Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

In our view 30 gallons and under is considered hobby size. Do not bring anything larger than this to our site.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

6D95B1A8-19FE-48C2-BBA9-20860DBA5383.jpeg
Looking for some help deciding on which route is best to head down. Long time home brewer with a pretty decent all-grain setup w/ mash tun, etc. Have natural gas line running to my rig with an Auber PID controller which I use in on/off mode to control my direct fired mash tun. The Auber has a temp probe that sits T’d into the outlet of my recirculating pump, and sends an on/off signal to a Honeywell gas valve. Temp drops below the set point, valve opens and slowly heats the bottom of my tri-clad bottom mash tun all while the pump is recirculating the mash back to the top. Works great, and holds 150’ish mash temp no problem. Wondering I guess first if any of this is worth retrofitting into a direct fired boiler setup? Buy a keg, put on a condensing column, and maybe relocate the probe to control boiler temps? The other side of the brew rig has a high powered 12-tip wok burner which heats my mash water up very fast, then I transfer to the mash tun and use the lower powered burner there to slowly heat and control the mash temps. Anything I can re-use here?

Or, bite the bullet and utilize the 220v gas dryer outlet right inside the mud room off the garage and build up a new all-electric setup? Looking to distill primarily whiskey’s, gin, etc, so looking at the pot still route with basic Liebig setup to start out. Any help in directing me with my known equipment would be great! Thanks!
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by The Baker »

I guess there are good points in either set-up.
The best point about the gas is that it is already set up!

Geoff
The Baker
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Setsumi »

a dedicated boiler for distilling is better to me than sharing my BK. that said i am converting to electric and once my brew rig is also electric i might reconsider.

you talk about temprature, for mashing it is important BUT does not work in distilling. get yourself a voltage controller to control the boil rate and vapour production/speed not the temprature.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7652
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Yummyrum »

+1 Setsumi .

Leave your brewing rig as is . You’ll need it for whisky .

Get a seperate Still setup .

And the temp thing . ... again what Setsumi said . ... get a power controller , Temp controllers are useless in distilling .
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

Got it, thanks guys! From my reading all day yesterday this is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure. I might look to get a bigger control box to lay in the electrical circuitry for a 220v, 5500w electric element setup with power controller, think that will be the way to go. Then keep the brew setup as-is with the addition of a plug in electric setup.

Really want to have an easy-to-clean keg setup, if I go that route with electric conversion of a keg. But looking at the 6" TC ferrule for the top and associated fittings/flanges to get to the 2" TC size for a standard column is $$!! Any thoughts there?
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

Just doing some quick math on an electric setup with 6" TC opening at top for ease of cleaning: $150 keg, $30 6" TC ferrule, $100 6" to 2" TC reducer, $50 various other SS fittings/ferrules, $130 condenser setup, $75 TC 5500w element, $125 control box & extension cable/wiring, $35 TC clamps, $25 misc hose/QD fittings, $100 weld labor for shop to weld, etc....

$820!!
User avatar
RC Al
Swill Maker
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:40 am
Location: Sunny Queensland Oz

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by RC Al »

Natural gas - town gas thats really cheap? Whats electricity cost by comparison in your area? Worth considering

Wok burner AND the 240v :twisted:

Seriously though use both, not necessarily on the same boiler. Elements are great for dialing in reflux stills and spirit runs for a pot, a smaller wattage one and controller might suit the budget better. A pair of weldless 2200w ones and a single controler would save a bunch on clamps and welding cost

Gas is a bit better with dirty washes, less chance of scorching. A unmodified keg and simple pot head gets you started quickly on gas while you futz about with a lectric set up

Add the 6" port (4" will get you out of trouble), but skip the reducer and use the existing 2" or back up to similar $$ for a 4" opening and reducer (4&4, 4&2, 6&4 or 6&2). Because of the temps and alc involved, most of us dont stress the cleaning side too much, the dunder in the boiler is a greatly concentrated bunch of acids, tbh, I frequently leave mine for a week or more after a run before cleaning, I have used an un modded keg for a couple of years now, I keep a few around, scorched one the other day (got careless with a siphon), just swapped it out and will clean it at my leisure

Apparently kegs are a universal $50 give or take if you look hard enough on local trade/swap sites - the more often you look, the better chance of a cheap one, they go quick

I personally think that what your planning (pretty common) is wasted on a 15g keg, something larger would be more worthwhile

We can get these pretty cheap here, they dont seem super available in the usa though, might be worth chasing up
https://brewmasterwholesale.com/product ... -port.html
https://www.kegland.com.au/118l-31gallo ... oiler.html

Not sure about the $130 condenser? What is it?
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

Actually found a 6" to 2" reducer 'bowl' for $48 shipped. Might go the route you suggest of getting a keg set up mechanically how I want it (for direct fire NG), and do electric conversion when the funding is there.

