TwoSheds steam build

Steam powered cooking and distillation devices.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

So I'm starting on a steam build to be able to strip on the grain. Steam mashing may become a thing in the future too, but for now steam stripping is the goal. My other gear is a Mile Hi 16 gal kettle and a keggle mash tun all of which use 2" tri clamp.

I have an extra 16 gallon keg that hasn't been modified other than pulling out the original guts. My thinking is to invert it so the original opening becomes a drain, add a Mile Hi topper https://milehidistilling.com/product/we ... p-for-keg/ and two 2" tri clamp ports near the bottom to make it essentially another still boiler that I can use however I need to. All that will be silver solder braised, which I'm reasonably comfortable with.

Then comes the tricky part, getting the steam over to the still. I run a 5500w element on an Auber controller so I suspect it'll put out a lot of steam at full blast. It seems like most use 3/4" pipe to move the steam. Do folks think that will be enough? I'm guessing I couldn't get away with 1/2" though it would simplify a few things.

Most of the rest is just plumbing. Probably a 5 psi pressure relief valve, but if I decide to get fancy I'll do a manometer. I'll probably use a tee and two boil screens on the steam wand itself and probably have a threaded or union fitting to be able to detach it for removal.

The other thing I can't decide on is how to go through a tri-clamp into the still. I'd like to go in where I put the heater element and something like this would be ideal: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ ... double.htm but it's 1/2" and I haven't been able to find 3/4 or 1". Other ideas are drill out a blank end cap and braise in a pipe or maybe something like this if I could find some NPS all-thread: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2f1lp.htm.

Thoughts, ideas and feedback appreciated.

Thanks.

TwoSheds
User avatar
Dancing4dan
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:18 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by Dancing4dan »

Hey TS.

3/4 steam arm will work fine.

What are you trying to do with the tri clamp? Steam inlet or outlet?

Maybe post a sketch of what you have in mind.

Have a look at a couple of build threads on HD.
"What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by The Baker »

Don't forget you can run the steam inlet pipe down the OUTSIDE of the vessel
and have the inlet at the bottom (of the side).
And have a grille/ sieve thingy above the inlet.
Simpler plumbing.

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7654
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by Yummyrum »

The Baker wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:34 pm Don't forget you can run the steam inlet pipe down the OUTSIDE of the vessel
and have the inlet at the bottom (of the side).
And have a grille/ sieve thingy above the inlet.
Simpler plumbing.

Geoff
I think thats what twosheds is planing Geoff . Removing the element and and passing the injector wand through the element triclamp port .

Just reminds me of a warning story of another member that did this . Filled the keg with mash the night before to save time in the morning . Went to start steaming but realised a plug had settled and formed overnight …. Luckily a disaster was averted .

Not saying its a bad method , just be aware of the potential dangers.

If IRC , member now starts steam and adds mash . Fits head to keg while mash heats .

Goes against my personal rules of nit turning on heat until condenser cooling is proven … but hey , I see the method in the madness.
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

Thanks for the feedback/ideas/warnings. I wanted to wait to respond until I could draw up my basic plan. See below. It doesn't represent all the elbows and angles, it's just to show the basic idea. More of a schematic.
Steam.jpg
I've got everything pretty much figured out other than where the steam enters the bottom of the still (below the temp probe.) My current thinking is this:

2" tri clamp -> 1" FNPT fitting clamped on where the heater element would normally go.
1" MNPT threaded -> 3/4 soldered copper fitting.

Something like this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-303 ... le-Adapter

I'm sure the MNPT->copper fitting has stops where the pipe would normally bottom out but I'd grind that back with a Dremel so the 3/4 pipe should slip through it and into the boiler where it would split off to the steam wands.

Make sense?

And yeah, I've been through the whole steam mashing/distilling forum and got lots of ideas. I'm trying to keep it a little simpler by bringing the steam in the bottom as I've seen a couple others do as well, just have this last little bit to figure out.

Thanks.

TwoSheds

(Edited to attach a jpg instead of a PDF)
Eric
Novice
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:03 pm

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by Eric »

20220216_125456.jpg
20220216_125803.jpg
1/2 works fine for me braze 1/2 copper to flat copper pipe flattened then to ferrell soft solder this way temps dont affect eachother. For steam wand use pins i used copper wire for easy removal.
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

Nice looking rig there Eric! I ordered some bits and pieces and I'm going to see if my plan of running the pipe through will work, if not I like what you did to braise that in.

Thanks!
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by shadylane »

I like the ability to remove and clean the steam injector, when the thumper is full of boiling hot mash.
I like to be able remove the entire lid off the thumper, or a fitting big enough to get my my hand inside.
That also lets you clear the blockage on a 2" drain from the inside.
And yes, a corn mash can plug a 2" drain.
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

Got my keg back from the welder and after a few changes in design, mostly to a manometer instead of a PRV, and a long evening of sweating pipes last night the build finally came together.
Image.jpeg
IMG_0865.jpeg
IMG_0866.jpeg
IMG_0867.jpeg
IMG_0868.jpeg
The tee and screened outputs on the steam wand are assembled in the keg before the tri-clamp fitting is tightened.Don't care if they leak a little.

