Got letter from TBB today..

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Got letter from TBB today..

Postby NoReallyMe » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:45 pm

I got this in the mail today.. Bought still from HB... I've never used it though...

Should I be worried?
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Bushman » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:03 pm

Normally we ask that first posts be in the Welcome Center which you should still do. I approved this post as buying stills can put you in the spot light and other members need to be aware of that if they are not already. As for me yes I would be concerned.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby rad14701 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:07 pm

NoReallyMe, there are several topics similar to yours that are active at the moment... Have a read around and you'll see that the TTB has been asking distributors for records and contacting customers either by mail or in person for about a year now...

Good luck to you... Hopefully, you won't need it...
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Prairiepiss » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:53 pm

I would first get the still out of my house. Just in case you were to get a visit. I would then find out the legalitys of selling a still in your state. There are a few states that it is illegal to sell a still. If you are in one that doesn't have a specific law about selling stills. I would till them you sold it. After you found out that it was illegal for you to use.
I would also get rid of any non store bought distilled spirits.

Or if you are in a place that you can get a fuel alcohol permit. I would be filing for one. And going that route. I would only use it for fuel. After you get an approved permit. In case a visit was to happen. And I would expect it to. If you have received a letter.

Or I would just get rid of it. Sell it. Give it away. Something.

Don't give them anything they can use against you.

If you have not used it. And don't have any spirits around. The I bought it for the express use in making fuel alcohol. And you was not in a place to start doing that yet. So you haven't yet filed for a permit. Mite work. But then again it mite not?

So far this is still all new uncharted territory. And what they will do is still not known. So it will be your decision as to what your next step is. I for one am glad I didn't buy one. I hope all the best for you. Good luck.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Olereb » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:29 pm

I'd personally get it off your property if your in FL,i am no expert but I asked a lawyer here a few weeks ago about the laws in FL and he told me in this state just the possession of a still is illegal even if it hasn't been used. Like I said I am no expert and he could be wrong but if it was me I'd make it vanish for awhile.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby NoReallyMe » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:54 pm

I'm actually a member here, just didn't want to post that letter under my username.. :) I was a little taken aback when this arrived in my mailbox and felt I needed to not associate my username with this..

I don't live in Florida.. Where would someone go to find out if their state allows it or not? I think it might be too late to apply for a permit since I bought this so long ago.. I plan to clean my house out just in case.. :)
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby InglisHill » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:57 am

Glad I live here.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Tokoroa_Shiner » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:09 am

I know right. Glad to be in NZ. Although i do hope that one day, for the benefit of most members here, distillation of spirits for personal consumption will be legal in the USA
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby InglisHill » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:11 am

Haha, nah, let them stay criminals!

For once the joke is not on us TS!
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby googe » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:54 am

I can't imagine how awesome it would be for all to be legal, would turn forums upside down.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby InglisHill » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:01 am

Do you think after the initial rush of people trying it because it became legal, that the hobby would be more attractive Googe? I mean do you think there is a large percentage of people who will not try it because it is against the law.

I know this can never really be proven, but I tend to think that the people attracted to stilling do it anyway.

It would make for an interesting theoretical conversation at any rate.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby just sayin » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:11 am

Many assume it is legal. My cousin's sister-in-law, a well educated professional, was planning to order her husband a still from the internet. They had gotten interested in wine making when they sampled some of mine a couple of years back. We were sampling some of their very fine wine, when Anne said she thought making a little brandy would be a logical extention of their new hobby. She was utterly amazing to learn distilling was not permitted even for home consumption like wine and beer here in the US. I told her it wouldn't be prudent to create a paper trail by order a still. I explained the basics of a simple pot still and told her she could educate herself on these forums. I told her her proposed "Alchemy" has a long and storied history of being conducted quietly in the shadows and by the light of the moon.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby rad14701 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:45 am

NoReallyMe wrote:I'm actually a member here, just didn't want to post that letter under my username.. :)

It is against the rules to have more than one membership here... Please contact an Administrator to have your accounts merged...
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby alpine » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:29 am

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but does that letter strike anyone else as a bit odd?

There's no street address, just the Dept. of Treasury zip.
Digitally signed?
Why is "See" italicized? How common are formatting typos on official documents?

