Steam generator test

Steam powered cooking and distillation devices.

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RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

shadylane wrote:I might be wrong, but if I was wiring it.
I'd connect the ground
I'd connect a jumper from L3 to L2 and connect a 220V hot wire to it
Then Jumper L1 to N and connect the other 220v hot wire to it
There won't be a neutral
I believe that is what the right hand diagram shows for the 220V model. That is the way that I read it also. If ordered for 220V I would assume that the labeling is as shown on the right side diagram. I can't see the labeling in the OPs photo. I can't tell if the jumpers are already installed, I would hope so, but you never know.
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shadylane
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by shadylane »

Good point :thumbup:
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

I just had a thought. From the way that they wired it, I wonder if the 7KW version is really a 10KW version with one of the elements shorted out. I could see that for cost reasons and common parts they might be using a 3phase element i.e. 3 x 3.5KW in their 10KW unit and just short out one of the elements for the 220V version. The wiring would work out if so. If all 3 elements have one side tied to the N connection as shown in the left diagram, and the rest brought out to individual terminals, then wiring is as shown in the right side diagram would have L2 and L3 elements active and the L1 element shorted to itself thus disabling it.

If this is the case, one could activate the 3rd element by either jumpering the L1 (upper N) terminal to the L block. This assumes a large enough circuit and wiring. Another possibility would to run a separate circuit to the L1 terminal and the bottom N terminal.

I can't see the boiler well enough to see if there is only one physical element or not.

edit:

I just looked at the 1st picture again, and I believe this is exactly what they did. Hmmmm. More Power (he says in his best Tim Taylor voice).
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Yummyrum
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Yummyrum »

shadylane wrote:I might be wrong, but if I was wiring it.
I'd connect the ground
I'd connect a jumper from L3 to L2 and connect a 220V hot wire to it
Then Jumper L1 to N and connect the other 220v hot wire to it
There won't be a neutral
Correct shady . This unit is for the rest of the world other than the USA . Your system is a bit "special"
So you ignore the USA nutral wire n this case

Incidentally . The way I seee it is this thing has 3 220 volt elements when run on a three phase system like we have in Australia or Europe . When it is run on single phase , it only uses two of the three elements . It obviously has heaps of redundancy element wise .

I'm only guessing here but what I see is three electromechanical relays that control each of the three elements .
I'm wondering if this will be an on /off type control which will result in surging around the set point ?
Perhaps a more common phase angle controller might need to e used to get adjustable steam output

Edit : posted same time as Hillbilly .... agree
Last edited by Yummyrum on Sat May 27, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

Yummyrum wrote:
I'm only guessing here but what I see is three electromechanical relays that control each of the three elements .
I'm wondering if this will be an on /off type control which will result in surging around the set point ?
Perhaps a more common phase angle controller might need to e used to get adjustable steam output
I would guess that you're right in that it is probably just a bang-bang controller with hysteresis. If it is used as a steam generator for mashing or distilling, the controller setpoints are too low and would have to be disabled. The easiest way that I can see is to do this is to leave the temp sensor in free air and set the controller to the highest point. Temperature control would have to be done manually by turning the generator on/off. A kind of long period bang-bang control algorithm. One could hack up some auxiliary phase angle controllers that would be inserted after the mech relays.

As I understood the main reason for repurposing this unit is for steam mashing, so the thermal mass will be fairly high and the temps aren't that critical.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by piratekev »

Shadylane, I believe you have it correct.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by acfixer69 »

copperlover1 wrote:Backside tag
Tag is for a 230V single Phase so it would be wired as the image on the Right, jumper the two top and connect L1 red and jumper bottom two and connect L2 black to it and earth ground where green lug is. :shock:

AC
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Yummyrum »

I'll second that ACfixer :thumbup:
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Sorry for the delay boys. Jumpers are was I was thinking to. So here we go.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by yakattack »

So when are you going to fire this baby up? If it works well for you I may just purchase the unit rather than build one modeled after the steam dragon.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

And we have lift off. Turned on water. Hooked up electric. Plugged in controller. Flipped breaker. It filled with water and stopped. I turned on the controller and the heat lite came on. I could hear it right away start to heat. It took about three minutes to put out steam. I will time it from cold later. When the water solenoid functions it kills the steam because it let's it in directly to the tank. So I timed it. 25 seconds steam. Water solenoid cycles. Steam dies for about 5-8 seconds. Than full steam again. I ran if for about five minutes. Full test tonight with 25 lbs corn and 25lbs oats.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Swedish Pride »

how did the test go fella, been lurking this thread, nice work so far :thumbup:
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Sorry no test last night. I picked up some extra work to pay for my son's graduation party. It's starting to cut into my fun time. I am going to at least grind up the grains tonight.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Thanks for this thread, without it I never would have known what I was looking at!

