New TTB page?

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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Doogie » Fri May 02, 2014 4:35 am

yes, but you are talking about long term versus short term - and politicians have no use for "long term".

Also, you have to consider that if they said "go nuts, make likker" that everyone and their brothers will start doing it, dropping commercial consumption dramatically in the short - near term. Now you will have large commercial distillers going nuts, blah blah blah - lobbists for the "American Citizens Institute for Safe Enjoyment" wailing how this will hurt Americans, blah blah blah. I dont know if the increase in craft distilling revenue to the gov't will be enough to offset the loss on the large guys, and enough of a gain to make up for lost revenue in the short term starting up. Add to that the lost revenue as people become successful in making their own likker and stop buying commercial or craft likker.

The numbers may balance out in the long term (5-10yrs?) but in the short term it will reduce revenue... Sadly I think the most you will ever see in North America will be a relaxation of Craft Distillery creation and nothing more - and that will take years in itself.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby RandyMarshCT » Fri May 02, 2014 6:04 am

Doogie wrote:yes, but you are talking about long term versus short term - and politicians have no use for "long term".

Also, you have to consider that if they said "go nuts, make likker" that everyone and their brothers will start doing it, dropping commercial consumption dramatically in the short - near term.


I don't think so. This didn't happen with brewing. Most people don't want to go through the trouble of making their own beer... it's too much work. Distilling isn't exactly a quick and easy hobby. There's a lot of learning and work involved. I personally believe that people in general are just too lazy to get involved unless they have a genuine interest. There isn't a concentration of drunkards on HD that just want to get cocked as cheaply as possible. Rather, there IS a concentration of people with an interest in science-based processes who strive for high quality products. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I buy a bottle of commercial liquor now it is usually something top shelf that I buy to compare my stuff with.

Doogie wrote:The numbers may balance out in the long term (5-10yrs?) but in the short term it will reduce revenue... Sadly I think the most you will ever see in North America will be a relaxation of Craft Distillery creation and nothing more - and that will take years in itself.


New Zealand reported a steady rise in commercial spirit sales for 3 straight years after they legalized home distilling in 1996. I think the same would happen here. The option of distilling as a hobby reinvigorates people's interest in spirits in general. I feel confident that you are incorrect in your assumption regarding our ability to legalize this hobby. I'd even be willing to make a friendly wager. Let's say $100 USD, that within 1 year from this date hobby distilling will be legal on a federal level in the US. What do you think?

Bob Rossi Jr.
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http://www.hobbydistillersassociation.org
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby goinbroke2 » Fri May 02, 2014 7:58 am

RandyMarshCT wrote: Let's say $100 USD, that within 1 year from this date hobby distilling will be legal on a federal level in the US. What do you think?

Bob Rossi Jr.


One year from THIS DATE??? I think you're a little optimistic but I'm rooting for ya!




One year.....you go girl! LOL! :thumbup:
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Doogie » Fri May 02, 2014 9:31 am

Umm, for $100 USD for legalization in the US within 1 year from today's date, I will give you 2:1 odds just because I am a nice guy. Unless you are in the industry and are using inside info to screw me over :) ;)

I know people mention the New Zealand phenomenon as justification that legalization will lead to a boost in sales, but from brief reading ( http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/alcohol/page-4 ) that a couple of factors played into it - 1) Legal age dropped to 18 in 1999, 2) in 1996 wobbly-pops (RTDs) showed up, boosting likker by volume on drinks by 13% from '96-'11 and comprising of 15.7% of the likker sales. Note that it was not until 2003 that the consumption started to match the US and Canada - meaning that they simply caught up to the rest of us ... dunno - maybe it just became easier to get likker at the same time it became legal to make it yourself ...

Point is, I think the justification is loose at best. Yes, there will be some of us that reach for the better stuff when we do go to the likker store (I do the same thing) but while I will buy the pricier stuff, since distilling, my expendatures of likker has been cut - drastically - like 80% kind of drastic. This relates to a 80% cut in the taxes I paid on that likker (yes, the ingredients will recover a portion of that loss, but that recovery is miniscule ...) ... and governments right now are dealing with cuts in revenue due to the reduction in taxes collected because of the economy, and I dont think they will tolerate just giving this cash cow called likker taxation to the slaughter house for a while ...

And basic distillation is not rocket science - yes, making good safe likker is technical, but there is enough resources out there that if legalized there is nothing that complicated of buying a pre-fab still, putting it on top of a turkey frier burner, and running their 18% turbo wash thru it. Yes, making good solid likker is technical, but for the baby-duckers of likker consumers, they wont care. I think there is some benefit for craft distillers since those that appreciate the technique will gravitate to those type of sources, but large distillers will suffer with legalization ...

