soft copper vs 1/8 hard or 1/4 hard

[CarolinaShiner]

I'm about to order a 3 x 8 copper sheet in 20 oz from Mcmaster and Carr later this week for my copper pot still. I was looking for some input on the type of copper and what would best fit my needs. They sell soft copper as well as 1/8 hard and 1/4 hard. From what I've read soft copper means that it has already been annealed. I don't know much about copper so I was wondering which would be better for forming my boiler. Will the soft copper hold up as well as the 1/8 and 1/4 hard after the pot is built or is it just simply easier to form? In the descrption of the sheet it says the copper is non heat treatable. I wanted to ask for some advice from the professionals here before I spent $343 for a sheet of something I can't use or is much harder to use. I had planned on getting my copper sheets locally and actually did get a small sheet for the bottom of my boiler at a local metal supply but the next time I went back to them they acted like they were committing some sort of crime and wouldnt sell me any more. Thanks in advance for the help guys.

[pfshine]

I would go for the softest you can get to make it easy to shape. Did you tell the supplier you were making a still?

[CarolinaShiner]

No.. hell no. I just asked for sheet copper and they tokd me they didnt sell it. I guess the guy didn't realize I'd just bought a sheet there from a different guy 3 weeks before. Thanks for the advice though. So the soft will hold up as well as the hard? Just easier to shape?

[pfshine]

As you work it it will harden. If it starts to get too stiff just anneal it, and get back to working it. If I were you I would try to find the first guy that sold it to you.

[CarolinaShiner]

The local metal supply around here is really sketchy. They act like they don't wanna sell to anyone other than businesses. When you walk in they ask how they can help you, then when you bring up copper sheeting they look at you really funny and call a guy from the warehouse to come help you. I guess I got lucky the first time, but the second time the other guy told me straight out they didn't sell it. I just thought it would be best to get it online so I didn't get funny looks or an interrogation. I purchased my copper rivets and solder and flux from Mcmaster and Carr and was really happy with their service and delivery time. Other than shipping costs it seemed like a good option. Their prices (other than shipping) are a few dollars cheaper than the local guys too.

[MichiganCornhusker]

McMaster is a great company, I deal with them all the time.
Here is another one you might want to check out at least for the info they provide about copper sheet: http://www.quickshipmetals.com/copper/copper.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I used 16 oz, 0.0216" copper sheet for a 20 gallon boiler. It has held up very well for over a year of good use. But, using a heavier gauge, at least for the bottom, is a good call.

[S-Cackalacky]

I'm about to order a 3 x 8 copper sheet in 20 oz from Mcmaster and Carr later this week for my copper pot still. I was looking for some input on the type of copper and what would best fit my needs. They sell soft copper as well as 1/8 hard and 1/4 hard. From what I've read soft copper means that it has already been annealed. I don't know much about copper so I was wondering which would be better for forming my boiler. Will the soft copper hold up as well as the 1/8 and 1/4 hard after the pot is built or is it just simply easier to form? In the descrption of the sheet it says the copper is non heat treatable. I wanted to ask for some advice from the professionals here before I spent $343 for a sheet of something I can't use or is much harder to use. I had planned on getting my copper sheets locally and actually did get a small sheet for the bottom of my boiler at a local metal supply but the next time I went back to them they acted like they were committing some sort of crime and wouldnt sell me any more. Thanks in advance for the help guys.

Not here to offer advice - just wondering what is meant by "1/8 and 1/4 hard". Is that the thickness as in heavy copper plate?

[CarolinaShiner]

Thanks Cornhusker. Im shooting for a 25 gallon boiler with a 10-11 gallon thumper. The sheet for the bottom is 48 oz as per the advice Ms. Corene gave me. I was planning on getting that 3x8 sheet in 20oz and using it for the rest of my boiler and thumper if my plans work out right. S Cackalacky I'm not EXACTLY sure what is meant by 1/8 or 1/4 hard but I have read that on several different websites. They offer it in both those forms as well as soft which says annealed in ( ) beside it. I thought copper was copper but all these options have brought on some confusion. The copper is offered in whatever size u want. You can get the same 20 oz in soft, 1/8 hard or 1/4 hard.

[pfshine]

It the temper it has.http://www.copper.org/applications/arch ... intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks Cornhusker. Im shooting for a 25 gallon boiler with a 10-11 gallon thumper. The sheet for the bottom is 48 oz as per the advice Ms. Corene gave me. I was planning on getting that 3x8 sheet in 20oz and using it for the rest of my boiler and thumper if my plans work out right. S Cackalacky I'm not EXACTLY sure what is meant by 1/8 or 1/4 hard but I have read that on several different websites. They offer it in both those forms as well as soft which says annealed in ( ) beside it. I thought copper was copper but all these options have brought on some confusion. The copper is offered in whatever size u want. You can get the same 20 oz in soft, 1/8 hard or 1/4 hard.

