Aquarium Heater Danger

Post here whats not safe to do or use.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Powder Monkey
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:15 am
Location: Michigan

Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Powder Monkey »

2F703112-44B9-4C1F-98FB-9DAB4698C3D9.jpeg
I’ve successfully used the thermostatically controlled aquarium tube heaters for my rum ferments and a couple of whiskeys, all fermented in food grade plastic trash bins. I operate in my unheated barn so have been needing these to maintain proper fermentation temps.

I made up a new batch of AG that was a bit thicker than previous batches, set temp and left it for the night. This morning i came out and the barn is filled with smoke, the barrel had burned/melted and the floor has 40 gallons of mash all over. It could have been much worse but I thought I’d share my mistake so hopefully someone else won’t make it.

I think my next rendition is going to be nested trash bins with pex tubing to circulate warmed water and insulate the space with spray foam. This should limit my fire risk.
tiramisu
Swill Maker
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by tiramisu »

Do you know what caused the overheat?
Did you have a temperature sensor in the circuit or was it left always on?
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

You're not the first distiller to burn a mash with an aquarium heater, but you might be the first burn the fermenter to the ground. :D Very impressive.

When using them to get anything up to temperature, I use them as a stirrer and don't leave them unattended. I also control the Watts to minimize the chance of scorching.

The only time I tried using one to control the temperature in a fermenter, it didn't warm below the heating element and the yeast bed went cold. Heat rises, aquariums have pumps and air stones to force circulation.

A ferment produces more than enough heat to look after itself, all you have to do is stop it escaping. My 50g fermenter gets wrapped in so much old bedding that I usually have to loosen some off to prevent overheating.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3980
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Deplorable »

In my unheated garage, all I need is a heating pad under the plastic drum and a couple wool blankets, some times a sleeping bag as well. The heating pad is plugged into an inkbird controller set to the desired temperature. It barely runs except on the coldest nights.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Truckinbutch »

I use a larger bin for the water jacket and it has worked well for me .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by bluefish_dist »

Found issues with them as well. Ended up going to a heater element at the bottom and thermometer at the top. Allows natural convection to mix the wash/wort. All grain out fermentation. Fish tank elements can easily heat a layer and leave the rest cold. Had a few fermentations stop early because of stratification.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by The Baker »

I had the supply cord to my aquarium heaters threaded through the lid and fixed in place.

Now I allow the cord to slide through the hole in the lid;
and gently clamp it above the lid with two clothes pegs
so I can adjust the dangle.

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Demy »

Impressive, since it was a barn It could have been a tragedy, thank you for sharing your experience. To heat fermenters there is a very simple way that few use here on the forum, there are terrarium cables of various lengths that produce the same effect as the heating pillows, something similar to this
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9f6ayV
Search "Terrarium cable" or "heating for reptiles" cable, Just wrap your fermenter (external non-internal) and maybe insert a blanket over the cable. In any case, you must always use a thermostat to maintain the temperature, with these cables you just need a digital with little power.
This is the commercial version of what I mean, is the same cable (sold at a higher price for Homebrewing)
external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpg
Powder Monkey
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:15 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Powder Monkey »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:01 pm You're not the first distiller to burn a mash with an aquarium heater, but you might be the first burn the fermenter to the ground. :D Very impressive.
I’m glad someone was impressed because the Mrs. was not. As any ongoing hobby my process keeps changing. I used to use germination mats but i only had a 15 and 40w choice. I increased my fermentation size, now 50 gallon plus with fall we’re getting lows close to freezing. Since my barn isn’t insulated I need some juice to keep the ferment 90F ish. With the heaters coming in different wattages the available info seemed a 300w unit would be appropriate and that is what I had with the built in temperature sensor/thermostat.

Most evidence was very well charred but my best guess is the mash was a lit thicker than normal, the night was cold and the unit was on, burned the mash immediately surrounding the heater, melted the side of the tub (it wasn’t suspended in the center) and the polyester blankets/mattress covers I was using to insulate it all added a lot of nice smoldering plastic.

At this point I still think going with an insulated circulating water jacket is my next build. I’m a bit put off on the direct electrical heating methods, even though I’m sure it could be successful. At least until I can get a fully heated, insulated stillin’ area in my barn with a fermentation cupboard.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

I've had those 300W jobs burn milk while I was heating and using them as stirrers, that's why I only use them with a power controller now. I never use them to maintain temperature in anything, or leave them unsupervised.

If you have plenty of insulation, you might not need additional heat until the ferment starts to slow. I heat from underneath the fermenter with 60-150W, depending on the season, never with an element in contact with the fermenter. If it's losing temperature while the ferment is still very active, I add more blankets.

I have seen a plastic fermenter, (not mine), nearly burnt right through by a 150W light bulb that was too close.
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Andrew_90 »

One of my hobbies over the years has been freshwater aquariums.

