How To Smooth Out Water Pressure

[CopperFiend]

Dear Hivemind,

I am running a 50mm x 1m copper flute packed with SPP and a shotgun dephlag to a shotgun condenser. I am on bore hole water which unfortunately fluctuates in pressure over about a 5 minute cycle. There is a spurt of high pressure, then it very gradually drops over 5min, then really drops for about 5 seconds, then goes high pressure again.

I am sure all of you know what his will do to maintaining a stable reflux equilibrium. I am not keen to convert to CCVM as I dont think it will suit for me (with boiler there is no room at the top to lift a coil as the roof is low (and theres no chance I'm stilling outside!)).

My question for you lovely people is, are there any solutions to my problem that allow me to keep my current setup? For example pressure valves that would smooth this cycle out? Unfortunately I dont really have room for a water tank and a pump but if that's the only option then maybe I could have a 120L tub in there.

Thank you all very much in advance.
Copper

[Teddysad]

Have you considered a garden irrigation pressure reducer, or the same type of thing used in RV’s

[NZChris]

If you have enough height, a header tank with a ballcock.

[CopperFiend]

Have you considered a garden irrigation pressure reducer, or the same type of thing used in RV’s

Thanks, never seen these before! Would they be able to deal with the drop in pressure as well as reducing the higher pressures?

[CopperFiend]

If you have enough height, a header tank with a ballcock.

That's a good idea, I suppose I could put a tank in the loft and run hose from that down to the still with a valve to control coolant speed... plumbing that in would be unpleasant

[NZChris]

Have you considered a garden irrigation pressure reducer, or the same type of thing used in RV’s

Thanks, never seen these before! Would they be able to deal with the drop in pressure as well as reducing the higher pressures?

The clue is in the name. The supply always has to be higher than what the reducer is set for.

[Alcophile]

I have a unit sold by Still Spirits, but it would be easy to make one. It's a container fed from mains water via a float valve (smaller version of the sort of thing in any header tank/cistern. There is then a pump from this to the still controlled by a needle valve (though motor speed control might be an alternative). The needle valve on the SS unit is extremely sensitive and this could be improved.

[zed255]

I use a pressure reducing regulator (like one used for an RV) and can adjust the pressure to make cheap needle valves more useable. It also greatly reduces, though does not completely eliminate, pressure changes due to water use age on other branches.

[Deplorable]

Another pressure regulator user here. I reduce my city water pressure from 55psi to 35psi at my water manifold. Before I started using it I'd have fluctuations from other water usage in the house.

[Kindafrench]

Maybe a combination of an accumulation tank followed by a pressure reducer. Should smooth out almost any pressure fluctuation and doesn‘t need electricity.

[CopperFiend]

Thank you everyone, some things to think about indeed. I have found a 200L water tank in the loft which supplies the electric shower we never use. I am thinking of boring a 3/4" hole in that and putting a hosepipe quick release fitting on it so I can easily hook up when I'm going to do some distilling, then not have pipes down from the loft (the wife would have a fit) when I dont need them.

Would I need a pressure reducer if the drop from the loft is around 6m? I currently have a y- connector which has a ball valve on each leg, one goes to the dephlag, one to the product condenser. Would you guys recommend a needle valve for the dephlag one?

Thanks for all your help,
Copper

[Kindafrench]

Each meter in height is about 0,1 bar pressure, if it‘s an open / vented tank. So I would say no, you don‘t need a pressure reducer. It‘s more the other way around, because most of them need something like >4 bars to work properly.

[CopperFiend]

Each meter in height is about 0,1 bar pressure, if it‘s an open / vented tank. So I would say no, you don‘t need a pressure reducer. It‘s more the other way around, because most of them need something like >4 bars to work properly.

Damn, so I'm looking at less than a bar of pressure. 4 bar sounds high though! I'll check what the max pressure of the system is now.

[CopperFiend]

So, current max pressure is 2bar of my bore hole. That is absolutely ample for knocking down 10kw of pot distillation stripping run power. I wont be running the reflux at anything like that. Do you reckon 0.6-1bar would be enough?

