Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Moderator: Site Moderator
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
So my mash process is a PITA. Thinking a drain valve would help.
I have an 8 gallon stainless milk can boiler and a 30 gallon drum for mashing/fermenting.
A 50lb bag of corn + 3 full boils in my 8 gallon boiler top up my 30 gallon mash tun perfectly and hit a target temp of 195 every time.
Here's the rub... 3 boils takes a while, so I run my propane hard. Like real hard. The rim around the base of my stainless boiler gets hot. Then I have to carefully pick the heavy thing up and pour the piping hot water over the corn. It's only a matter of time before I get hurt, plus it's hot, heavy and I don't like doing it.
I'd like to add a 2" tri clamp valve to the bottom of my milk can boiler so I can build a stand that allows me to just open the valve to quickly drain the boiling water directly into the mash tun. But I am worried about the heat. I am not worried about the heat from the boiling water, but rather the proximity to the propane burner/flame.
Is this something g I should even worry about?
Should I be looking at ball valves or would a butterfly valve suffice?
I have an 8 gallon stainless milk can boiler and a 30 gallon drum for mashing/fermenting.
A 50lb bag of corn + 3 full boils in my 8 gallon boiler top up my 30 gallon mash tun perfectly and hit a target temp of 195 every time.
Here's the rub... 3 boils takes a while, so I run my propane hard. Like real hard. The rim around the base of my stainless boiler gets hot. Then I have to carefully pick the heavy thing up and pour the piping hot water over the corn. It's only a matter of time before I get hurt, plus it's hot, heavy and I don't like doing it.
I'd like to add a 2" tri clamp valve to the bottom of my milk can boiler so I can build a stand that allows me to just open the valve to quickly drain the boiling water directly into the mash tun. But I am worried about the heat. I am not worried about the heat from the boiling water, but rather the proximity to the propane burner/flame.
Is this something g I should even worry about?
Should I be looking at ball valves or would a butterfly valve suffice?
Last edited by Hillbilly Popstar on Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
So far this one seems my.most cost effective contender.
DERNORD Sanitary Butterfly Valve with Pull Handle Stainless Steel 304 Tri Clamp Clover (2 Inch)
DERNORD Sanitary Butterfly Valve with Pull Handle Stainless Steel 304 Tri Clamp Clover (2 Inch)
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Truckinbutch
- Angel's Share
- Posts: 8107
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
I have a 3/4" drain that exits the side of the bottom . Valve is outside the propane burner .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
- Yummyrum
- Global moderator
- Posts: 7746
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
- Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
There is a topic around here somewhere where the drain is in the bottom and runs through the middle of the gas burner , then below it , it right angles to the side .
The valve was below the flames . There was a shroud fitted around the drain in the bottom to keep the direct flames away.
The valve was below the flames . There was a shroud fitted around the drain in the bottom to keep the direct flames away.
My recommended goto .
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... ion_Theory
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
Mine would also be sticking out the side. But it would still be pretty close to the flames, but not in it.Truckinbutch wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:01 pm I have a 3/4" drain that exits the side of the bottom . Valve is outside the propane burner .
Unless I turn the heat all the way up, then the flames lick around the bottom edges of the boiler.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Dancing4dan
- Site Donor
- Posts: 936
- Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:18 pm
- Location: Alberta
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
For my Banjo Burner I use pieces of sheet metal to act as a heat shield. They just sit between the pot and the burner. Friction fit. Use it every time propane is used. Protects valve and valve handle from the melt.
The heat shield allows My pot to get wrapped with a welding blanket.
The heat shield allows My pot to get wrapped with a welding blanket.
"What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
Got a picture of how you set it up?Dancing4dan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:52 pm For my Banjo Burner I use pieces of sheet metal to act as a heat shield. They just sit between the pot and the burner. Friction fit. Use it every time propane is used. Protects valve and valve handle from the melt.
The heat shield allows My pot to get wrapped with a welding blanket.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Run it out the side with a pickup tube like the brewing guys. I guess a milk can has a flat bottom so you should get most with a side tap and pickup. 8 gallons of boiling water is no toy.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Yeah the stainless milk cans have a 2" tri-clamp port coming out of the side and flush with the bottom.
I'm not sure what a "pickup tube" is?
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Just a bend piece of tube that angle down to the bottom like a copper 90 deg elbow.Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:35 amYeah the stainless milk cans have a 2" tri-clamp port coming out of the side and flush with the bottom.
I'm not sure what a "pickup tube" is?
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
If the id of you valve is much smaller than the tc port, or if the bottom of the tc is more than 1" or so from the bottom, an L that goes inside the boiler facing down that ends a 1/4" or so above the bottom helps to extract as much as possible, the other end has to be lower to keep the prime.