Aquarium heaters are controlled by a bi-metalic thermostats. These have contact points which eventually fail due to due to spark erosion. They usually have a resistor in the circuit to quench the spark but these fail and when they fail they fail in the closed position leaving the heater on permanently.

My work around has been to crank the temperature of the heater up to full so that the contacts remain closed at all times. I then control the element through an independent controller.

The other work around is to calculate the heater wattage so that the heater simply does not have the ability to heat the wash above a certain point. I prefer the independent controller.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
Toxxyc
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:26 am

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Toxxyc »

I warp my fermenter in an electric blanket. The 3 settings allow me to control the temperature pretty well even in cold winters. When I was fermenting outside, I wrapped it in the blanket, taped the blanket to the fermenter with painter's tape and then wrapped it with a space blanket as well to keep heat in. Works wonders, and the blanket has built-in protection. A lot easier to use than reptile heat pads and all that, IMO.
Andrew_90
Rumrunner
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Andrew_90 »

Toxxyc wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:50 pm I warp my fermenter in an electric blanket. The 3 settings allow me to control the temperature pretty well even in cold winters. When I was fermenting outside, I wrapped it in the blanket, taped the blanket to the fermenter with painter's tape and then wrapped it with a space blanket as well to keep heat in. Works wonders, and the blanket has built-in protection. A lot easier to use than reptile heat pads and all that, IMO.
What is your heating source?
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.
AlWorms
Novice
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:12 pm
Location: Northland, New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by AlWorms »

Toxxyc wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:50 pm I warp my fermenter in an electric blanket
I've done this too.

Modern electric blankets have a filament would around the heating wires, so in the event of a failure, it shorts and blows the RCD/Breaker real fast.

I have it controlled by a thermostatic controller.

The blanket is carefully wrapped around a stainless stockpot and covered in insulation then duct tape. (I actually dismantled the blanket, so I could wrap the wires equally spaced apart - I do have an electrical qualification, yes :wink: )

I then have the pot earthed for protection, and use it in an earthed stainless sink (Actually, in our pantry :ebiggrin: )
User avatar
squigglefunk
Trainee
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:27 am

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by squigglefunk »

woah never woulda though that could happen! never like the idea of a fish heater in my mash anyway lol never used one
ThomasBrewer
Swill Maker
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by ThomasBrewer »

That's insane. How many watts was the heater, and please, what brand? Most have a thermal fuse inside; it should have tripped long before the water boiled and certainly before the melting point of that HDPE drum.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:03 pm That's insane. How many watts was the heater, and please, what brand? Most have a thermal fuse inside; it should have tripped long before the water boiled and certainly before the melting point of that HDPE drum.
Brand makes no difference, the Watts have already been posted and lower Watts can still burn a mash. Aquarium heaters were designed to be used in tanks filled with agitated water, not in fermenters filled with starch and/or sugar with no agitation.
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by The Baker »

So far so good...

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Truckinbutch »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:35 pm
ThomasBrewer wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:03 pm That's insane. How many watts was the heater, and please, what brand? Most have a thermal fuse inside; it should have tripped long before the water boiled and certainly before the melting point of that HDPE drum.
Brand makes no difference, the Watts have already been posted and lower Watts can still burn a mash. Aquarium heaters were designed to be used in tanks filled with agitated water, not in fermenters filled with starch and/or sugar with no agitation.
I agree , partially . Using a water jacket like I do ; natural convection will create circulation in a clean environment .
I determined early on that immersing a heating element directly into a live mash was a receipt for failure .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

Disasters are usually a culmination of seemingly small mistakes, oversights, misunderstandings, missed opportunities, etc.. Sometimes it's very easy to spot the main culprit, sometimes not. I'd love to watch a video of what happened in this case.

In a thick wash/mash, convection isn't going to move heated mash to the thermostat of a long SS aquarium heater, so it's thermostat is unlikely to save you from embarrassment, burnt product, etc..

I've heard a few stories about the element end of an aquarium heater buried in the grain bed or the cap causing burnt flavor, so I've decided it's better to learn from other's mistakes than repeat them myself.