The only thing I'm not crazy about is how the manometer is right on the side of the keg. It shouldn't be a real issue, but I may cut in and add a union which will both push it out a little and make it easier to fill/empty the manometer.

With luck I'll do a leak test tonight with water, then an acid cleaning and hopefully a sac run maybe tomorrow. Should be interesting!
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

Got this cleaned and did an on-the-grain strip with reasonable success. The liquid level in the still got pretty high! I had started 3/4+ full and clearly need to allow more space for the extra liquid (steam condensing) during heat-up.

I also found the level of liquid in my manometer increased some over time. May have been some steam condensing in there. Anyone else have this happen? I might re-plumb to have the manometer come off the top instead of the side to try to minimize this.

For others working on-the-grain with a rig like this, do you charge your steam generator with water or cleared mash?

Also, how are you moving around grain-laiden mashes? I have a Blichmann Riptide pump that seems to crank through milled grains but flaked corn and oats render it near useless. I might try to grind them and see if I have better luck.

TwoSheds
User avatar
Dancing4dan
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:18 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by Dancing4dan »

Hey TS. Congrats on first steam run!

To minimize increasing volume there are a couple things you will need to do.
1) Insulate all plumbing between the boiler and kettle. This will decrease the amount of condensation running to the kettle.
2) My plumbing from the boiler to the kettle is running uphill to the kettle. Any condensation then flows back into the boiler rather than adding volume to the kettle. This also prevents your boiler from running out early. This angle is the reason to run the steam injection through the top of the kettle rather than to low on the side.

My boiler charge is water. Have never tried anything else but cleared wash would work as well essentially making a thumper set up.

Mash, ferment and distill in the same pot. I use a large Anvil SS pot that has a 2" ferrule added to the lid. With your keg having a large ferrule opening you could do the same thing. Might be a pain to empty but adding a ferrule to the side or bottom will make it easier than lifting it to dump it out. Keg fermenters would be easy to have set up and multiple fermenters going at same time that can be switched out to do a steam stripping run.
"What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
tjsc5f
Swill Maker
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm
Location: MO, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by tjsc5f »

Dancing4dan wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:50 pm 2) My plumbing from the boiler to the kettle is running uphill to the kettle. Any condensation then flows back into the boiler rather than adding volume to the kettle. This also prevents your boiler from running out early. This angle is the reason to run the steam injection through the top of the kettle rather than to low on the side.
This is exactly how I set up my thumper/steam stripper, and for exactly this reason.
So far I've only run cleaning runs through it, but I have an AG ferment that just finished earlier this week, planning on running it this weekend. I did the mash and ferment in the thump keg. Planning on siphoning the clear wash to the boiler.
PXL_20220418_003402648~2.jpg
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by TwoSheds »

Thanks gents. I hadn’t considered the angle of the steam pipe and entry point. I do have a 2” fill at the top of the still (Mile Hi design) and I think it would be an easy mod to go in that way. Might play with that idea a bit.

I was also planning to insulate the pipes but I was just thinking about efficiency, now I have a second reason.

tjsc5f, I like the use of the T in your setup with the head coming off the side. Any concern about the product vapor stealing some heat out of the entering steam pipe? Probably minimal if any, but just a thought. Nice rig!
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by shadylane »

TwoSheds wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:05 am
I also found the level of liquid in my manometer increased some over time. May have been some steam condensing in there. Anyone else have this happen?
Manometers have two parallel columns for a reason.
So, you can measure the differences between each side.
With a one-sided mano you can't be sure whether the liquid level is rising due to condensation or pressure rise.

Here's another suggestion. :lol:
Have the manometer above the boiler.
Keep all the plumbing down hill from the mano to the boiler.
Last edited by shadylane on Thu May 26, 2022 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tjsc5f
Swill Maker
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:18 pm
Location: MO, USA

Re: TwoSheds steam build

Post by tjsc5f »

TwoSheds wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:51 pm tjsc5f, I like the use of the T in your setup with the head coming off the side. Any concern about the product vapor stealing some heat out of the entering steam pipe? Probably minimal if any, but just a thought. Nice rig!
Thanks! I've seen people run the copper thump tube through the side of the tee and elbow it down with the column directly on top, but this setup seemed easier to make and assemble/disassemble to me. I never really gave any thought to losing some heat to the vapor. I would think that as long as you have plenty of power to drive it, the losses would be negligible.
One minor drawback of having the column offset like this is the combination of a heavy/tall column combined with slippery PTFE seals is you have to get your clamps really tight to prevent it from rotating forward or backward under it's own weight. Definitely not a problem if you were just going to throw an elbow and condenser on it for stripping.
Post Reply