Mines a 3/4" ball valve with just a garden hose fitting for draining liqiuds, the L is welded onto a 2" blank and has a threaded fitting for the valve, the hose ends lower so the prime is kept. After that empties, i just undo the tc to get grain out if needed. Dunno how much a 2" would actually help with grain, might work well if you stir while emptying - dunno if your thinking of using that boiler for on the grain or not, but thats where many end up
As above, I have a bit of sheet to protect mine.
An extension on the tc will also move it away from the flame, but it will block easily if using grains.
Sorry, not home to show you a pic
Mines a 3/4" ball valve with just a garden hose fitting for draining liqiuds, the L is welded onto a 2" blank and has a threaded fitting for the valve, the hose ends lower so the prime is kept. After that empties, i just undo the tc to get grain out if needed. Dunno how much a 2" would actually help with grain, might work well if you stir while emptying - dunno if your thinking of using that boiler for on the grain or not, but thats where many end up
As above, I have a bit of sheet to protect mine.
An extension on the tc will also move it away from the flame, but it will block easily if using grains.
Sorry, not home to show you a pic
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
My milk can boiler has Tri Clamp near the bottom with a butterfly drain. Mile Hi uses a 1 1/2" butterfly for the drain I think because it keeps it just a little lower than a 2" would.
I always get most, never get all the liquid out, but when the pump is done it's easy to move the rest to pour or clean.
The only problem I see with a bottom drain, other than it keeping the boiler from sitting flat which you already mentioned, is if it's a wide hole grains will fall into it and not get cooked with the rest. Probably not enough to worry about but I wouldn't go running big 2" pipes out the bottom. The keggle I'm working on now goes from the 2" tri to 1/2" pipe right away.
Good luck!
Edit: This will give you some ideas for pickup tubes, but note many aren't appropriate for stills due to the seal materials.
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1838.htm
I always get most, never get all the liquid out, but when the pump is done it's easy to move the rest to pour or clean.
The only problem I see with a bottom drain, other than it keeping the boiler from sitting flat which you already mentioned, is if it's a wide hole grains will fall into it and not get cooked with the rest. Probably not enough to worry about but I wouldn't go running big 2" pipes out the bottom. The keggle I'm working on now goes from the 2" tri to 1/2" pipe right away.
Good luck!
Edit: This will give you some ideas for pickup tubes, but note many aren't appropriate for stills due to the seal materials.
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1838.htm
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Seeing as how the TC inlet in the boiler is flush with the bottom, I dont think I will need a pick up tube of any sort.TwoSheds wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:35 am My milk can boiler has Tri Clamp near the bottom with a butterfly drain. Mile Hi uses a 1 1/2" butterfly for the drain I think because it keeps it just a little lower than a 2" would.
I always get most, never get all the liquid out, but when the pump is done it's easy to move the rest to pour or clean.
The only problem I see with a bottom drain, other than it keeping the boiler from sitting flat which you already mentioned, is if it's a wide hole grains will fall into it and not get cooked with the rest. Probably not enough to worry about but I wouldn't go running big 2" pipes out the bottom. The keggle I'm working on now goes from the 2" tri to 1/2" pipe right away.
Good luck!
Edit: This will give you some ideas for pickup tubes, but note many aren't appropriate for stills due to the seal materials.
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1838.htm
However, I might just grab a 6" section of tri-clamp pipe to move the valve further away from the base of the boiler.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Right, it's more of an either/or, but thought that assortment might give you some more ideas.Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:11 am Seeing as how the TC inlet in the boiler is flush with the bottom, I dont think I will need a pick up tube of any sort.
That's the great part about TC, you can mix and match and adapt to just about anything!Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:11 am However, I might just grab a 6" section of tri-clamp pipe to move the valve further away from the base of the boiler.
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
No doubt
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:35 pm
The rim around the base of my stainless boiler gets hot. Then I have to carefully pick the heavy thing up and pour the piping hot water over the corn. It's only a matter of time before I get hurt, plus it's hot, heavy and I don't like doing it.
Can you raise it high enough so that, instead of lifting, you can just tip it to pour into the mash tun ?
That was my solution after several instances of burning my hands and straining my back ... has been working well now for years.
________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
I think a valve on the side is not a problem if you don't push the gas too far, I would insert a heat shield under the valve (Something hooked to the tap, which can be inserted and removed easily) .I would think of a tilting platform if you cannot empty completely .
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Before I moved to electric, I put my burner on my work bench. Put the milk can boiler on the burner and fill it. Drains through side, 3/4inch ball valve, into my 30 gallon barrel. A length of 1 inch food grade hose slips over the drain and directs water and prevents splash burns.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
This is exactly what I want to do.Deplorable wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:11 am Before I moved to electric, I put my burner on my work bench. Put the milk can boiler on the burner and fill it. Drains through side, 3/4inch ball valve, into my 30 gallon barrel. A length of 1 inch food grade hose slips over the drain and directs water and prevents splash burns.