Someone just took out a bathroom and piled the trash on the street.
In the pile were 2 steamers. No idea if they're good or not but happy to find them.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

MC holy moly. Your more than welcome to jump onto this thread. I can wait to see the inside of those bad boys.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Working the old coffee grinder this morning.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

50 lbs of crack corn 30 minutes to grind. Before and after.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

50 lbs of rolled oats before and after.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Truckinbutch »

About the grind I aim for and it's working well for me .
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Well boys it was a bust. I set the steam wand in the barrel and started to add warm water. Turned on the steam machine. 2 minutes and I had steam. Closed the valve and put steam to the water. Started thumping away. I added about 10 gallons of water and it was fine. Small delay when the machine adds water and you loose steam for a second. But no problems. Started to add grain. Started to get a little pressure on the gauge. I added grain,mixed with drill and paddle and watched the gauge. And than finally I hit the point of no return. When the steamer added more water the no steam pause was long enough to create a vacuum. The poor steam tank swelled up and my gauge went 5 in vac. Game over.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

copperlover1 wrote:Well boys it was a bust. I set the steam wand in the barrel and started to add warm water. Turned on the steam machine. 2 minutes and I had steam. Closed the valve and put steam to the water. Started thumping away. I added about 10 gallons of water and it was fine. Small delay when the machine adds water and you loose steam for a second. But no problems. Started to add grain. Started to get a little pressure on the gauge. I added grain,mixed with drill and paddle and watched the gauge. And than finally I hit the point of no return. When the steamer added more water the no steam pause was long enough to create a vacuum. The poor steam tank swelled up and my gauge went 5 in vac. Game over.
How about a check valve? Something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000R80P3C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Yummyrum »

Damn copper , thats a bitch .

Here's my thoughts...maybe ramblings :roll:
First off , there is a shit ton of element power ....so there should be no probs making steam .
I wonder about the controller .
What decides that its time to add more water ? , is it a level sensor ? , a pressure sensor ?......just a timer ?

Do the element switch off during adding water ? ....or does the water rush in so fast that it quenches the boiler ?...or both ?

Would slowing down the water feed rate , IE coming in at a trickle help ? ( stick an adjustable valve in the water feed line ) Would it prevent sudden quenching of the boiler ? .....or are the elements switched off during filling anyway so that a slower fill rate would create a worse problem ?

Mate you have a nice boiler system .....there must be a way to keep it producing steam while continually replenishing the water .

Don't give up :thumbup:

And I hope you didn't waste all that grain just to give us the thumbs down :(
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Going to buy the check valve for sure to prevent suck back. The boiler tank is going to be a bugger to flush clean.
There is a level sensor that tells it to add water.
The element stays on when it adds water.
The rush of water half kills the boil just enough to kill steam for a few seconds.
There is definitely enough power to cook with. It was thumping away like a big dog.
I think if I add the check valve and control the water psi/flow in it will work wonderfully.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Not sure about the grain loss. I just read a post about super lazy corm mash with enzymes. Hot tap water and enzymes. Will I got the temp up a little better than tap water before suck back. So fingers crossed.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

copperlover1 wrote:Going to buy the check valve for sure to prevent suck back. The boiler tank is going to be a bugger to flush clean.
There is a level sensor that tells it to add water.
The element stays on when it adds water.
The rush of water half kills the boil just enough to kill steam for a few seconds.
There is definitely enough power to cook with. It was thumping away like a big dog.
I think if I add the check valve and control the water psi/flow in it will work wonderfully.
What about using a hot water feed as well? Perhaps that will allow for a quicker heat up time.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

I thought of that first when I was test running it. It only lets in a little bit of water at a time. I was judging this buy the water puddle on the floor under the steam wand. So I think the water in the line wouldn't stay very warm. But it's and easy thing to put the hot water line to the feed in. Everything helps.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Steam generator test

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

Good luck, sounds like you're on track. If you have the power available, you could hack up another feed and use the 3rd element. But you should be skilled in the art of electron pushing to attempt that.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

I wish I had kept better track of water and grain. Or at least took a sg. It's bubbling crazy.
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by Truckinbutch »

Don't give up the fight .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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Re: Steam generator test

Post by copperlover1 »

Tastes like a lot of vinegar.
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