In my own experience, the Watt density of a 300W SS Aquarium heater is enough to burn milk, so I don't doubt they can burn mash if you make enough bad decisions.
Toxxyc
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:26 am

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Toxxyc »

Andrew_90 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:37 am
Toxxyc wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:50 pm I warp my fermenter in an electric blanket. The 3 settings allow me to control the temperature pretty well even in cold winters. When I was fermenting outside, I wrapped it in the blanket, taped the blanket to the fermenter with painter's tape and then wrapped it with a space blanket as well to keep heat in. Works wonders, and the blanket has built-in protection. A lot easier to use than reptile heat pads and all that, IMO.
What is your heating source?
For the quoted part? The electric blanket is the heating source.
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Rrmuf »

Wow! A picture is worth a 1000 words. :shock: I will stick to my 45w seedling heating pad! But it does remind one to pay attention to every aspect of one's "operation".
-- Rrmuf
KingScotsman
Novice
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:20 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by KingScotsman »

Has anyone ever used drain line heaters used in refrigeration to heat fermenters? That is what I plan on using as I use them daily in my line of work and have never had one fail catastrophically. I have multiple fermenters and will wrap them with the heaters. The ones I use are self regulating and will keep a certain temp, I will also be able to regulate them with controls as well.
User avatar
bcook608
Rumrunner
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:54 pm
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by bcook608 »

For people using buckets, I saw a video of a guy making mead and he placed his 5 gallon fermenter into a cooler with a sous vide machine to keep temp. They're designed to run for a long time and if you're using a well insulated container for the water, it shouldn't need to kick on as often.
ThomasBrewer
Swill Maker
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 pm

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by ThomasBrewer »

KingScotsman wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:30 pm Has anyone ever used drain line heaters used in refrigeration to heat fermenters? That is what I plan on using as I use them daily in my line of work and have never had one fail catastrophically. I have multiple fermenters and will wrap them with the heaters. The ones I use are self regulating and will keep a certain temp, I will also be able to regulate them with controls as well.
The OP didn't provide enough detail to fully explain his problem. Any non-Chinese aquarium heater would have protection against anything even close to what happened here. This post is ridiculous fear mongering, IMO.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

Even non-Chinese aquarium heaters are designed for use in aquariums only. I doubt any of them are designed for use in a fermenter containing starch and sugar.
User avatar
Renhoekk
Swill Maker
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 am

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Renhoekk »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:46 pm
The OP didn't provide enough detail to fully explain his problem. Any non-Chinese aquarium heater would have protection against anything even close to what happened here. This post is ridiculous fear mongering, IMO.
I’m also curious why it failed so spectacularly. I thought aquarium heaters tapped out at somewhere around 32 degrees C. So even if it failed and was blanketed by thick mash, how did it get hot enough in there to melt down a drum? The melting point for polyethylenes, which I assume the bin was made of, is around 110 to 130C depending on the type
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13038
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by NZChris »

Renhoekk wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:24 am
ThomasBrewer wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:46 pm
The OP didn't provide enough detail to fully explain his problem. Any non-Chinese aquarium heater would have protection against anything even close to what happened here. This post is ridiculous fear mongering, IMO.
I’m also curious why it failed so spectacularly. I thought aquarium heaters tapped out at somewhere around 32 degrees C. So even if it failed and was blanketed by thick mash, how did it get hot enough in there to melt down a drum? The melting point for polyethylenes, which I assume the bin was made of, is around 110 to 130C depending on the type
The thermostat will only work if convection currents carry the heated mash to the top of the aquarium heater where the thermostat is. Too thick, no agitation = bad outcome, don't blame the manufacturer if you misuse their product and it fails.
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by Yummyrum »

Renhoekk wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:24 am
ThomasBrewer wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:46 pm
The OP didn't provide enough detail to fully explain his problem. Any non-Chinese aquarium heater would have protection against anything even close to what happened here. This post is ridiculous fear mongering, IMO.
I’m also curious why it failed so spectacularly. I thought aquarium heaters tapped out at somewhere around 32 degrees C. So even if it failed and was blanketed by thick mash, how did it get hot enough in there to melt down a drum? The melting point for polyethylenes, which I assume the bin was made of, is around 110 to 130C depending on the type
Indeed it's a strange outcome . Some things that come to mind for me . I recently bought a couple for my sugar and rum washes which worked a treat .
But mine come with some plastic suction clamps that are meant to hold it to the wall of the fish tank . So my thinking is that if used , the element is pretty close to the drum .
Now assume that the thermostat did malfunction and the element kept running . Possibly scorching the nearby mash and creating a cacoon where it just got hotter and hotter . Now that element is probably getting up to several hundred °C inside .
All hyperthetical , but the bottom clamp melts off , the element happens to touch the drum , melts a hole in it . The Mash leaks out . The element gets even hotter with no liquid around it . The glass cracks , the glowing element touches the plastic .



OK , it's a great theory , but who thought we could get a space ship to the moon .

Stranger things have happened .

LOL , maybe his Mrs got the shits and torched it :ebiggrin:
User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Aquarium Heater Danger

Post by rgreen2002 »

Hey...
For you guys using a seedling heating pad... what are you doing with the thermo? It is not supposed to be immersed so are you just capping the mash and following air temp?
I have used a few aquarium heaters in my time and have 2 500W heaters I just bought to get a jump start this mash season. I like the idea of the mat so let's give that a try!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
Post Reply