Legislation

[Mtn-Hi]

I didn't know were to post this so I put it here.

Does anyone know of any sites that deals with/ keeps up with current legislation for the US concerning the legalization of making spirits at home for personal use? I do make beer and wine but am hesitant to get involved with something that can send you to prison. By the way, is making small amounts of shine a felony or a misdemeanor? Does anyone know if the ATF activly persues small time still operations or are they just concentrating on big producers? I would realy like to get into this hoby and would support any Legislation out there, but at this time the risk seems to be too much. In the meantime I can continue to do my research and homework so I'll be one step ahead of the game when we finaly wise up like our NZ friends. I thought about at least building a still (there are soooo many nice designs around) just for the fun of it, but thought that the temptation to fire it up would be much to great !!!

Thanks,
Mtn-Hi

[Guest]

Does anyone know of any sites that deals with/ keeps up with current legislation for the US concerning the legalization of making spirits at home for personal use?Mtn-Hi

If there was such a site there wouldn't be much to report.
a bill gets submitted every few years and dies of neglect.

is making small amounts of shine a felony or a misdemeanor?

Even thinking about making your own booze is a felony. I'm not kidding. Intending to do it is a felony, building a still is a felony, setting up an area that you intend to use to distill is a felony... by the time the first drop of booze falls from the collection tube of your still you'll have broken something like 50 statutes each of which carries a possible five year stay at club fed. and/or a ten thousand dollar fine.

Does anyone know if the ATF activly persues small time still operations or are they just concentrating on big producers?

Now here's the (slightly) good news... there is no ATF. That's right... its gone. The firearms and explosives portion of the ATF got rolled into Homeland Security and took the paramilitary enforcement arm with it. The alcohol and tobacco portion of the agency has become the TTB: The Tax and Trade Bureau of the United States Treasury. The TTB will still bust you for running a hobby still if your neighbor calls them up and complains that you are a big time moonshiner. Your state may also have laws on the books or tax statutes that prohibit distilling and how aggressively those laws are enforced and what the penalties are will vary from state to state.

I would realy like to get into this hoby and would support any Legislation out there, but at this time the risk seems to be too much.

you are a smart fella and that there is by far and away the most prudent and responsible course of action.
For myself it is an obsession... not doing it would be like trying not to breathe.

In the meantime I can continue to do my research and homework so I'll be one step ahead of the game when we finaly wise up like our NZ friends.

Don't hold your breath for this. this law doesn't inconvenience anyone important and its nearly impossible to change bad legislation when it can be recast as a public safety issue.

I thought about at least building a still (there are soooo many nice designs around) just for the fun of it, but thought that the temptation to fire it up would be much to great !!!i

Sadly if you built a still you'd be breaking the law, its kind of an in for a penny in for a pound deal.

Thanks,
Mtn-Hi

you are quite welcome

[Guest]

Sadly if you built a still you'd be breaking the law, its kind of an in for a penny in for a pound deal.

Stills for distilling water or essential oils from plants are OK.

[Guest]

Here, in Canada the offense has been removed from the criminal code. It's been placed in the 2001 excise act. Don't sell the stuff, and you should be fine. definitely, don't walk around with a hillbilly hat w/ a straw hanging out of your mouth, while lugging around a large brown jug with 3 X's marked on the front.



http://www.encode.com/exec/the_national.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Wait for the video to load.

[Firebaall]

Damn cookies!!!

Argh!

Please fix your log in time outs/cookie problems.

[Fourway]

Sadly if you built a still you'd be breaking the law, its kind of an in for a penny in for a pound deal.

Stills for distilling water or essential oils from plants are OK.

Only if they are under one gallon.


stills for doing anything are "ok" if nobody decides to bust you for it.
If you have an under one gallon still and you aren't using it to distill alcohol you aren't breaking any statutes... if it is over a gallon you can be busted for an illegal still no matter what you are using it for... the chances of it actually happening are slim... but if we are talking about the letter of the law (and I thought that was what we were talking about) then what you use a still for is not important.

[Mtn-Hi]

Thanks to all for the great information. I especially enjoyed the video. My take on this whole thing is that if I build a tower I'm ok. If I put it on a one gallon pot (useless), I'm ok. If I put it on a 10 gallon pot (practical) I would be treading on dangerous grounds. I have great neighbors so I'm not concerned about them calling me in. I doubt that they would recognize it for what it is anyway. It seems to me that as long as your not mass producing, selling or flaunting what your doing they (the law) pretty much ignores you. If I were facing a $500.00 fine and no felony charges, like on the video, it may be worth the risk, but the "felony" part puts at risk my concealed carry permit and my hunting rights, not worth it! Does anyone think that there is a chance that they could follow the Canadian example and reduce the felony charge to a misdemeanor? Anyway, I did register on here and will continue my studies.

