squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:47 am
you guys know the liquid contents we put in these mason jars is a known carcinogen. So what we don't like to water down our carcinogens with minute traces of other possible carcinogens?
I’m not quite sure I understand what you’re getting at? Are you saying that because we’re drinking a product that may contain a variety of carcinogens we shouldn’t care about ingesting any other harmful product?
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
I have gotten cork stoppers for my mason jars and bottles used for long term storage. Now I'm reading that cork degrades over time and can contaminate your liquor. I see a selection of rubber stoppers at my local brewing supply store. What about rubber for storing and oaking high proof stuff?
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:39 am
I have gotten cork stoppers for my mason jars and bottles used for long term storage. Now I'm reading that cork degrades over time and can contaminate your liquor. I see a selection of rubber stoppers at my local brewing supply store. What about rubber for storing and oaking high proof stuff?
Composite cork degrades quite quickly over high proof liquor. It's embarrassing if you open a jar to show off your skills to a friend and the cork crumbles into the jar. I've seen that happen.
Mason jar sized natural corks would be expensive if you could find them, so none of my long term aging liquor is in Mason jars.
Rubber wouldn't be any better, unless you like the taste of rubber.
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:39 am
I have gotten cork stoppers for my mason jars and bottles used for long term storage. Now I'm reading that cork degrades over time and can contaminate your liquor. I see a selection of rubber stoppers at my local brewing supply store. What about rubber for storing and oaking high proof stuff?
I bought small 10L / 2.6 Gallon Stainless Fusti Tanks for Wine,
by Sansone for long term storage. The gasket is Teflon.
I leave the top slightly loose. Works quite well, stores quite safely, and comes with a SS gate valve that allows me to draw off portions with no fuss or mess. Using several 2”x2”x3” chunks of medium charred Oak, a sprig of vanella Beal, and some Orange zest as aging agents, make an outstanding Bourbon like liquid,
NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:54 am
Composite cork degrades quite quickly over high proof liquor. It's embarrassing if you open a jar to show off your skills to a friend and the cork crumbles into the jar. I've seen that happen.
Mason jar sized natural corks would be expensive if you could find them, so none of my long term aging liquor is in Mason jars.
Rubber wouldn't be any better, unless you like the taste of rubber.
Check the link below.
Shipping used to be free no matter what until quite recently. So, natural cork is good?
Since shipping went up, I've been getting corks from the hardware store. Any way to tell if they are composite or not?
Mostly using 1/2 gallon milk bottles and 1/2 gallon growlers
I use widgetco corks for large mouth mason jars, 1 and 1/2 gallon jugs, 3/5/6 gallon carboys, and large mouth gallon jars. Have not had any disintegration issues. 3 gallon carboys are a nice size for single batch output on the 16g boiler spirit run.
jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:44 am
I use widgetco corks for large mouth mason jars, 1 and 1/2 gallon jugs, 3/5/6 gallon carboys, and large mouth gallon jars. Have not had any disintegration issues. 3 gallon carboys are a nice size for single batch output on the 16g boiler spirit run.
Cheers!
-j
Hey, thanks for the answer. Seems some of mine have gotten a little soft, but no issues as you say.
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Anyone know anything about rubber stoppers?
NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:54 am
Rubber wouldn't be any better, unless you like the taste of rubber.
I did some reading for you...
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Hey, thanks for the answer. Seems some of mine have gotten a little soft, but no issues as you say.
If they're getting soft then it's because the binder that holds the bits of cork together is dissolving in the high proof alcohol vapour inside your bottle. Which means it's probably going into your booze. So that would be an issue, unless you like drinking glue.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Anyone know anything about rubber stoppers?
NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:54 am
Rubber wouldn't be any better, unless you like the taste of rubber.
I did some reading for you...
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Hey, thanks for the answer. Seems some of mine have gotten a little soft, but no issues as you say.
