My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post here whats not safe to do or use.

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Deplorable
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Deplorable »

Probably best (and safest) to write it off as a lesson learned and buy/build a new boiler.
I hope your daughter is in better shape than your Digi boil.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by ThomasBrewer »

cob wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:20 pm Without good support the flat bottom will deform before the dents pop compounding the problem.

Same goes for the top unless it is properly domed.

I have used a 55gallon steel drum for containment, but have not had a rupture to test its effectiveness

Remote pressurization and pressure release are a must. Remote like 100' with physical barriers.
Using pressurized gas or steam would impractical and dangerous. Hydraulics would be the best way.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by still_stirrin »

Vapor (air or another gas) is compressible, meaning it can be “squeezed” into a smaller vessel. Liquids, on the other hand, are relatively incompressible. And when you compress a fluid, it stores the energy you put into it to compress it. And think of that similar to the energy stored in a spring when you compress it. When the spring is released, the energy is released with much force, almost violently if a lot of energy is stored (big spring with a high spring rate).

If you try to pressurize the vessel enough to reform the shape, using a compressible fluid will store a lot of energy and if the vessel were to fracture, or one of the creases crack, then the energy would be released violently and that would indeed cause an “explosion”.

Hydro-forming, using a liquid to pressurize the vessel, is safer because you can actually use much higher pressures without storing as much energy in the pressurized fluid. As an example, auto and aircraft industry use hydro-forming to shape complex shaped metal body panels, often with hundreds of pounds of pressure forces.

But looking at the photos of your boiler, I would not recommend trying to salvage it because I see several creases that are deeply formed into the sheet metal already and those creases are places where the metal has already been “work hardened” making it a prime location for crack initiation (potential failure nucleation point). I don’t believe you could ever get the vessel formed back into a cylinder shape safely.

In conclusion, I wouldn’t want you to join your daughter in the hospital in your own hospital bed. Get a used 1/2 barrel keg instead.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

cob wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:20 pm Without good support the flat bottom will deform before the dents pop compounding the problem.
Maybe you will just make a ball!

But, seriously, the Digiboil things look pretty inexpensive to even consider trying to salvage yours. Just get another boiler, you can still use your still head stuff.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by AppleWood50 »

Based on the recommendations here and my own common sense I've decided that I won't even attempt and form of pressure reforming of the boiler. No liquid, steam or air whatsoever. The risk is never worth the cost when it comes to material items which can be replaced.

I did spend a little time reforming the boiler with a hydraulic jack. And it's formed out fairly well. Still some large creases on the side but I've only actually lost about 4 litres of volume with the way it is now.

The lid fits on and it's completely water tight.

I'm gonna order a new boiler at the end of the month when I get my next pay check. But until then would it be dangerous to do a couple more runs in the boiler with the way it is now?

Of course if it poses any risk whatsoever I won't bother and I'll just wait until the end of the month when I get a new boiler. But it is water tight and seems relatively fine really accept for the creases in the sides.

Aesthetics for me is a huge part of this hobby so I'll definitely be ordering a new boiler when I get paid again anyways!

Let me know what you all think
20220501_180920.jpg
Also for when I do get a new boiler. How could I best use the heating elements from the digiboil in a keg if I decided to go the keg route? Would prefer to use the heating elements and electrics from the digiboil In a keg so it doesn't all go to waste. Don't really want another digiboil they are paper thin!

Thanks everyone. Definitely won't be making this mistake twice. Many of lessons learned!
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by acfixer69 »

Use the digital for water, the electrics aren't suitable for distilling. Start on the right foot this time. Keg and proper controller.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by shadylane »

AppleWood50 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:58 pm
I did spend a little time reforming the boiler with a hydraulic jack. And it's formed out fairly well. Still some large creases on the side but I've only actually lost about 4 litres of volume with the way it is now.

The lid fits on and it's completely water tight.

would it be dangerous to do a couple more runs in the boiler with the way it is now?
I'd use it.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Lights Out »

The digiboil I use for brewing is bashed to fuck because I kncoked it off a table whilst full of water once.

It sometimes even leaks a bit when cold.

Still works though. Don't see any issue using it as a heater. Not sure I'd be happy with a still run but then if the lid fits perfectly, not really sure why not.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by YeahMate »

zapata wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:50 pm Hey Applewood, thanks for sharing. Personally, I think some of the shit you've gotten is unfortunate and misguided. I think speaking up about mistakes should be encouraged, ESPECIALLY when they go real bad like this did. Good on ya mate.

What you were running was dumb, and you had already been told that. Chalk it up to proof we collectively know what we're talking about. I'd be fine living next to you, my neighbors do much more dangerous stuff on a weekly basis. Not trying to give you a pass, just calm some of the rhetoric here.

So far as fixing, keep in mind that pressurized liquid is almost infallibly safe. I'd try that. Pressurized air and steam are both universally dangerous, I would avoid. Most house pressure is about 35 psi, and since you already have a hose hooked up... :lol: But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what pressure it takes to reinflate it, might give an idea of just how much vacuum had built up.

