tri-clamp silicone gasket vs PTFE gasket

[Swag]

Years ago I advocated the use of PTFE as a gasket material here and was almost kicked off this site! I did my own research and found that PTFE is a very inert material and have been using it ever since.
My point is that you don't have to be a chemical engineer to read the data sheets pertaining to materials of interest. I don't want any undesirable contamination in my product, but there are plenty of materials available which are specifically engineered to be non reactive to a wide variety of chemicals and solvents. Research is your friend.

[gungatim]

There seems to be a lot of silicone gaskets being sold on all the distilling supply websites. I realty don't see to many PTFE gaskets advertised. The PTFE gaskets are more solid and rigid. Is silicone being excepted more these days?

yes, they are excepted. (meaning no, they are not accepted more these days).

[Swag]

I wrote to Dow Chemical about the compatibility of silicon and alcohol. They said it was highly resistant to alcohol, but provided no lab test results. They also mentioned that their sealers were considered food grade by the FDA. I'm not recommending or condemning, just passing along some info.

Cheers

[rad14701]

I wrote to Dow Chemical about the compatibility of silicon and alcohol. They said it was highly resistant to alcohol, but provided no lab test results. They also mentioned that their sealers were considered food grade by the FDA. I'm not recommending or condemning, just passing along some info.

Cheers

But we already knew that... They didn't tell you anything that the MSDS doesn't state... A manufacturer will never state anything that isn't in the MSDS as it could potentially open them up to litigation... The crux of the matter still remains to be which manufacturer and which exact composition... That's why we don't condone the use of silicone... Use at your own risk...

[CR33G3R]

Those silicone ones are nice and squishy and seem that they would seal almost anything and do rate as very good on allot of msds sheets for their resistance to alcohol.
The PTFE ones are virtually chemically inert meaning that they don't react with anything and are about the best material that we can use for our hobby.
They are the ones that I chose to use. They are easily sourced at industrial supply houses or gasket and seal companies.
They are built for the tri- clamp fittings but can easily be modified for use with a keg by simply sanding one side flat. I would recommend the use of a ferrule or end cap as a handle to hold the gasket. Simply sand in a figure 8 pattern on a flat surface until you have sanded the raised bead down flat and you will have a perfectly safe gasket for your keg that should last for years.
Just my .02

[neil]

After reading this topic I started looking for some PTFE gaskets. But found none that fit my still. So I went to a chemical transport company that uses a lot of those gaskets. Although it seemed there were no gaskets that fit perfectly, I got two sheets of PTFE and one solid round gasket with no holes in it. I’m thinking about cutting it up to make it fit. It’s about 1mm thick and pretty sturdy. Should I place it on the flange and then cut away what I don’t need? Or draw the old gasket onto the sheet and cut it out and drill holes in it afterwards?

Don’t exactly know how sensitive the PTFE is. I would not want to create a leak by cutting it wrong.

[Hound Dog]

After reading this topic I started looking for some PTFE gaskets. But found none that fit my still. So I went to a chemical transport company that uses a lot of those gaskets. Although it seemed there were no gaskets that fit perfectly, I got two sheets of PTFE and one solid round gasket with no holes in it. I’m thinking about cutting it up to make it fit. It’s about 1mm thick and pretty sturdy. Should I place it on the flange and then cut away what I don’t need? Or draw the old gasket onto the sheet and cut it out and drill holes in it afterwards?

Don’t exactly know how sensitive the PTFE is. I would not want to create a leak by cutting it wrong.

When you get the PTFE in hand you will see it is some pretty sturdy stuff. Just carefully cut it with a sharp razor blade and you will be fine either way you choose.

[Euphoria]

After reading this topic I started looking for some PTFE gaskets. But found none that fit my still. So I went to a chemical transport company that uses a lot of those gaskets. Although it seemed there were no gaskets that fit perfectly, I got two sheets of PTFE and one solid round gasket with no holes in it. I’m thinking about cutting it up to make it fit. It’s about 1mm thick and pretty sturdy. Should I place it on the flange and then cut away what I don’t need? Or draw the old gasket onto the sheet and cut it out and drill holes in it afterwards?

Don’t exactly know how sensitive the PTFE is. I would not want to create a leak by cutting it wrong.

I recently replaced all my stock silicone gaskets with ones I got here. Nice quality and reasonably priced.

http://www.jmesales.com/product/bradfor ... 735,17.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[jimmayhugh]

A PTFE gasket made for a triclamp of various sizes would be nice. As well as one for a tri clamp to keg gasket. (One side is flat against the keg and one has a lip to fit inside the clamp)
Just my opinion.

Take a look here

[Expat]

A PTFE gasket made for a triclamp of various sizes would be nice. As well as one for a tri clamp to keg gasket. (One side is flat against the keg and one has a lip to fit inside the clamp)
Just my opinion.

Take a look here

Or just take a regular PTFE gasket and run it across a piece of sandpaper; takes about 10 seconds to take the ridge off. Done.