If they're getting soft then it's because the binder that holds the bits of cork together is dissolving in the high proof alcohol vapour inside your bottle. Which means it's probably going into your booze. So that would be an issue, unless you like drinking glue.
Guess a better way to put that would be to ask if anyone had used rubber stoppers and had personal experience with them.
Looking more for sure answers here.
jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:40 am
Don’t use the agglomerated cork product. Do use the standard widgetco corks.
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Anyone know anything about rubber stoppers?
NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:54 am
Rubber wouldn't be any better, unless you like the taste of rubber.
I did some reading for you...
davek14 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:21 pm
Hey, thanks for the answer. Seems some of mine have gotten a little soft, but no issues as you say.
If they're getting soft then it's because the binder that holds the bits of cork together is dissolving in the high proof alcohol vapour inside your bottle. Which means it's probably going into your booze. So that would be an issue, unless you like drinking glue.
Guess a better way to put that would be to ask if anyone had used rubber stoppers and had personal experience with them.
Looking more for sure answers here.
Safety first and foremost! These forums take a very strong negative view on the use of plastics and synthetics in distilling. It simply is not safe to use these during any part of the distillation process with the exception of HPDE buckets which are acceptable for fermentation. There simply are too many types of plastics and a lack of reliable information for us to reliably advocate their use anywhere in the distillation apparatus. Also, from past posting history, this topic seems to quickly boil down into an almost religious flame war. Thus we simply will not put up with it, and posts about any form of plastic use will be edited, deleted or locked.
The use and discussion of plastics with high proof ethanol solvent are very strongly discouraged for safety reasons.
davek14 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:18 am… Guess a better way to put that would be to ask if anyone had used rubber stoppers and had personal experience with them.
Looking more for sure answers here…
Well, I DO USE silicone rubber stoppers in my carboy fermenters. Some of them are decades old. But, I have seen some of the rubber dry out and begin to crack over the years. And remember, they’ve ONLY been used in service for fermentation … where the alcohol of the beer or mead is ALWAYS below 10%ABV.
So, you can only imagine how a rubber stopper (silicone rubber, I hope) would be affected by any spirit above 10%ABV. Without doubt it is NOT RECOMMENDED. In fact, we have a rule against the use of rubber in distillation for a reason. It’s not good for you. PERIOD!
ss
I have read numerous posts and for 1/2 half mason jars I have seen Widgetco size 44 and size 42 recommended. Looks like both might work 44 sitting high and 42 sitting low. I measured my jar top opening at 2.92 inches. So not much more than the bottom diameter of a #44 cork and not much less than the 3.00 inch top diameter of a #42 cork. Suggestions?
subbrew wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:55 pm
I have read numerous posts and for 1/2 half mason jars I have seen Widgetco size 44 and size 42 recommended. Looks like both might work 44 sitting high and 42 sitting low. I measured my jar top opening at 2.92 inches. So not much more than the bottom diameter of a #44 cork and not much less than the 3.00 inch top diameter of a #42 cork. Suggestions?
Make sure they are not laminated. The larger cork can wear in or be trimmed and become smaller. the smaller cork won't grow.
As I read thru this thread, I wonder has anyone considered wax paper? I did not see a reference to it, it is my understanding that wax paper will resist alcohol and you could use it as a liner, any thoughts l?
Thedevilswater wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:28 pm
As I read thru this thread, I wonder has anyone considered wax paper? I did not see a reference to it, it is my understanding that wax paper will resist alcohol and you could use it as a liner, any thoughts l?
Wax lids would be about as useful as wax-lined barrels.
Thedevilswater wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:28 pm
As I read thru this thread, I wonder has anyone considered wax paper? I did not see a reference to it, it is my understanding that wax paper will resist alcohol and you could use it as a liner, any thoughts l?
They aren't cheap, but US Plastics sells PTFE lid liners for both wide mouth and small mouth mason jars. The S&H was as much as the cost of a dozen liners. The upside is that they will last forever.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Thedevilswater wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:28 pm
As I read thru this thread, I wonder has anyone considered wax paper? I did not see a reference to it, it is my understanding that wax paper will resist alcohol and you could use it as a liner, any thoughts l?