[Butch27]

So, current max pressure is 2bar of my bore hole. That is absolutely ample for knocking down 10kw of pot distillation stripping run power. I wont be running the reflux at anything like that. Do you reckon 0.6-1bar would be enough?

I think that would be fine so long as your condenser is big enough. If I were you(I'm not so do as you please) I would just get one of those pressure reducing valves and go with that. It should take care of most of the problem but maybe not quite all. The sharp drop in pressure just as the pump is about to cut in could be caused by too much air pressure in the water tank. Turn the pump off. Run water until the water pressure in the tank is below the cut in pressure. Find the schrader valve (looks like a tire valve) and use a pressure gauge to check the pressure. The pressure should be 2 or 3 psi(I will let you figure out how many Bar that is) less than the pressure the pump is set to cut in at.

[HDNB]

use a bump pump.

i'm on a well too. so my cooling is a tank of water, feeds the bump pump and then through the condensors, back through an aluminium radiator with electric fans to cool the water before returning to the tank.

works great knocks down a ton of heat.

the bump pump is a centrifugal pump with a regulator built in. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mast ... p.html#srp

prolly a ton cheaper in the USA

[Kindafrench]

Each meter in height is about 0,1 bar pressure, if it‘s an open / vented tank. So I would say no, you don‘t need a pressure reducer. It‘s more the other way around, because most of them need something like >4 bars to work properly.

Damn, so I'm looking at less than a bar of pressure. 4 bar sounds high though! I'll check what the max pressure of the system is now.

Here in France it‘s often 6 to 8 bar on the supply pipe outside of the house. Indoor it‘s 2.5 ish, depending on your settings.
But that‘s not helpful. Sounds like a waste of energy, but if you keep your pump running, let‘s say by letting the cooling water run back into the well, you‘d save water, but spend some money on electricity. So hard to say. The air cooled water tank thing sounds good to me. A small pump, a fan and some spare car parts and you‘re there.

[Birrofilo]

I put a plastic bowl in my kitchen basin.
I fill that with water, and I put a fountain-garden pump into the water. The pump pumps the water to the dephlegmator and the final condenser. The kitchen tap sends water at the basin at a little more than the flow of the pump. The plastic bowl has an overflow hole in the upper part.

The pump is always immersed in water in the plastic bowl and it pumps the water, presumably, with constant pressure to the dephlegmator. The level in the plastic bowl is also at constant level, in case that influences the pump working.
The hot water coming from the dephlegmator goes in the kitchen basin, besides the plastic basin, and goes down the drain without heating up the water in the plastic bowl.

[CopperFiend]

The bump pump idea sounds like one to pursue, thanks!

I was wondering, if I have a pump trying to force water through the system but then use the valve to choke down the flow to the dephlag, does that mean I will do damage to the pump? Never used a water pump with a valve before so would be worried I'd do some damage, though I know a lot of you guys do it all the time.

Cheers,
Copper

[The Baker]

The constant pressure ( "bump" ) pump is designed to cope with fluctuations and variations in demand; with restrictions.

Other pumps are often not.

You can set up a bypass to adjust pressure on the pump.
Put a tee in the line from the pump outlet.
Fit a tap in the line from the tee, which will return excess water to the water source.

Geoff

[CopperFiend]

The constant pressure ( "bump" ) pump is designed to cope with fluctuations and variations in demand; with restrictions.

Other pumps are often not.

You can set up a bypass to adjust pressure on the pump.
Put a tee in the line from the pump outlet.
Fit a tap in the line from the tee, which will return excess water to the water source.

Geoff

Right, so in my situation with the tank in the loft I'm not sure the pump would be capable of pumping it back all that way up and still servicing the still's requirements. I could have the overflow of the pump going down the drain.... but that does seem wasteful. To be fair, water is free to me as it comes from the ground (obviously) but does cost some electricity to pump it up... and it is bad for the environment to waste a large quantity of water I suppose.

Copper

[The Baker]

You can of course water the lawn and the garden with your overflow.
And if you wanted to get busy you could install a tank (outside...) between the height of the toilets and the loft;
fill that with the overflow and operate the toilets from it...?

Geoff

[Butch27]

Is a pressure regulating valve not expensive enough and not enough work for your liking?

