New (1st) build: build liebig or buy this shotgun

[Simmons76]

So think I have the boiler portion of my new build pretty much figured out (15.5 gal keg, use my brew rig burner setup to get started), now need to decide on the condensing apparatus. Looking for mostly flavored spirits, whiskey, brandy, etc out of this setup. Sweated many a copper joints, so could head to supplyhouse or local home improvement store and get copper tubing and fittings to easily make what I need. But, for not a lot more, could also buy something pre-fabricated like this:

2" SS shotgun, 15.7" long, ebay

Seems that although SS is less conductive than copper, this 15" long shotgun could perform better than a homemade liebig. Not sure though, that's why I'm asking. Just thinking if I can get that 15" shotgun for around $100, vs the cost of sourcing the liebig parts, and if it is a bit more future-proof, than no problem spending a little more to get something right the first time.

Let me know if anyone has experience from this vendor. Looks fairly new to the home distilling scene, and welds look fantastic on their equipment. Their shotgun is baffled inside too, so would think this would be very efficient.

[Chauncey]

That shotgun gonna have way more knock down power than a liebig condenser, ifn you can afford it then you got alot of condensing power at yer disposal and it will serve you well on any still you put it on. What I'm saying is i vote shotty.

[zed255]

Just my opinion here, but I see guys touting the raw knockdown power of a shotgun without the qualifying factor of length. A shotgun has a lot of knockdown power per unit length. A suitably sized Liebig will also provide excellent knockdown. Everyone makes it sound like you have to have the shotgun.

That said if you need to shorter length then go for it, otherwise 36"-48" of Liebig will condense almost anything a hobbiest can reasonably throw at it. Besides, if gas fired you need to get your outlet away from your burner which is a point in favour of the Liebig. The shotgun is just a parallel Liebig really, gaining its perceived performance by simply allowing more dwell time for vapour because of the multiple parallel paths.

[Simmons76]

Exactly, just measuring it out a bit and with direct fire I do need to get the outlet away from the flame, so might just go with a 40" ish Liebig. Didn't really feel like sourcing all of the parts separately, but the 'kits' on ebay and the like are not very cheap. I looked a bit, but did not see a real solid build thread with links to cheap suppliers.

[Chauncey]

My 36 inch liebig got left behind for a 18 inch shotgun. Just saying if its in the budget its future proofing. No hate on the liebig its great but imo a shotty is the large tits.

[Saltbush Bill]

I say go the nice long liebig......shotguns are overrated bling.
Get the booze well away from the fire at the same time.

[Simmons76]

Now, to find someone who sells the whole Liebig deal (column with TC fitting, fittings & customizable length) and I'd be all set. Maybe go shotgun when I go electric conversion a bit down the road. Keeping that in back of my mind as I plan this first build (to do as little as possible over again).

[Sailman]

My vote is going to go for the shotgun condenser. Just because you have a shotgun condenser doesn't mean that you can't get the distilled spirit far enough away from the flame. I use a 2 inch to 1/2 inch reducer on the end of my shotgun then if you need to you can add a 45 and a short length of copper pipe. This can be achieved by adding some PTFE tape to secure it in place.

[Deplorable]

Another vote here for the shotgun.
My liebig is in the closet and will get recycled into something else in the future.
I run propane heat under a 13 gallon milk can boiler, 2 inch copper modular CCVM/pot still and a 20" shotgun. There are plenty of simple ways to resolve getting the likker away from the flame. I use a 18 inch peice of 1/2 copper pipe to extend the reach of the output end of the condenser. Easy peasy.
Another tidy benefit of a shotgun in a well planned modular kit is the ability to store the entire kit in the boiler, and the boiler in your fermenter. In my case, a Brute trash can. Roll that into the corner of the garage, and its very inconspicuous.

[Deplorable]

My vote is going to go for the shotgun condenser. Just because you have a shotgun condenser doesn't mean that you can't get the distilled spirit far enough away from the flame. I use a 2 inch to 1/2 inch reducer on the end of my shotgun then if you need to you can add a 45 and a short length of copper pipe. This can be achieved by adding some PTFE tape to secure it in place.
IMG_20200410_173302.jpg

This is similar to what I do, but I simply peened a dimple in the slip join on my extension. Friction holds it in place and no leaks

[Simmons76]

Thanks guys, great feedback! Given this, and the fact I want to be as future proof as possible, and have gotten now multiple responses saying they ditched the Liebig for a shotgun, I think I’ll go that route! Now, to probably a bigger issue, sourcing the various fittings to put it all together. Thinking I will most likely put a 6” TC ferrule on my keg to start, and source a pretty cheap 6”-2” or 6”-3” reducer. That I’ve found pretty cheap. It’s the column piece then, preferably with the 2” or 3” tc ferrule attached (or I can solder too np), and the elbows/adapters to get to the shotgun, and the 2” to 1/2” reducer cap on the end to get to 1/2” copper pipe for the exit. Anywhere y’all have found to source this stuff? I will prob go with that 2” x 15 or 20” stainless shotgun.