Wax lids would be about as useful as wax-lined barrels.
I think you miss the point, the original discussion was about plastics from the underside of the mason jar lid seeping into high proof liquid, so.. what does a barrel have to do with it?
And I would point out some of the barrel manufacturers provide wax to seal the outside of the barrel.
So my point is if you are doing ageing in mason jars with wood chips, spirals or other items and worried about plastic from the lid I wonder if wax paper is an answer.
It is hard to understand why you would try to take the topic off in a wild direction, but it is the Internet and we have all kinds. Perhaps it is my issue as I failed to provide context of the question.
Thedevilswater wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:33 am
I think you miss the point, the original discussion was about plastics from the underside of the mason jar lid seeping into high proof liquid, so.. what does a barrel have to do with it?
My fault. Didn't provide the salient point, as I assumed it was already common knowledge. Some barrels made by lesser coopers have wax on the inside. People who have used them have found they taint the spirit (i.e. not neutral). Wax paper may impart its own (unwanted) character to the spirit.
It is hard to understand why you would try to take the topic off in a wild direction, but it is the Internet and we have all kinds. Perhaps it is my issue as I failed to provide context of the question.
Yes, all kinds... I never said anything about maturation or the function of a barrel. You assumed that from my vague post and assumed what my motivations were.
This isn't facebook. Most people's motivation for posting here is to learn and share.
Thedevilswater wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:33 am
I think you miss the point, the original discussion was about plastics from the underside of the mason jar lid seeping into high proof liquid, so.. what does a barrel have to do with it?
My fault. Didn't provide the salient point, as I assumed it was already common knowledge. Some barrels made by lesser coopers have wax on the inside. People who have used them have found they taint the spirit (i.e. not neutral). Wax paper may impart its own (unwanted) character to the spirit.
It is hard to understand why you would try to take the topic off in a wild direction, but it is the Internet and we have all kinds. Perhaps it is my issue as I failed to provide context of the question.
Yes, all kinds... I never said anything about maturation or the function of a barrel. You assumed that from my vague post and assumed what my motivations were.
This isn't facebook. Most people's motivation for posting here is to learn and share.
Fair enough, to clarify, 1. The wax for barrels I am referring to is external to block slow steps after cureing the barrel. 2. When I am asking about wax paper for the lid I am thinking about medium to long term storage where the liquid would not be in direct contact but would only contact when shaken or via evaporated liquid not constant contact.
It is not my intention to recommend but to discuss...personally I use apple wood tops I manufactured from a tree in my yard for my mason jars to age. I have put wax paper on the outside when I want to stop evaporation thru the wood top.
Have not tasted anything funny but the longest my stuff sits to date is 6 months, I do have some stuff that will be on glass with wood spirals for 2 years, a new experiment, I use natural cork there.
Anyway thank you for the reply, it seemed at first a bit of an attack, but I can see your points.
Wax paper on the outside wouldn't concern me too much, but if it is on the spirit-facing side, then it is under attack from vapour, which can be much more destructive than direct contact with a solution of alcohols and water. That could potentially result in some unwanted taint over the long run. Enough to notice? That I can't say.
I am a newbie to this hobby.
Having read this discussion I am confused -- many opinions most without actual facts or empirical data.
It seems that the prevailing notion is that ethanol will attack almost every material, some more than others.
Maturation requires some degree of oxygen transfer during the process and the passage of time.
Mason jars are inexpensive and readily available. They come with a lid and screw top. They can be used for storage and maturation activities using wood byproducts in the container.
Some folks endorse the notion of wood lids but those are not practical for most of us without tools and associated woodworking skills and the appropriate wood. Good solution but of limited practicality.
SS containers can be used (Fusti Tanks) but the cost is high and the idea of oxygen transfer (apparently) would require a loose fitting lid.