[Fourway]

If I put it on a 10 gallon pot (practical) I would be treading on dangerous grounds.

technically yes this is correct, but in practical terms the risk is pretty small. you'd need to mess up in a really epic way to get the attention of the government and even then you'd need to have done something to make someone want to make an example of you for it to result in felony charges. I have had dozens of police in my house investigating a burglary with my equipment sitting right out in the open and the most reaction I got was a conspiritorial grin from one of the detectives.

If I were facing a $500.00 fine and no felony charges, like on the video, it may be worth the risk, but the "felony" part puts at risk my concealed carry permit and my hunting rights, not worth it!

honestly unless you are writing the TTB letters daring them to bust you are more likely to lose your carry permit and hunting licence because the second amendment is suspended after a military coup d'etat

Does anyone think that there is a chance that they could follow the Canadian example and reduce the felony charge to a misdemeanor? Anyway, I did register on here and will continue my studies.

yes there is a chance. The Red Sox won the world series. I suppose anything is possible. Thing is... "lawmakers" don't do *anything* that isn't being lobbied for by someone unless they can use it as a campaign issue or make a lot of money for friends of theirs.
No powerful voting bloc is lobbying for hooch hobbysts... a pol who backs decriminalizing moonshining can have it used as a smear later "My opponent drafted and vigorously backed legislation that would allow unskilled bathtub gin makers to build and operate potentially explosive moonshine stills capable of producing highly toxic nearly pure alcohol which has been known to cause blindness, lead poisioning and death... with absolutely no government supervision. creating potent alcoholic beverages that have no FDA approval and have no purpose other than getting hard core alcoholics passed out drunk for free... these noxious products could easily fall into the hands of children and teenagers who with their lower tolerance and lower body weight could posibly succumb to rapid alcohol poisoning and death...
so in summation a vote for me is a vote for safety and prudence while a vote for my opponent is a vote for poisoning children."

[linw]

How sad, Fourway, but the last part of your post sure had a ring of truth to it. Excuse us for being cynical.

[Mtn-Hi]

Go Red Soxs !! If I'd read other post correctly the last Congressman that proposed legalizing home distilation got reelected. I'm glad his opponent didn't read your post first, you sure gave a condemning argument.

[Angel_Kefka]

if your operation is small, you aren't trying to sell the stuff, and you don't spread it around then you should be ok. Unless they have a reason to search your place, they wouldn't even know you were distilling. But like you I'll probably just learn how and hope its made legal.

[Yttrium]

I believe the congress man who last submitted a bill to legalize home distilling was a democrat named Bart from Michigan.

[Mtn-Hi]

Yes it was Bart Stupak (D) from Michigan that introduced legistlation that would have made home distilling legal. I have not been able to find out if he plans to submit that legistlation again or not.

Anyone up in the UP that can contact him (your rep.) and find out?

[RDAdams]

The Law on Beer, Wine, and Distilled Spirits is in Chapter 51 of the Internal Revenue Code. I believe it's Sections 5001 thru 5006.

Dick

[theslak]

I personally only distill small quantities for personal use and a few "close" friends and family are the only ones who know about it, but as long as you don't advertise it, and keep it indoors (if your educated on still safety) you should be fine. It is a very addictive and fun hobby, and you can let a few of those close friends who you can trust taste your product for critique

just read up and make sure your educated and safe, then go for it! :)

[KatoFong]

Read this the other day:

A 91-year-old man waved a shotgun at Chicago Police this week from inside his South Side apartment after officers caught him selling bootleg liquor out of his kitchen window, police said.

According to the article, after all that, he was charged with aggravated assault, not bootlegging. But what I gather from the article is that their real beef with him is that he was selling it. That's what drew the attention of the cops.

Here's the full article if you can read it (the Sun Times archives kind of suck...much like most of their articles).

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst ... man20.html

[Hillbilly Rebel]

"[i]Barney, if elected I will legalize moonshine[/i]". A quote credited to Joesph Lieberman, then democratic candidate for President of the U.S. This was at a charity ball where the Plum Hollow Band (Barney Barnwell of http://www.moonshiners.com onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow), played for the Audubon Society at the grand opening of The Audubon Society's National Headquarters in Greenwich Connecticut on September 06, 2003. Whether or not he actually said it, I don't know, but its a nice thought and if Barney plied Joe with a little dark corners hooch, then who knows what all he could have said, that is if after having a sip or two, he could still talk where he could be understood.

That type of liberalism I can handle.

[ibgeekn]

In our area the folks are somewhat open about it. Local home brew shop keeps yeast and carbon on hand. Local law enforcement gets their samples from time to time also.
All asked have same response.......don't sell, trade, or barter the product. We are paying tax on the raw ingredients so the taxation issue is very minor. Larger issue is the liability if you took it to parties, etc.

Be reasonable, you don't walk into banks with a concealed gun, don't pass out product on a street corner.........And don't make up business cards for it.

And that's from Missouri....