[Deplorable]

Fereules and clamps are available all over the internet. Glacier Tanks, Still Dragon, Amazon, flea Bay, etc. All the copper you can source at the local plumbing supply warehouse or big box store.
There are many different ways to outfit your boiler so I'd suggest making sure you know exactly how you want it laid out before you go chopping holes in it.
There are lots of build threads on boilers here, and everyone has an opinion. Have fun and take your time to get it right the first time.

[Simmons76]

Thanks! Thinking 6” tc for column attachment (via reducer of course), and then the biggest fill port tc I can fit (maybe 3”?) with a portion of the upper handle skirt cut away. For now. Then later add a tc or two down low for electric element and/or drain. Again, hoping to get the top end cut up and future proof, then do the bottom end later with elec conversion.

[Deplorable]

If I were me, running gas, I'd leave the sanke fitting, and put a 5 or 6 inch fill port beside it with most of the skirt cut away less the grab handles. Then I'd add a 1.5" ferrule for a thermometer port in or near the top of the boiler, and a couple of 2" ferrules just off the bottom skirt. One for a ball valve drain, and one for a future electric heating element.

But, a 6" or 8" ferrule on center with a cone reducer to 2 or 3" for the riser/column works to. However, to get a big fill opening to reduce spills while filling, you'll find yourself taking the head off and pouring in that way, so if you think your going to be wanting to refill without breaking down, leave the 2" there and add a 6" fill port to the top between the 2" on center, and the flange.
You can always upgrade to a 3" still with a 3"X2" reducer.

[Deplorable]

If I were me, running gas, I'd leave the sanke fitting, and put a 5 or 6 inch fill port beside it with most of the skirt cut away less the grab handles. Then I'd add a 1.5" ferrule for a thermometer port in or near the top of the boiler, and a couple of 2" ferrules just off the bottom skirt. One for a ball valve drain, and one for a future electric heating element.

But, a 6" or 8" ferrule on center with a cone reducer to 2 or 3" for the riser/column works to. However, to get a big fill opening to reduce spills while filling, you'll find yourself taking the head off and pouring in that way, so if you think your going to be wanting to refill without breaking down, leave the 2" there and add a 6" fill port to the top between the 2" on center, and the flange.
You can always upgrade to a 3" still with a 3"X2" reducer.

Basically, if I were building a keg boiler, it'd be almost identical to my 13 gallon milk can set up, aside from wanting a larger drain valve and a big fill port so I don't have to remove the still head to pour from buckets. Otherwise I can pump into it from the 1.5" thermometer fitting in the top.

[Simmons76]

Thanks! That sounds like a good alternative. Just want to have as much done at once if I take it to the local welder. The bigger question is it a mistake to go 15.5 gal as opposed to something bigger/future proof as far as size...

[Deplorable]

Kegs seem to be the most popular size for our hobby. Go too big, and smaller runs are out of the question. To date, my spirit runs have all be 5 to 6 gallons. The result of two stripping runs, or one ferment.
Bigger boiler means bigger ferments.
How much liquor do you want or need? You can build up a good stock with a 15 gallon boiler and a 50 gallon fermenter.

[Simmons76]

How much liquor do you want or need? You can build up a good stock with a 15 gallon boiler and a 50 gallon fermenter.

Then that's exactly what I'll do. Don't need a ton of likker, and feel I will be more into making smaller runs of different flavors anyway, experimenting. So 15.5 it is! I do have my decent all grain brewing setup with 15 gal mash tun and 20 gal boil kettle (15gal keggle HLT). So that should get some good use too for this endeavor.

[Simmons76]

Next big question, anyone have some 2 or 3" fittings/pipe laying around they want to unload? I get a great rate thru work for UPS and you could help this newbie out and I'll email you a label to drop off a box at your local UPS store??!!

Prob just need a few elbows and a column, and one of those sweet 2" TC to 1/2" copper females would be the icing on the cake!!

[Twisted Brick]

It’s the column piece then, preferably with the 2” or 3” tc ferrule attached (or I can solder too np), and the elbows/adapters to get to the shotgun, and the 2” to 1/2” reducer cap on the end to get to 1/2” copper pipe for the exit. Anywhere y’all have found to source this stuff? I will prob go with that 2” x 15 or 20” stainless shotgun.

I get my copper fittings from these guys, mostly 2x1/2" reducers like the one you need. Last order arrived 3 days after ordering online.

One more vote for going with the shotty. Storage and compactness advantages aside, a shotty is certainly more than just bling as it scales to the kinds of stripping power that can be put into a keg. The faster one can strip the volume of a keg the less time the run takes. I think Deplorable mentioned he 'hit his shotty with 100k btu's and couldn't overpower it'.