[CopperFiend]

Is a pressure regulating valve not expensive enough and not enough work for your liking?

Haha, I wish it were that simple! If the pressure just fluctuated a lot in the high end that would be fine but I think the sudden drop down to virtually no pressure every 5 mins won't be sorted by a valve! Unless you know of a valve that can keep pressure high as well as keep it at a stable pressure?

[Butch27]

Is a pressure regulating valve not expensive enough and not enough work for your liking?

Haha, I wish it were that simple! If the pressure just fluctuated a lot in the high end that would be fine but I think the sudden drop down to virtually no pressure every 5 mins won't be sorted by a valve! Unless you know of a valve that can keep pressure high as well as keep it at a stable pressure?

That nasty quick drop to almost zero just before the pump starts, I'm pretty sure is due to an excess amount of air on the air side of the bladder in your pressure tank. I tried to explain the procedure to remedy the problem above.

...I would just get one of those pressure reducing valves and go with that. It should take care of most of the problem but maybe not quite all. The sharp drop in pressure just as the pump is about to cut in could be caused by too much air pressure in the water tank. Turn the pump off. Run water until the water pressure in the tank is below the cut in pressure. Find the schrader valve (looks like a tire valve) and use a pressure gauge to check the pressure. The pressure should be 2 or 3 psi(I will let you figure out how many Bar that is) less than the pressure the pump is set to cut in at.

Do you have tools? If so are you reasonably handy with them? Are you familiar with your pressure system? Does the pressure system have a working pressure gauge on it? I can try walk you through this but you have to want to do it.

[Butch27]

The other bonus is that the drop to zero will be gone when you are in the shower. Your wife will think you are a rock star.

[CopperFiend]

Is a pressure regulating valve not expensive enough and not enough work for your liking?

Haha, I wish it were that simple! If the pressure just fluctuated a lot in the high end that would be fine but I think the sudden drop down to virtually no pressure every 5 mins won't be sorted by a valve! Unless you know of a valve that can keep pressure high as well as keep it at a stable pressure?

That nasty quick drop to almost zero just before the pump starts, I'm pretty sure is due to an excess amount of air on the air side of the bladder in your pressure tank. I tried to explain the procedure to remedy the problem above.

...I would just get one of those pressure reducing valves and go with that. It should take care of most of the problem but maybe not quite all. The sharp drop in pressure just as the pump is about to cut in could be caused by too much air pressure in the water tank. Turn the pump off. Run water until the water pressure in the tank is below the cut in pressure. Find the schrader valve (looks like a tire valve) and use a pressure gauge to check the pressure. The pressure should be 2 or 3 psi(I will let you figure out how many Bar that is) less than the pressure the pump is set to cut in at.

Do you have tools? If so are you reasonably handy with them? Are you familiar with your pressure system? Does the pressure system have a working pressure gauge on it? I can try walk you through this but you have to want to do it.

Thanks, I absolutely want to fix it if there's an issue. I always just assumed this was normal for bore holes. I have purged the air from the little pressure tank many times in pursuit of this but that doesnt seem to make much difference. I will have a look for the Schrader valve tomorrow and see if I can follow your advice. I'll check back in when I've inevitably failed!

[Butch27]

Maybe take a picture of the system, the tank in particular that you can post up as well in case there is something not typical about it and I don't understand fully what is going on. It is certainly not my intent to steer you wrong here.

[HDNB]

the bump p ump has a buit in regulator and it shuts down when it gets to preset...so if you want 60psi you get 60 all the time. when you close the tap it just shuts down

[Butch27]

the bump p ump has a buit in regulator and it shuts down when it gets to preset...so if you want 60psi you get 60 all the time. when you close the tap it just shuts down

Why not just fix the system he has for just a little adjustment? Then add a pressure regulating valve and he will have steady pressure to run his condensers. If he needs more pressure I will help him with that also. Again, no cost, just a little tweaking. The pressure regulating valve is $35 to $40. I think the link above that I clicked on showed a pump costing $370 or $380. Then you still have to install it and people in the house have to listen to the damn thing scream the whole time you are stillin. Some people in this hobby have way too much spare cash and do not care how they spend it and a lot don't even care if they have a buck put away for a rainy day.