Oak Stills condensers
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Oak Stills condensers
All,
I'm thinking about buying an Oak Stills 3" flute column to go on top of my 16 gallon kettle (w/5500w internal element & Auber controller.) From what I'm seeing they are a good bargain and others have spoken positively about their quality (though I'm sure they cut corners somewhere.)
My concern is their condensers, both the reflux and product ones, seem to run pretty small internal tubes, and not as many of them as some others. See attached (their) pic of the product condenser which is a 2" shotgun, 450mm long and has five 8mm internal tubes.
What does the braintrust think? Enough surface area to strip pretty aggressively? Are vapor speeds going to get away from me in those small tubes?
My math puts that at about 251mm sq of area, or about .39 sq in which seems tight, but it does nearly double the .2 that my 1/2" Liebig has. (all measurements are ballpark based on the nominal.)
I'd love to build my own shotguns, soldering copper isn't an issues, but time and the other tooling are.
Thanks!
I'm thinking about buying an Oak Stills 3" flute column to go on top of my 16 gallon kettle (w/5500w internal element & Auber controller.) From what I'm seeing they are a good bargain and others have spoken positively about their quality (though I'm sure they cut corners somewhere.)
My concern is their condensers, both the reflux and product ones, seem to run pretty small internal tubes, and not as many of them as some others. See attached (their) pic of the product condenser which is a 2" shotgun, 450mm long and has five 8mm internal tubes.
What does the braintrust think? Enough surface area to strip pretty aggressively? Are vapor speeds going to get away from me in those small tubes?
My math puts that at about 251mm sq of area, or about .39 sq in which seems tight, but it does nearly double the .2 that my 1/2" Liebig has. (all measurements are ballpark based on the nominal.)
I'd love to build my own shotguns, soldering copper isn't an issues, but time and the other tooling are.
Thanks!
Re: Oak Stills condensers
Yes it is a bit lean on surface area.
Could have easily fit at least 2 more through tubes in that shell.
Could have easily fit at least 2 more through tubes in that shell.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Re: Oak Stills condensers
8mm might be a bit small but you can probably get by as the 450 mm length should be long enough.
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
It is good for you to question the performance of a piece of stilling equipment prior to purchasing it. Two main criticisms of that condenser (apart from the limiting total condensing area of the vapor tubes) are that it is made of stainless steel and its propensity for smearing. IMO, stainless steel's low conductivity paired with the small vapor tubes may well represent a limiting factor in your stripping speed, and longer (fuel) run times.TwoSheds wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:44 am
I'm thinking about buying an Oak Stills 3" flute column to go on top of my 16 gallon kettle (w/5500w internal element & Auber controller.) From what I'm seeing they are a good bargain and others have spoken positively about their quality (though I'm sure they cut corners somewhere.)
Thanks!
The more copper you can incorporate into your vapor path, the better. You might consider buying or building a copper shotgun , which would cost a little more up front, but provide an element of efficiency and spirit quality. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
I bought the same 3" column at end of 2020 and was surprised when it arrived and the condenser had 4 x 12mm tubes. I expected 5 tubes like the other 2" x 450mm condensers they list on the auction site and their website (like the PC photo you posted). The explanation given was the design changed from 5 x 8mm tubes to 4 x 12mm tubes because they perform as well and are easier to clean. I don't know about the relative performance but the 12mm tubes are easy to clean so that's a plus.
Also, the current 3" SS flute listing describes it as having a 2" X 400mm condenser - apparently is now 50mm/2" shorter than when I ordered. Website still says 450mm.
Bottom line, if you haven't already ordered, ask a lot of questions first: length, number of tubes and diameter. If not acceptable, perhaps negotiate more/less $$ to get what you want. The 450mm 4x12mm tube version has worked good so far. With 2500-3000W and 2-3 plates reflux it needs only a trickle of water. Haven't tried it for stripping yet.
Also, the current 3" SS flute listing describes it as having a 2" X 400mm condenser - apparently is now 50mm/2" shorter than when I ordered. Website still says 450mm.
Bottom line, if you haven't already ordered, ask a lot of questions first: length, number of tubes and diameter. If not acceptable, perhaps negotiate more/less $$ to get what you want. The 450mm 4x12mm tube version has worked good so far. With 2500-3000W and 2-3 plates reflux it needs only a trickle of water. Haven't tried it for stripping yet.
Re: Oak Stills condensers
The 8 mm is a bit small and definitely more of a nuisance to fabricate. 4/ 12 mm tubes is much less labor and minimizes the likelihood of pin hole leaks.
7/ 10 mm holes is a good compromise and adds a good amount of added surface area.
Sort of confused about the "easier to clean" excuse?
I guess it depends what a feller is using to clean with?
7/ 10 mm holes is a good compromise and adds a good amount of added surface area.
Sort of confused about the "easier to clean" excuse?
I guess it depends what a feller is using to clean with?
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Is there a large difference in price between a 3 inch and a 4 inch Flute/ Plated Column ? Ive spent enough time baby sitting a still to know that bigger diameter = faster take off.......4 inch was slow enough for me.
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Just gonna jump on my soap box here againSaltbush Bill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:31 am Ive spent enough time baby sitting a still to know that bigger diameter = faster take off.......4 inch was slow enough for me.