... and they are the ones who can organize and pay for the lobbyists and the corrupt politicians they pay off.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby goose eye » Sat May 10, 2014 9:20 am

goverment doin anythang in a year is a bad bet. they gonna table it for sure to start with. dependin on the chair and makeup it aint gonna see light.

never underestamate your enemy ability to make war

so im tole
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby IrishEnigma » Sat May 10, 2014 5:24 pm

http://www.downeast.com/new-bootleggers/


Idk.. Should I be all the worried? I know that I should always take caution, but am I at all that much risk?
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby sounder_4 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:29 am

Talked to MileHi...asked if they submitted a list to TTB. Answer was "Yes, and the TTB told us they have 100,000 records so far". Someone I know VERY well was not on the list because he purchased 4 years ago DAMHIK.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby rad14701 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:50 am

sounder_4 wrote:Talked to MileHi...asked if they submitted a list to TTB. Answer was "Yes, and the TTB told us they have 100,000 records so far". Someone I know VERY well was not on the list because he purchased 4 years ago DAMHIK.

I wouldn't be so sure about not being on the list... Manufacturers and distributors have had to keep lists for quite some time now... It is only recently that the TTB has requested those lists, not that the lists were initiated recently... That portion of the law has been around all along...
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby sounder_4 » Tue May 27, 2014 12:50 pm

I asked specifically if my name had been submitted to the TB and the response was a definitive "No". They are obligated to keep records 3 years and given the current climate I suspect Mike is destroying records daily as they surpass 3 years in age. I don't know this for sure but if I were in his position that's what I would be doing.

Regardless, 100,000 names is a stunning number. If the government spent $10K investigating each one, the bill would come to $100 Million. No effing way. They'd likely focus resources on buyers of multiple stills or large stills not 8 gallon milk pail stuff. IMO. I could be wrong but logic tells me otherwise.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Doogie » Tue May 27, 2014 4:20 pm

Na, if I were them, I would hammer a bit and make some news ... then offer an amnesty program - turn in yer stills voluntarily ... but also remember, they can use that list for probably 2 years (statute of limitations??). If I was milehi, I would be burning everything over 3 years daily ... but if the Florida busts were any indication, they dont care about the size. Then again, if they have 100,000 records, wonder how many of them are outside the US? Cost is irrelevant - you can use these to boost or preserve budgets as needed and dunno if that $10K is accurate if all you are using is on duty resources ...
LTV - "keep in mind distilling is like masturbating. You do one wrong and you go blind."

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Re: New TTB page?

Postby S-Cackalacky » Tue May 27, 2014 4:36 pm

That 100,000 number is interesting if you think about it in relation to how many people have built their own in addition to that number. They gotta be a hell of a lot of us out here.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby WIski » Tue May 27, 2014 5:41 pm

YUP..... and they are coming out of the closet (shed) so to speak. :esmile:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=44299
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Sherriff » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:20 am

They are misleading the public with the way they wrote that web page. It is NOT illegal to own a still in most states. The still can be used, and is is sold for making distilled water, vinegars, and essential oils. It is also legal if you get the permit for making fuel. You have to be guilty of producing alcohol without a permit, not just possessing a still.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Doogie » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 pm

Sherriff wrote:They are misleading the public with the way they wrote that web page. It is NOT illegal to own a still in most states. The still can be used, and is is sold for making distilled water, vinegars, and essential oils. It is also legal if you get the permit for making fuel. You have to be guilty of producing alcohol without a permit, not just possessing a still.

Wrong

Maybe in a few states it is OK to own a still, in many it is not
Thus, in many states, possession of a still is against the law

It will be EXTREMELY difficult to justify to a judge that you are distilling water ... "Yes yer honor, I gots me this $500-$1000 unit to distil water. No, I did not know that every major grocery store and chain sells the exact same thing for a lot less"
Any investigator would simply analyize your equipment for residue ... and yes, they will find it ...

You are incorrect in countless ways ...
LTV - "keep in mind distilling is like masturbating. You do one wrong and you go blind."

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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Dan P. » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:10 am

I am not in the US, but I would also check the law on distilling water/essences/vinegar etc.
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Re: New TTB page?

Postby Dan P. » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:29 am

IrishEnigma wrote:http://www.downeast.com/new-bootleggers/


Idk.. Should I be all the worried? I know that I should always take caution, but am I at all that much risk?


Whoa, hold on now! I'll let the "plastics police" get their titties in a bunch over this guy's apparatus; What I'm having difficulty with is that he bought a second hand pressure cooker for 12 dollars in 1972. I guess second hand pressure cookers have really devalued since then!
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