Wondering on my BG12 Bayou buner, what kind of control I could get with the ball valve that's on it now. Could it do the job of a power controller on an electic element? I seem to get pretty good control, but no idea if the control is consistent enough to properly make a good spirit run. Can go pretty low and slow with it. Using my small NG burner would certainly save a lot initially and get me up and running. Understand you can get off the ground with the 2" TC on the keg 'stock', but really want to have a 6" opening out of the gate, especially if I can do it for $75 in hardware and then get all my ports welded on in one shot at the welder for $100-$125 hopefully. That'd keep things under $250 then most likely for just the pot, and then need to figure out my condenser setup. I do have a pump as part of my rig, and a 15gal hot liquor tank that should perform nice as a coolant water recirc setup. :thumbup:
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Setsumi »

your burner should work. iin my neck of woods i do not see ball valved burners but if you can regulate the flame well all good. i found a high presure regulator is a must on propane, do not know if it is available for NG. also if you run in an open area it is a good idea to protect the flame from wind.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
Twisted Brick
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Twisted Brick »

Simmons76 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:25 am Actually found a 6" to 2" reducer 'bowl' for $48 shipped. Might go the route you suggest of getting a keg set up mechanically how I want it (for direct fire NG), and do electric conversion when the funding is there.
That's a good price for that reducer. I had a 6" ferrule welded on my keg in the last year and love it. It has proved to be a versatile addition providing the ability to connect to a 4/3/2" riser or column, and ease of cleaning. It also can do double duty as a thumper (see my sig).
Simmons76 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:25 amWondering on my BG12 Bayou burner, what kind of control I could get with the ball valve that's on it now. Could it do the job of a power controller on an electric element? I seem to get pretty good control, but no idea if the control is consistent enough to properly make a good spirit run. Can go pretty low and slow with it.
I run NG through a 40k btu burner that can also run low and slow. It works very well full power on strips and offers plenty of control during spirit runs. With a keg still charge (9-13gal), the thermal mass remains very stable once up to temp and does not require fiddling or adjusting the power. As long as you can get your ball valve to operate a low flame you should be good to go.

A keg as you've planned it becomes with the versatile tool, but keep in mind that with the ability to put a large amount of power into it, you will need a condenser to handle that power.

Looking forward to seeing your new kit.

Twisted Brick
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields

My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9674
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

10 years ago almost everybody ran gas.....you shouldnt have any trouble regulating flow on a spirit run.
You dont really need anything bigger that the original 2 in opening on the top of the keg either if you really want to save money.
Lots of folk have run them that way for years......just give them a quick rinse out with the garden hose when finished.
Jump in at the shallow end.....learn to swim....then upgrade if or when you want.
User avatar
SaltyStaves
Distiller
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by SaltyStaves »

I have a 20 gallon mash tun and an 8 gallon pot still.
In a single brew day, I can make what I'd consider a bare minimum for a double distilled pot still whisky.

I don't know how big your mash tun is, but it doesn't look like it can feed a keg with enough wash to make it worth the effort. Your money might be better spent upgrading the mash tun instead of luxuries like 6" ferrules on a keg you can't fill.
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

SaltyStaves wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:16 pm I have a 20 gallon mash tun and an 8 gallon pot still.
In a single brew day, I can make what I'd consider a bare minimum for a double distilled pot still whisky.

I don't know how big your mash tun is, but it doesn't look like it can feed a keg with enough wash to make it worth the effort. Your money might be better spent upgrading the mash tun instead of luxuries like 6" ferrules on a keg you can't fill.
Good point, and thanks all for the very helpful responses! The MT in that pic is 15 gal, and I have a 20 gal boil kettle that has a false bottom that will double as a MT. So 20 gal max MT capacity. Also saw in another thread where a guy took the Spike 15gal pot in that pic, drilled and put a weldless 2" tri clamp fitting on it, sealed the lid by making his own gasket, and ran that as what he said is a very effective pot still. Heck, that would be almost no additional equipment, just need a condenser setup.

Speaking of which, condensers. As I get older time is becoming more and more important. As I look for a condenser setup, wanted to know if it's something like 'man, if I just would've gone 3" on my column instead of 2", I could run x faster and would save me a ton of time on a run'. Things like that I really want to dig for. Or 'damn, if my condensing pipe was just a foot longer I could run x amount faster'. Those are the things I'm really looking to not regret, and want to be patient in planning out my setup so I get as close as possible to a final setup. The patience is probably the priority at the moment as opposed to just getting a run going as quickly as possible. I really want to get the first run under my belt, but want to only buy the important stuff once. Thanks!
Simmons76
Novice
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:13 pm

Re: Retrofit my direct fired brew rig, or build electric boiler?

Post by Simmons76 »

RC Al wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:23 am
We can get these pretty cheap here, they dont seem super available in the usa though, might be worth chasing up
https://brewmasterwholesale.com/product ... -port.html
https://www.kegland.com.au/118l-31gallo ... oiler.html

Not sure about the $130 condenser? What is it?
Yep, looks like $350 shipped to my house from a popular US supplier: https://www.morebeer.com/products/kegme ... gLKEvD_BwE

NG is cheap here, and so is electricity ($0.065/kwh) so either is economical.

Not sure about 31gal, if I’d be looking to run that much wash. Maybe start with 15.5 gal and get some runs in on that, then sell for a 31gal electric rig.
Post Reply