Compared to this one on the TTB site, I dunno, it just seems a bit odd. Probably just the paranoia in me talking though. A misinformation/psyops campaign would probably be a lot more effective than fieldwork, and at a fraction of the price.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Truckinbutch » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:28 pm

Compared to this one on the TTB site, I dunno, it just seems a bit odd. Probably just the paranoia in me talking though. A misinformation/psyops campaign would probably be a lot more effective than fieldwork, and at a fraction of the price.
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Valid point you make in my way of thinking :wave:
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Bayou-Ruler » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:43 am

Well I received the exact same form letter with the notice about the Florida raid yesterday. I believe they are generated in batches and sent out to the people who are listed as having purchased a still without any additional background investigation prior to the letter being sent. I believe this because I have had a fuel permit for over three years and I faithfully submit all the required reports each year concerning my production of ethanol.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Soggy Bottom Boy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:57 pm

IMHO, I think this is the TTB's low cost method of using scare tactics to get a good number people nervous so that they get rid of their home distilling operation & equipment without a whole lot of effort and expense on their part.

...and it most likely works quite well, especially with married folks. Imagine that the "Little Woman" opened up the mail and saw this, you can bet that in most cases, there would be significant pressure from her to shit-can the hobby "tout de suite", as in right this minute dear! A lot of people that get this letter are going to re-evaluate their level of risk now that they realize that they are no longer anonymous to the Feds, and a bunch of them will come to the conclusion that they are better off buying their alcohol at the liquor store.

Whether or not there will be any kind of follow-up or actual visits by a Federal alphabet agency or local LE, that remains to be seen. I, for one, think that not much real action will come of their "mail-a-threat" campaign, they don't have the manpower or the resources to go after every guy that makes a couple of gallons of hooch per year.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Xs10tial » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:39 am

I received the same letter today, along with the press release from Florida. I'm not from Florida, by the way...

My gut reaction is a big "one finger salute", and it they really want to oppress an otherwise law abiding, tax paying citizen for making a few gallons of whiskey for my own personal consumption, then, fuck'em!!
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby RScottyL » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:11 am

Same here, looks pretty cheaply done, so not sure if this is just a scare tactic.

I do not live in FL either!
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby LWTCS » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:23 am

The Florida part is academic.
Just happens to be where the regional field office is located.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby rasher » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:54 am

I got exactly the same letter in the mail today. As much as I'd like to stick my middle finger in the air, it's a little troubling to say the least.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby rad14701 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:47 pm

This is all being funded by money that would be better spent fighting the heroin and methamphetamine problems in the entire US mainland... Different government branch but, nonetheless, that would be a bigger bang for the buck as well as the improvment the health and safety of US citizens... People aren't dropping dead left and right from home distilled spirits these days, and especially not at the rate that I'm seeing in my small city and surrounding communities... Legalize pot and hobby scale home distillation and go after the real problems in this country...!!! Big brother, are you listening...???
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby LWTCS » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:40 pm

rockchucker22 wrote:
rad14701 wrote:This is all being funded by money that would be better spent fighting the heroin and methamphetamine problems in the entire US mainland... Different government branch but, nonetheless, that would be a bigger bang for the buck as well as the improvment the health and safety of US citizens... People aren't dropping dead left and right from home distilled spirits these days, and especially not at the rate that I'm seeing in my small city and surrounding communities... Legalize pot and hobby scale home distillation and go after the real problems in this country...!!! Big brother, are you listening...???

Amen! Meth is the scourge of our time, awful stuff.


Definite disconnect because after all,,,,,,,,,spirits production has been a legal industry for a good long while now,,,,,,just like beer and wine. Not to mention a known technology for literally thousands of years,,,,,just like beer and wine.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby stillin » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:53 pm

Apparently they had a letter mailing party last week cause I got one today too. Hmmm, reckon how much of my tax money that wasted?
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby FtW » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:24 pm

rad14701 wrote:This is all being funded by money that would be better spent fighting the heroin and methamphetamine problems in the entire US mainland... Different government branch but, nonetheless, that would be a bigger bang for the buck as well as the improvment the health and safety of US citizens... People aren't dropping dead left and right from home distilled spirits these days, and especially not at the rate that I'm seeing in my small city and surrounding communities... Legalize pot and hobby scale home distillation and go after the real problems in this country...!!! Big brother, are you listening...???


++

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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Grey_Meadow » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:19 pm

I just looked up the Federal Liquor Tax is @2.14 per 100 proof gallon.