[GCB3]

This subject has been on my mind lately as I hope to be back up and running in a few months. I have a Brewhaus column rig and was surprised when it came with black, rubber like seals for the column tri-clamps, a silicone boiler lid seal, and silicone take off tubing. Searching here I found a source for the PTFE seals and replaced them fairly quickly (I have not had any leaking to date) and replaced the tubing with copper.

My issue is I haven’t found a good replacement for the boiler lid silicone seal. I am one of those folks who thinks Brewhaus makes a high quality product and responds immediately to any problems. That said, I am surprised at these material decisions. Several folks report wrapping the silicone in PTFE tape, which will be my next step. Has anyone found a suitable PTFE replacement for the Brewhaus boiler top seals?
Thanks

[ttocs]

My issue is I haven’t found a good replacement for the boiler lid silicone seal. I am one of those folks who thinks Brewhaus makes a high quality product and responds immediately to any problems. That said, I am surprised at these material decisions. Several folks report wrapping the silicone in PTFE tape, which will be my next step. Has anyone found a suitable PTFE replacement for the Brewhaus boiler top seals?
Thanks

Not sure what size you're talking about but this ebay seller carries 1.5"-8"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-8-PTFE-Gas ... 1869828078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[GCB3]

Thanks so much, that’s a good resource. The Brewhaus kettle seals are unique, which makes finding them tough. I’m out of town and don’t have it right in front of me, so, going by memory (really dangerous!). The top side is flat to fit a channel in the lid. Then the underside is concave to match the radius on the kettle lid. In addition, the rubber is compressible so that as the tri-clamp tightens, the seal compresses. Rick (at Brewhaus) objected to the idea of TFE at this joint due to it’s stiffness and sealing ability considering the rotation forces created by a fully assembled column. He probably has a point, but, after all I’ve learned here, the rubber seal concerns me more.

I might be able to turn one on a lathe to match, but, buying the TFE sheet of proper thickness will get expensive fast. This is the only thing in my rig that’s not SS or Cu. May just have to wrap it and plough ahead.
Thanks for the link.

[luva69r]

They don't need to be replaced often. I've used 100% silicone gaskets for years and they still work just as well as when they were brand new. If they need to be replaced, the tri-clamps are most likely being cranked down far too tight and they are mechanically destroying the gasket.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating the use of any "prohibited" materials, merely adding my experience with said materials.

I have recently had issues with silicone gaskets from my very first still, the Brewhaus Essential Extractor II. There was a very strange, nondescript chemical smell throughout every single run. We haven't had this with our copper setup.

It makes me wonder why there is not stronger wording here about produtcs from Brewhaus or Milehi. Instead, we have some members praising Brewhaus and others condemning plastic, making it rather confusing.

I've never had this problem, myself. I use all silicone gaskets on my plate column from HBS now, due to the leakage problems I've had with PTFE. I've also never had a problem with any of the items I purchased from Mile-Hi or Brewhaus. I'm not saying your problems aren't due to their products, I just feel that people only speak up about a company's products when they have a complaint. When this is the case, I feel that it's worth mentioning positive experiences as well. The overwhelming negativity regarding commercial stills on HD is what makes me feel this way.

Do you know that this chemical smell is due to the gaskets? If it is, I'd sure like to know. I'd like to send some samples to a chem lab to be tested for silicone content and know for absolute certain. I'm the type of person who likes to know exactly what's happening with my processes... I refuse to accept, "well, we think it's bad so just don't do it" as a response. I want exact scientific data, at least to the detectable thresholds.

Again, I am in no way advocating the use of these materials for anyone else. I only advocate doing full and thorough research on everything and making educated decisions based on thorough analysis. I don't take anyone's word on anything... I prefer to research it myself. I would offer to perform these tests myself and share the results, but I don't want to anger the administrators of this site or break any of the rules. The rules are there for a reason and I respect and honor these rules to the best of my ability. However, it would be great to see this experiment through and post the results. I feel it would help the community immensely to say something along the lines of, "We subjected silicone gaskets from sources A, B, C, and D to azeotrope ethanol at X degrees F for T amount of time. Upon chemical analysis, we found there to be the following detected contaminants at the listed levels." That would be rock solid evidence to post as a sticky so anyone asking in the future could be referred to the post. Don't do it, case closed, or other (depending on results).

I understand this is an old post but I applaud you.
Did you get the answers you were after?

[luva69r]

Has anyone used these?

They are a 50/50 blend of Teflon and stainless steel.

[Expat]

Has anyone used these?Screenshot (5).png
They are a 50/50 blend of Teflon and stainless steel.

I wouldn't expect so. They're designed for extreme temp applications which would be unnecessary for a still.

[luva69r]

Has anyone used these?Screenshot (5).png
They are a 50/50 blend of Teflon and stainless steel.

I wouldn't expect so. They're designed for extreme temp applications which would be unnecessary for a still.

I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't.

[still_stirrin]

...I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't...