OK, I guess I understand now. It's to do with how hard it is - NOT the thickness. Was thinking you gonna need a fork lift and some hellacious cutting tools for a 1/4" thick sheet of copper. Thanks, I'll go back to lurking now.

[CarolinaShiner]

I found that link today as well pfshine, before I posted this thread actually because I wanted to get as much info on my own before having to ask anybody. I still can't figure out which copper is the most common and best for makin a still though.

[pfshine]

Go with the softest stuff. As you work it it will harden. If you get the harder stuff you will need some sheet metal tools like a roller, or you will need to anneal the piss out of it to work it.

[Hound Dog]

I just used 16 and 20 oz copper for roofing. Don't know what hardness it is but it worked great. Been using the same boiler for a few years now. This can be your cheapest copper option also.

Honestly though, a stainless keg or small barrel would be cheaper and easier.

[CarolinaShiner]

Well here is a little update on the copper situation. Mcmaster's website had me misled just a little bit. The soft, 1/4 hard and 1/8 hard were all grouped together but according to the guy on the phone the thickness of the sheet is what determines the category. I ordered a 36x96 sheet of .027 and he said it was only available in the soft. He says that the thicker the sheet you order, the harder it will be. I guess that's the clarification I was looking for, or I just got shit on lol. Either way I have a sheet of 20 oz soft copper on the way. Let the games begin!

[moosemilk]

Made my pot from 16oz. And even with that had to anneal while working. It's very rigid now, lost count of how many runs...but average 2 a week for over a year now. No problems. Next build I will go thicker, on the bottom at least.

[GaPawn]

Well here is a little update on the copper situation. Mcmaster's website had me misled just a little bit. The soft, 1/4 hard and 1/8 hard were all grouped together but according to the guy on the phone the thickness of the sheet is what determines the category. I ordered a 36x96 sheet of .027 and he said it was only available in the soft. He says that the thicker the sheet you order, the harder it will be. I guess that's the clarification I was looking for, or I just got shit on lol. Either way I have a sheet of 20 oz soft copper on the way. Let the games begin!

I think the guy at McMaster got it wrong. I do not think the hardness they are referring to is a product of the thickness of the metal.

When I order gold and silver stock for repairing jewelry, I often have the option of buying either "dead soft" or "half hard" metals. The designations are a matter of how "work hardened" the metal is when you receive it. Or another way to think of it is how annealed the metal is. In silver and gold dead soft is exceedingly bendable, and is difficult for it to hold a straight line as you work with it. Half hard has a fair amount of stiffness, is much more difficult to bend, but keeps it's shape much better. If you need to bend and manipulate the metal into tight intricate curves dead soft would be better. But if you need it to hold it's shape to a greater degree, half hard is the answer.

In your case, I suspect you would rather have 1/8 or 1/4 hard copper, (depending on thickness) than soft copper to make a boiler. Sure the soft would be easier to bend and form, but it would also lose it's shape more easily, and dent more easily. The harder coppers would make nicer curves without getting all "wrinkly" and "wavy" from being "over worked" to get them into the shape you want.

Obviously the thicker the metal that you want, the softer you should consider ordering, if you plan to bend it. Except for maybe the base, which really won't need to be bent and would definitely benefit from being stiffer and heavier.

Just my humble opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Did you end up liking what they sent?

[CarolinaShiner]

I was pleased with the appearance of what they sent. Just recieved it yesterday. As this will be my first time working with forming copper, I surely hope this is what I need. I have a 24 by 24 sheet of 48 oz that I bought locally for the bottom and enough 20 oz to form the rest of my boiler and thumper. I originally asked the guy on the phone from Mcmaster for 1/4 hard and he assured me that it wasn't offered In 20 oz (.027). I hope he's correct and didn't just cost me a small fortune.

[BoomTown]

nothing to offer here, this time. Just being nosy and wanting to get the messages if more info floats through this thread...

Good luck with the build

[singlewhitemalt]

Get the cheapest. Don't worry about the hardness. Because, if you have a torch to solder then you have torch to anneal. Guttersupply.com seems to have the best price on copper sheet. A 3'x10' sheet of 16oz for ~$150 US. That's what I built my 12 gallon pot out of. It's 3 years and many runs old.