So if I brewed 10 gallons a week at 6% and distilled that out completely I would get 1.20 proof gallons per week. [10 gallons x 0.06 / .50 = 1.20 proof gallons.]
Times $13.50 per proof gallon is $16.20 in liquor tax per week; $842.40 if I brewed EVERY weekend for a year.
Grant it this is not legal, but to spend 100 times the possible gain, (not that there is any gain at all] is absurd. Our government at it finest. How embarrassing is this.

edited
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Dallywolf » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:37 pm

rad14701 wrote:This is all being funded by money that would be better spent fighting the heroin and methamphetamine problems in the entire US mainland... Different government branch but, nonetheless, that would be a bigger bang for the buck as well as the improvment the health and safety of US citizens... People aren't dropping dead left and right from home distilled spirits these days, and especially not at the rate that I'm seeing in my small city and surrounding communities... Legalize pot and hobby scale home distillation and go after the real problems in this country...!!! Big brother, are you listening...???

I think they might have some spare money left over from not having to fight that evil pot in a few states. Idle hands...
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby stillin » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:41 am

Not gonna lie here fellas , getting a letter from the TTB with my name and address on it was definitely a reality check. Yeah I knew buying a still on line was a risk, yeah I knew they could get my info if they wanted but figured they had better things to waste my tax money on. Apparently I was wrong. I got a good wife of 25 years, two Great Kids and a good job. Those three things are hard to come by these days and I cant afford to lose any of them. Not for a couple a gallons of likker. The closest TTB office is in florida but it ain't to hard to notify the local ATF office and ask them to follow up on this. Hate to say this but I might have to admit defeat and get rid of my stuff until its made legal, if it ever is. God the thought of going back to store bought makes me gag!
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Soggy Bottom Boy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:53 pm

Grey_Meadow wrote:I just looked up the Federal Liquor Tax is @2.14 per 100 proof gallon.

So if I brewed 10 gallons a week at 6% and distilled that out completely I would get 1.20 proof gallons per week. [10 gallons x 0.06 / .50 = 1.20 proof gallons.]
Times $13.50 per proof gallon is $16.20 in liquor tax per week; $842.40 if I brewed EVERY weekend for a year.
Grant it this is not legal, but to spend 100 times the possible gain, (not that there is any gain at all] is absurd. Our government at it finest. How embarrassing is this.

edited

....well, you forgot to add in State Liquor Excise Taxes. Washington State is around $26.00/proof gallon. The rate varies from State to State, with Oregon 2nd highest in the Nation at around $23.00/proof gallon. Very few have no Liquor Excise Tax(I think Wyoming is one). There are quite a few States with reasonable rates in the $1-$5 range. I find it odd that the 2 States with the highest rates are also hotbeds in the commercial craft/micro distilling boom.

On another note, with that in mind, I think that the States with higher tax rates will be extremely resistant to any legislation geared to legalizing home distilling. With a mess of budget cuts going on, and scrambling to fund projects, no one in government wants to disrupt any revenue stream at this time.
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Re: Got letter from TBB today..

Postby Soggy Bottom Boy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:54 pm

Soggy Bottom Boy wrote: ...and it most likely works quite well, especially with married folks. Imagine that the "Little Woman" opened up the mail and saw this, you can bet that in most cases, there would be significant pressure from her to shit-can the hobby "tout de suite", as in right this minute dear! A lot of people that get this letter are going to re-evaluate their level of risk now that they realize that they are no longer anonymous to the Feds, and a bunch of them will come to the conclusion that they are better off buying their alcohol at the liquor store.


stillin wrote:Not gonna lie here fellas , getting a letter from the TTB with my name and address on it was definitely a reality check. Yeah I knew buying a still on line was a risk, yeah I knew they could get my info if they wanted but figured they had better things to waste my tax money on. Apparently I was wrong. I got a good wife of 25 years, two Great Kids and a good job. Those three things are hard to come by these days and I cant afford to lose any of them. Not for a couple a gallons of likker. The closest TTB office is in florida but it ain't to hard to notify the local ATF office and ask them to follow up on this. Hate to say this but I might have to admit defeat and get rid of my stuff until its made legal, if it ever is. God the thought of going back to store bought makes me gag!

I rest my case.
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"Good thing you found HD. It's like the mythbusters of distilling." ...Prairiepiss
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