I’ve never had a problem with PTFE gaskets leaking on tri-clover joints and I’m still using the first 2 gaskets I bought.

So, I don’t ever see the need for a steel/teflon gasket...too much worrying about a non-issue.
ss

[luva69r]

...I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't...

I’ve never had a problem with PTFE gaskets leaking on tri-clover joints and I’m still using the first 2 gaskets I bought.

So, I don’t ever see the need for a steel/teflon gasket...too much worrying about a non-issue.
ss

Not worrying. Just suggesting as an option. Seems to be quite a few posts about dodgy silicone gaskets and PTFE ones leaking because they are too hard and don't expand and contract.

Just putting it out there...

[seabass]

A lot of pro distillers use Platinum cured silicone gaskets. Although many of them store high proof distillate in hdpe containers, so I'm not sure how much faith I put in that.

I don't see any need for the ptfe stainless gaskets. If you're worried about the ptfe gaskets leaking, get triclamp clamps with the hole in them and use a screw driver in the hole to tighten it. I've found that you can't just hand tighten with ptfe gaskets. It takes an extra half turn it so to seal.

[NZChris]

look up PTFE gaskets with Viton or EPDM cores.

[Avo]

Screenshot (6).png

Has anyone used these?Screenshot (5).png
They are a 50/50 blend of Teflon and stainless steel.

I wouldn't expect so. They're designed for extreme temp applications which would be unnecessary for a still.

I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't.

Hi Luva69r,

I think you might have something here - PTFE with the flex of stainless steel sounds perfect. As far as use for 'extreme temp applications' that is a bonus, and no drawback if using for a still. I shall be seriously looking into this myself. They may be expensive; so what, they would be an extremely worthwhile investment. I would think their composition would make them last almost indefinately. Thanks for finding this, I just hope they can be easily available for use with our hobby. Well done.

AVO

[Avo]

look up PTFE gaskets with Viton or EPDM cores.

Very worthwhile consideration

[Expat]

Screenshot (6).png

Has anyone used these?Screenshot (5).png
They are a 50/50 blend of Teflon and stainless steel.

I wouldn't expect so. They're designed for extreme temp applications which would be unnecessary for a still.

I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't.

Hi Luva69r,

I think you might have something here - PTFE with the flex of stainless steel sounds perfect. As far as use for 'extreme temp applications' that is a bonus, and no drawback if using for a still. I shall be seriously looking into this myself. They may be expensive; so what, they would be an extremely worthwhile investment. I would think their composition would make them last almost indefinately. Thanks for finding this, I just hope they can be easily available for use with our hobby. Well done.

AVO

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Standard PTFE gaskets make a perfect seal, when used properly, and last forever.... As designed. Fancy gaskets are just adding more cost and needlessly complicating a very simple situation.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

+1 Expat. I have no idea why this is even being brought up as a problem. There is no problem, they don't leak in triclamp applications. We may have a void to fill for softer plastics in other applications, but for clamps ptfe works perfect. And one with one side rubbed a few minutes on sandpaper will get you the best seal for the keg sankey.

[Corsaire]

I was asking as their composition is ideal for a still. More flex than Teflon alone + stainless. Plus they expand and contract with temperature changes which PTFE gaskets don't.

I spent a couple of minutes on their site and read their brochure. It seems perfectly safe for our needs.

But they specifically say it does not compress and contract with temperature changes.

Furthermore they recommend exact torque settings and proprietary clamps.

Not meant to bring you or this product down, just an fyi.

I bought ptfe seals off aliexpress but still haven't tested them. They feel very rigid and I've read the stories about leaks. Seems most can be corrected by lubing the threads so you can tighten further, or take a wrench to them.

If I encounter leaks due to my cheap seals I'll look into the ones you mentioned.

[ttocs]

Leaks with ptfe gaskets usually happen on welded ferrules as they slightly warp. One should always take a sanding block and hone down the surface flat again. Use marking blue so you know when you have it flat again.

[Avo]

AVO

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Standard PTFE gaskets make a perfect seal, when used properly, and last forever.... As designed. Fancy gaskets are just adding more cost and needlessly complicating a very simple situation.

That's just your opinion which your entitled to; what complication? no complication ! - in my own job I strive for
excellence and improvement. I use PTFE gaskets, a little bit more flexibility/give would be very beneficial.
As far as cost is concerned, a small price to pay in comparison for your larger financial outlay for a built/purchased
still. Folk will decide for themselves.

Open your mind Expat, see the bigger picture.

AVO

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Wrap it in ptfe tape. Stainless, gasket, cardboard... doesn't matter. It will work.

And yes, that is his opinion, a very valid and logical one. Which he has every right to express. When people over complicate issues for the sake of originality (and not much return) around here, we back them up and ask why.

[Corsaire]

Leaks with ptfe gaskets usually happen on welded ferrules as they slightly warp. One should always take a sanding block and hone down the surface flat again. Use marking blue so you know when you have it flat again.

Thanks!
It seems obvious but I would never have thought of that.