So far as what caused the implosion, I think the hose collapsing is incredibly likely.

So far as something we can all get out of this beyond flogging "plastics are bad" and "inattention is bad" is that fleeing the scene for an unexpected emergency can cause us to make dangerously bad decisions. I've always thought E-stop buttons to be overkill, but I bet it would've helped in this case. Daughter calls, emergency? Check. Press the big red Emergency button. Unknown vacuum issue was still lurking and maybe would've happened anyway, but that's because you shouldn't have been running that still like it was under any circumstances. Personally I will reconsider my emergency protocols to include a "shit, I gotta run, NOW" emergency, and may well add that cartoonish E-stop I've always avoided, so thanks for the inspiration.
100% Agree. Working in the airline industry reporting is encouraged, if mishaps are swept under the rug or chastised mistakes become the norm and disasters become more common.

Reporting of incidents like this should be encouraged not mocked. If there is a culture on this website where we ridicule people for their mistakes nothing can be learned from these opportunities.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by NormandieStill »

YeahMate wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 1:57 am 100% Agree. Working in the airline industry reporting is encouraged, if mishaps are swept under the rug or chastised mistakes become the norm and disasters become more common.

Reporting of incidents like this should be encouraged not mocked. If there is a culture on this website where we ridicule people for their mistakes nothing can be learned from these opportunities.
There's a whole section of the forum dedicated to just that. I have a couple of posts in there, and in general if you post directly there as a sort of mea culpa, there's not so much piling on. Perhaps a friendly mod might migrate this thread there eventually. It's a nice extra reason for not using plastic tubing (in addition to the chemical leeching into your drinking stock).
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Yummyrum »

Yeah good point Normandie , I’ll move it .

Also fully agree with you Yeamate . How the hell do we ever know what is a problem if nobody ever admits their accidents .
Yup like your industry , mine also promotes reporting of accidents or near accidents .
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by psf »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133307817642

Now that you decided to move on I'd experiment a little. I saw one episode where they used antacid tabs to break a building for a jail break.

I'd even try some cold packs and aluminum powder.

The difference in your first experiment and these is you can actually monitor them, hopefully safely. I like to tinker though.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Ben »

AppleWood50 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:58 pm

Let me know what you all think

20220501_180920.jpg
Well done overcoming the problem with the tools at hand. It will still make a great boiler for your brewery side if you need one. As far as the electronics: When you are in a position to let that thing go, start tearing apart the base and see what the innards look like. You will be able to determine what to do from there. It should be pretty simple, some electronics to control the boiler, a temperature probe of some sort and the heating element itself, decide how to make them fit into a keg and you are off and running.
:)
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Yummyrum »

Ben , if the repaired thing works fine as a mash tun where temperature control is useful .
Why would you want to transfer the electronics to a keg or other still boiler where temp control is a hinderance :wtf:
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Rrmuf »

elbono wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:03 pm If that hose is on the output and is fairly soft (at the temp it was at) it will flatten when suction starts, causes more suction, more collapse....

Suction sucks!

I've seen a railcar tanker collapsed by a small suction conveying system blower. It's amazing how much force "vacuum" can exert.
+1 End of hose submerged then the hose flattened, then that makes a seal then suction from the cooling boiler.
So, no pliable hose, and I won't mention the obvious as you've lready fallen on that sword. :wink:
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by shadylane »

If it had been copper tubing the post would have been about.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Deplorable »

Moral of the story is that a still should always, ALWAYS be open to the atmosphere. Because vacuum sucks and pressure blows both can lead to devastating consequences.
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Re: My still has imploded!!!! Digiboil 35L

Post by Alcophile »

I logged onto the forum for the 1st time in a LONG time and spotted this.
I can confess to doing the same sort of thing to a Grainfather boiler. I was distilling water (yes really!) and dozed off (I know, I know!). I woke up when the collection vessel was overflowing, and the output tube was under water. I immediately turned off the power and started clearing up the flood. A couple of minutes later I got to witness a virtually instant implosion of the boiler.
The mechanism is this: when the power goes off the whole boiler apart from the remaining fluid is full of water vapour, the air having been displaced long ago. There is a SLIGHT resistance as the output hose is under water. The water vapour is being well mixed by convection currents. At some point the whole vapour mass cools pretty much simultaneously to the temperature it will condense at, as it condenses it's volume falls by a factor of about 22. This creates a very sudden high vacuum in the boiler which can't be released fast enough as sucking water is a lot higher resistance than air. There is then not very far off 15psi difference between inside & outside, and the boiler implodes.
I thought about trying to pressurise it back out but realised the flat base would get wrecked, so bought a new "bare" boiler & transferred all the control stuff, pump etc.
Incidentally my preferred pressurisation idea before I ditched it was to use water and pressurise with a pressure washer. There is an online video of Colin Furze using the technique to build a pulse jet!
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