Here's a handy (graphic) list of all the parts that you'll need to build your shotty:
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[ezlle71]

Not trying to be devils advocate but that shotgun he has shared a link to is stainless steel. IIRC stainless doesn't have the thermal conductivity that copper does. Length of that shotgun seems suspect and i can build a copper Liebig wayyyy cheaper than that shotgun and do everything it can do. I haven't ran a Liebig in several years so I feel i am unbiased. I'd always prefer build over buy but that's me.

edit: if i were to build a shotty, I'd buy the ez solder plates from twisted, and it would be copper

[Simmons76]

Awesome, thanks for the links! As for the shotgun though, I think I'll save all the sweating and sourcing all of those parts cause like I said in the initial post I can get that nicely welded SS one in either 15 or 20" length for $80 or $100 (plus some shipping). Then it's all done, and don't have to worry about piecing it all together. So here's the plan then (as assisted by you all!):

Keg boiler - Initially keep the 2" sankey fitting on it, and add a 6" TC ferrule offset as fill/cleanout access. Need to get keg, 6" TC fitting, 6" cap (not sure if they make clear ones but that'd be sweet), and 2 & 6" clamps. Might put a 1/2" NPT as low as I can get it to add a dial thermometer to know wash temp. Look at costs to add additional (2) 2" TC ferrules down low for future, or add later (depend on cost for welder), or use pull thru and silver solder myself.

Column - Source about 20" of 2" copper pipe, and get a TC coupling for one end (to boiler TC), and 90 deg elbow on other end to 4" ish straight coupler to another 90 deg elbow angled at about 45 deg. to another 4" ish straight copper coupler piece with TC on the end of that one. Then that gets tri clamped to the SS shotgun condenser, call it 20" long, to the 2" to 1/2" coupling on the end to a piece of 1/2" pipe down to where I want the outlet. Water fittings i'll most likely adapt to use my one keg (brewing HLT) as a water bath and my pump to recirculate during the run. Add pre-frozen large ice blocks as needed.

edit: Or take advice above and just build my own copper one! But really, this is just one thing in looking at the builds that I just have no interest in doing. If anyone sells these as a kit (where they've figured out all the kinks that you have to figure out building a one-off) I'd be all for paying a good bit extra cash to have it come all made up.

What am I missing?

[Twisted Brick]

If you get the stainless shotgun condenser, make sure you have a ferrule welded on each end. If the output end comes with a collector, you'll only need a ferrule on the input end. Your decision to go with a copper shotgun (whether you build or buy) would be sound. Like ezlle71 mentioned, stainless steel has about 3% of the level of conductivity of copper and is not ideally suited for a condenser.
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thermal-conductivity-metals-table.png (11.1 KiB) Viewed 2625 times

If you would like information on end plates/baffles, a complete kit, or a complete copper shotgun made for you, please PM me. Here are a few pics of shotguns I made for members in December.
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[Bee]

With a Type L copper 2" shotgun body, I would not bother putting ferrules on the collection end. The 2"-1/2" reducer I have is a hand tight slip fit over the end of the 2" tube.

[RC Al]

I find my massive liebig is slightly painful because of the length, however more painful is getting the output of a shotty away from my gas flame with zero chance of a vapour leak (sorry guys, a snug fit dosent cut it for me and forget an open end into a funnel), ends up being lots extra bits and $$

Just setting one up at the moment, what a pita

[Twisted Brick]

With a Type L copper 2" shotgun body, I would not bother putting ferrules on the collection end. The 2"-1/2" reducer I have is a hand tight slip fit over the end of the 2" tube.

I would be concerned about heat causing the collector to expand and fall directly onto a glass collection jar.

[Deplorable]

With a Type L copper 2" shotgun body, I would not bother putting ferrules on the collection end. The 2"-1/2" reducer I have is a hand tight slip fit over the end of the 2" tube.

I would be concerned about heat causing the collector to expand and fall directly onto a glass collection jar.

+1 a "slip fit" reducer on something that contracts and expands with heat cycling is a fools errand. Especially over a mason jar of high proof ethanol. Not worth the savings of a couple of ferrules, gasket, and clamp.

[Bee]

Over the course of 8 runs it has stayed tight. From 35F room temp to the end of the condenser being hot to the touch, it's been tight. They seem to expand together at the same rate.

[Bee]

I find my massive liebig is slightly painful because of the length, however more painful is getting the output of a shotty away from my gas flame with zero chance of a vapour leak (sorry guys, a snug fit dosent cut it for me and forget an open end into a funnel), ends up being lots extra bits and $$

You should put your collection jar inside a 5gal bucket in case fumes come out of the condenser.

[The Baker]

I find my massive liebig is slightly painful because of the length, however more painful is getting the output of a shotty away from my gas flame with zero chance of a vapour leak (sorry guys, a snug fit doesn't cut it for me and forget an open end into a funnel), ends up being lots extra bits and $$

You should put your collection jar inside a 5gal bucket in case fumes come out of the condenser.

It is handy if the jar overflows.
Don't ask me how I know.

But would it help that much if there were fumes???
How?

And how is the length of the condenser a problem?
If it is heavy and unstable support it, a string from a rafter is enough.
It (or the tube from it) should certainly be long enough to take the outflow away from the flame,
I had an eight foot tube once, because I did not want to cut it...

Geoff