20201226_092921.jpg
You feel the 3/4" valve is sufficient? How did you mate it to the 2" tri-clamp port?
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
My boiler, as you can see in the picture has to triclamps at the bottom. A 2" and a 1.5". The 1.5 is for that valve. You can buy the same butterfly valve for a 2" triclamp. It'll likely be a larger through diameter. Mines fine, but bigger is better. Check Amazon. Dernord has them I think.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
Add this elbow to that drainHillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:49 pm So far this one seems my.most cost effective contender.
DERNORD Sanitary Butterfly Valve with Pull Handle Stainless Steel 304 Tri Clamp Clover (2 Inch)
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best drain valve? Is heat a problem?
This is the combo I had in mind. I might also add a short length of pipe before the 90 so I can move my plastic fermenting barrel a little further away from the fire.Deplorable wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:05 amAdd this elbow to that drainHillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:49 pm So far this one seems my.most cost effective contender.
DERNORD Sanitary Butterfly Valve with Pull Handle Stainless Steel 304 Tri Clamp Clover (2 Inch)
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Putting my propane burner on the work bench was one of the reasons I switched to electric. It just felt unsafe.
It was just as stable as being on the floor, and the wood top never got hot to the touch, but...
My fermenter is on a barrel dolly, it wheels right under the drain.
It was just as stable as being on the floor, and the wood top never got hot to the touch, but...
My fermenter is on a barrel dolly, it wheels right under the drain.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Here's what I cam up with.
This way my plastic mash tun/fermenter is farther away from the burner.
And no, I won't be running the burner on top of this plastic bin. I just set this up to determine my height. I will be building a small bench to set everything up at the proper height.
This way my plastic mash tun/fermenter is farther away from the burner.
And no, I won't be running the burner on top of this plastic bin. I just set this up to determine my height. I will be building a small bench to set everything up at the proper height.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Twisted Brick
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
- Location: Craigh Na Dun
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Ever think about a 3/4" copper steam pipe off your boiler riser? Run horizontally to a 90* over the center of your fermenter, then vertically, terminating near the bottom into a diffuser. I would think steam from 8 gallons of water would be plenty to heat your strike water and... no lifting of water to re-fill the boiler.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Yeah, but I didnt think an 8 gallon boiler would be a enough to heat a 30 gallon mash.Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:37 pm Ever think about a 3/4" copper steam pipe off your boiler riser? Run horizontally to a 90* over the center of your fermenter, then vertically, terminating near the bottom into a diffuser. I would think steam from 8 gallons of water would be plenty to heat your strike water and... no lifting of water to re-fill the boiler.
I didnt actually know the math on that, just shooting from the hip there.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Twisted Brick
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
- Location: Craigh Na Dun
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Now that you mention it, maybe 8gal would be short, although if you started the party off with hotter water in the fermenter it would take less time. I need to look up the conversion math so I don't speak out of line.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
Well my current method hits just over 190 degrees if conditions are just right.Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:08 pm Now that you mention it, maybe 8gal would be short, although if you started the party off with hotter water in the fermenter it would take less time. I need to look up the conversion math so I don't speak out of line.
Steam injection would likely allow me to get a bit hotter. I wonder if that would improve my conversion efficiency. I'm currently hitting about 1.065 with ~2.5 lbs cracked corn per gallon of water.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
- Twisted Brick
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
- Location: Craigh Na Dun
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
I don't boil my water for corn-based mashes, but my corn is either purchased as meal or hammer-milled to a fine grain/flour. I bring my strike water to 200F and pour in the corn. It settles at 190F and hydrates until 180F where I add my HT alpha. If you ground your corn to meal you would get a slight increase in efficiency, but grinding would certainly reduce your gel and overall mash session time. 1.065 on 2.5 lbs/gal is pretty good.
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- W.C. Fields
My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
- Hillbilly Popstar
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:02 am
Re: Best boiler drain valve for use over propane?
I mill my corn as fine as I am comfortable doing so in order to be able to squeeze it later after fermenting.Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:23 pm I don't boil my water for corn-based mashes, but my corn is either purchased as meal or hammer-milled to a fine grain/flour. I bring my strike water to 200F and pour in the corn. It settles at 190F and hydrates until 180F where I add my HT alpha. If you ground your corn to meal you would get a slight increase in efficiency, but grinding would certainly reduce your gel and overall mash session time. 1.065 on 2.5 lbs/gal is pretty good.
I try and get my strike water as hot as I am able to get it.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"