What about the idea of using the mason jars with the US Plastics lid liners with a pinprick hole in the center of the liner and a corresponding pinprick hole in the lid itself. If the evaporation rate is too high put some tape over the hole in the lid to reduce the oxygen transfer. This would prevent the bad stuff caused by ethanol contamination and at the same time allows for some degree of oxygen transfer and at the same time use the underlying jar and its rings.
Like all solutions, it is not perfect but is would seem to be some approach towards two goals -- no contamination and modest cost.
I use 13 L carboys with baking paper
Screw on original lid overtop. Fairly snuggly.
Seems to work well.
If i tip sideways i get some leakage - so air must transfer
My fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters - better! :D
Life has gotten interesting!
EricTheRed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:46 am
I use 13 L carboys with baking paper
Be aware that baking paper is not wax paper. The heat and grease resistance comes from a superfine coating of silicone! I was pissed as hell when I learnt this about 6 months ago.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
I don't use mason jars for aging due to the lid issue and they're too small for my needs. Gallon jugs and half gallon jugs work well with a widgetco cork. 3 gallon carboys also work well with the same size cork. I feel like 5&6 gallon carboys are too large and fragile for that amount of finished likker. Five gallon barrel for that amount or spread it out to smaller aging vessels.
EricTheRed wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:46 am
I use 13 L carboys with baking paper
Be aware that baking paper is not wax paper. The heat and grease resistance comes from a superfine coating of silicone! I was pissed as hell when I learnt this about 6 months ago.
Oh cr@p. Will have to check into that.
Thanks for the heads up
My fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters - better! :D
Life has gotten interesting!
jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 7:33 am
I don't use mason jars for aging due to the lid issue and they're too small for my needs. Gallon jugs and half gallon jugs work well with a widgetco cork. 3 gallon carboys also work well with the same size cork. I feel like 5&6 gallon carboys are too large and fragile for that amount of finished likker. Five gallon barrel for that amount or spread it out to smaller aging vessels.
Just my approach..
Cheers!
-j
+1
1 gallon jugs and 3 gallon carboys are perfect for small batches.
The bitch is the cost of quality carboys.
I usually split my single batches between two 1 gallon jugs 3/4 full and cork them with a widgetco cork with a slice out of the side to allow air exchange.
I'm either making a single batch, or enough to fill a 5 gallon barrel.
It's always either one ferment, or a series of 3 ferments for me until I find a good deal on 3 gallon carboys.
Most of my half gallon jugs are used to store backset sealed hot and left in a dark cupboard.
I should add that what I store/age in mason jars is under a Teflon lid from USPlastics. Even feints destined for the next run of the same product.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Thank you for all who replied to my recent query -- especially Deplorable who seemed to address my question.
What you do not know is that I am a fairly senior individual. As we age (at least) two things happen -- your balance is not as good as it once was and your strength/agility diminish. The consequence is more stumbles and often falls. A fellow in our local beer club almost lost his arm to a glass carboy that broke when he had an accident. I am now a 'born again' preacher against larger glass carboys.
For me smaller containers are the norm.
A US Plastics 2.725"(70mm) PTFE Disc (Item 60182) is a disc that will fit 'inside' the lid of a mason jar. Is that the item that is used and discussed most often on this thread?
Mr_Beer wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 5:28 am
Thank you for all who replied to my recent query -- especially Deplorable who seemed to address my question.
What you do not know is that I am a fairly senior individual. As we age (at least) two things happen -- your balance is not as good as it once was and your strength/agility diminish. The consequence is more stumbles and often falls. A fellow in our local beer club almost lost his arm to a glass carboy that broke when he had an accident. I am now a 'born again' preacher against larger glass carboys.
For me smaller containers are the norm.
A US Plastics 2.725"(70mm) PTFE Disc (Item 60182) is a disc that will fit 'inside' the lid of a mason jar. Is that the item that is used and discussed most often on this thread?
Those and the ones for wide mouth jars, which ever you have. I have, and use both.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.