Remember , just getting a bigger diameter = faster take off …only if you increase the power to the boiler . Which also means increasing your cooling system .
So you are upscaling the whole system
Simply sticking a bigger diameter column on your boiler without changing anything else will not = faster takeoff
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Only one I can recall fooling with a 3 is Nchooch I think.
He built his and settled on the 3" because 4" copper was appreciably more expensive.
If you're in the 2.5 to 3 liter per hour collection speed camp, he reckoned the 3 ran just fine.
Don't really know why it went from 2" being the rage for diameter and 3 being huge for VMs, then bypassing 3" for plated columns and straight into the 4" being the desired diameter.
Maybe a bit more elbow room to get the plate assemblies installed for the fat finger builders? Not sure?
He built his and settled on the 3" because 4" copper was appreciably more expensive.
If you're in the 2.5 to 3 liter per hour collection speed camp, he reckoned the 3 ran just fine.
Don't really know why it went from 2" being the rage for diameter and 3 being huge for VMs, then bypassing 3" for plated columns and straight into the 4" being the desired diameter.
Maybe a bit more elbow room to get the plate assemblies installed for the fat finger builders? Not sure?
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Your right Yummy, i shouldnt have made it seem so simple. Was trying to point out that a four inch might be better value for money.
Re: Oak Stills condensers
I love my 4” column and not many had the opportunity to run a 4” packed column side by side with a 3” flute but I did with Mash Rookie. He helped me built the reflux and product condenser for my still so I brought down some feints to his place for a cleaning run then we ran both his 3” and my 4” side by side. I will say I was very pleased the the performance.Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:31 am Is there a large difference in price between a 3 inch and a 4 inch Flute/ Plated Column ? Ive spent enough time baby sitting a still to know that bigger diameter = faster take off.......4 inch was slow enough for me.
Walkin Wolf sold me a 4” stainless steel column used in the diary industry with ferrules on both ends, the rest of my column is copper.He built his and settled on the 3" because 4" copper was appreciably more expensive.
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Pretty sure thats the main reason, As you know, back before shiny commercial stainless ones came on the scene, they were all hand built.
A 4inch plate tree and down comers made with very basic tools and little experience was fiddly enough without going down a couple of sizes.
Re: Oak Stills condensers
Yeah trying to remember, but I think that's right Bill. Or at the very least part of it.Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:32 amPretty sure thats the main reason, As you know, back before shiny commercial stainless ones came on the scene, they were all hand built.
A 4inch plate tree and down comers made with very basic tools and little experience was fiddly enough without going down a couple of sizes.
For me on my mini, inline thumper build, at the time I just wanted the most amount of liquid I could get without flooding each chamber. Also the way I solved my vapor path/circuit I needed the extra real estate.
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Re: Oak Stills condensers
Thanks for the replies all! I did in fact order the 3" flute with the expectation that I may upgrade the PC with a homebuilt shotgun in the long run, but knowing that the price on the package is still a good deal ignoring that.
I landed on 3" after much research and consideration as the right balance of cost and speed for me. I've got 5500w internal on an insulated 16 gal boiler so we'll see how hard I can push the stock condensers and go from there.
Interestingly, their 4" column comes with the same condenser...
I'll post back with updates. Glad to hear others have had success with these. I'm looking forward to trying it out!
Thanks again to those who replied.
I landed on 3" after much research and consideration as the right balance of cost and speed for me. I've got 5500w internal on an insulated 16 gal boiler so we'll see how hard I can push the stock condensers and go from there.
Interestingly, their 4" column comes with the same condenser...
I'll post back with updates. Glad to hear others have had success with these. I'm looking forward to trying it out!
Thanks again to those who replied.
Re: Oak Stills condensers
Also, one thing I found appealing was Oak Stills 3" bubble plate. It has 3 caps and a downcomer rather than just two (or even one!) that I've seen in other designs. Not sure exactly what that will translate to in performance but more just has to be better! (jk lol)
Re: Oak Stills condensers
A follow up on this… I bought the column which included this product condenser. It was a good enough value that I figured if I replaced the condenser down the road I’d still be ahead. Overall I like the setup, but…
The condenser seems to do a good job with spirit runs on the 3” column. On stripping runs I don’t feel like I can go much past 2750w, a mostly steady stream, but 10 gallons of wash are still dealt with in a little more than 2 hours.
So in the long run I’ll likely build a copper shotgun with 1/2” tubes (using baffles from someone who commented above) but this one will do the trick to get started.
BUT I think the Oak Stills 4” columns also come with this same product condenser. I feel like that would be too small, period. But that’s the opinion of a novice. YMMV.
The condenser seems to do a good job with spirit runs on the 3” column. On stripping runs I don’t feel like I can go much past 2750w, a mostly steady stream, but 10 gallons of wash are still dealt with in a little more than 2 hours.
So in the long run I’ll likely build a copper shotgun with 1/2” tubes (using baffles from someone who commented above) but this one will do the trick to get started.
BUT I think the Oak Stills 4” columns also come with this same product condenser. I feel like that would be too small, period. But that’s the opinion of a novice. YMMV.