Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Discussions of fruits, veggies and grains other then just mashing

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Copperhead road
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Copperhead road »

Saltcitystilling wrote:
JBAR9 wrote:Dood-Did you use any sugar in your peach recipe? I've tried it both ways-one time with no sugar and 35+ pounds of peaches, and another time with sugar and I think 25 pounds of peaches (Both making a 5 gallon wash). The no sugar recipe yielded very little alcohol but damn the taste was straight peach-it was awesome. The sugar+peach one was real good though too. I'm gonna have to give those two a go again after my thumper is done being built.

Thanks for the pumpkin pie recipe Bushman. I'll be giving that a go and trying some more recipes out this fall. Can't wait...
I run the peach brandies almost exclusively now and add 3-4 pounds of sugar to 10 pounds of peaches just to get that little bit extra since I have a small still and I want to maximize my time. I usually still only run at about 8% potential but even with the sugar added its like being punched in the mouth with a peach.
To get that “punched in the mouth with peach flavour” are you using a potstill or column still? I suspect a potstill... :think:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Copperhead road wrote:Sorry I just realised I posted this in the wrong section, didn’t mean to plant my peach brandy in Crankys thread.
Sorry :oops:
The fruity goodness thread is open to pretty much anything by anybody I don't regard it as my thread, I'm just the person who started it.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Speaking of peaches, I haven't said anything about this but last year one of the guys I work with who has a couple peach trees tried to make some preserves. His recipe called for using lemon juice to acidify the preserves but it made them very lemony and he didn't like them, so he gave them to me and asked if I could do something with them. Since it was only 12 half pints it wasn't much but I watered it down until it made about 7% alcohol and fermented it. It didn't make much, probably 2 gallons
PEACH 21 APR 18 - C.jpg
It's been sitting for a while now because I haven't really gotten the little pot cleaned up how I want it so I can run it. I really don't expect a whole hell of a lot out of this maybe 150ml (1/3rd pint) at drinking strength after cuts but it will be something from what would have otherwise been thrown out. Because of the added sugar I also don't expect to get much peach flavor so I'm thinking about cheating with the peach flavor and using flavoring when I give him whatever I manage to get.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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We just got back from another trip to Vegas last night which is why I haven't been online. Now that I'm back I can get back to posting and answering questions.
CatCrap wrote:So, is there any kind of product or chemical or anything they use to assist this? Or a specific type of tape? I feel like i've read somewhere, that in some orchards, they would go about grafting all the trees? I'm not sure why you'd do this, but my theory would be that maybe... there's a type of apple or fruit that is really spectacular but takes forever to grow, or doesn't grow very well. So, they'd grow an orchard full of understock that are trees that grow quick and strong and take grafts well, then when ready, graft them all with scions of the apple tree that is really nice apples? IDK, i'm just throwing this out there for something i feel like i may have read long ago.
Kareltje wrote:As far as I know that indeed is the reason to graft: you sow some strong apple for understock and then you take grafts of the specific kind you want to have.
The Baker wrote:Or you want to introduce a more popular variety so you chop off the old ones and graft the new ones onto the stumps.
This is exactly the reason to do it, to get a better, more favorable variety, a stronger root stock that is better suited to the ground the tree is planted in or or make the tree a dwarf rather than a full size tree or to get multiple apple varieties from the same tree and even get ripe fruit for months on end rather than it all falling off in the same week. One of the guys I work with bought a house that has an apple tree with at least 7 different varieties of apples on it.

When you plant an apple seed you don't know what the fruit will be like. There are various factors involved mainly what 2 trees produced the apple to begin with, which is largely up to the bees. Then there is the rootstock which can also contribute to the final seed. So if you want an orchard full of a specific variety, you have to grow a rootstock from seed, when it's a year or two old you cut it off a few inches above the ground and graft on the type you want. This gives you a known variety so you know what you are going to get. I have some I originally intended to just use as rootstock but can't bring myself to do it because many varieties have been discovered as the result of a volunteer tree found growing in an established orchard. So I want to wait and see what the fruit is like before I do my grafting and by then the tree is much too large to do that type of grafting. I also like to have multiple varieties on a single tree so I do what's called topwork which is "The operation of cutting back the branches and top of an established tree and budding or grafting part of another tree on it." This is also why I call the donor tree "understock" rather than "Root stock". My wife wants me to do a tree specifically with half of it being white apples and the other half being black apples so we have a yin yang apple tree :crazy:
Kareltje wrote:For fun you can even graft different races on one tree.
You can but there are certain limits, you can't graft a nut tree to a fruit tree and you can't graft a plum to an apple or apple to a plum. You can graft a pear to an apple or quince or vice versa. In fact most pears are grafted to quince rootstock but grafting an apple to a pear or pear to apple they often have problems with weak joints which can fail if you allow them to produce fruit too soon. which brings up something I think I forgot to mention.

You have to be willing to invest a lot of time into any fruit. Most fruit trees don't even begin to produce until they are at least 6 years old, and even then it will only be a few, so growing them from seeds is a long time consuming matter. I have one or two trees that I am hoping are old enough now to finally begin producing so I can find out what their fruit will actually be like. An advantage to wanting to use the fruit for distilling rather than another purpose is that the worst apples make the best brandy, so small bitter wild varieties actually work well for my purposes :D
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Cranky the essence we have in Australia don’t really taste like natural sweet peach, the stuff I have came across would destroy a nice peach brandy.

What is a good peach flavour alternative or essence???
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Macerating awesome, fresh, sweet georgia (or maybe cali, i actually had some decent peaches from cali too) Peaches in your liquor. Natural, delicious, EASY, cheap, n guaran-dang-teed to taste like peaches.

Cut the peaches up, skin on? I'd have to refer to others on that, but cut em up, probably a large dice, macerate in your liquor of choice (neutral, peach brandy, UJ?, maybe apple brandy.) Choose something that will complement the peach flavor. Macerate for a month, that should add enough sweetness. Then strain and age further.
Basically. Skinning cats n all that. Taste is subjective etc etc.

But a store bought peach additive? Sorry, friend, if they make one that tastes good and not artificial, i haven't seen it. But then i haven't seen many peach flavorings. Maybe because it's hard to replicate the real thing well. Like why Watermelon or Banana "flavored" (even vanilla for that matter) products don't taste like the real deal.

I'd do that maceration if i were u. Even, if you made a strong maceration w/ neutral, then used a few OZ to enhance a all fruit no sugar peach brandy. I dunno.. i've only had a little fruit experience, and from what i've seen, and read, fruit is one of the more difficult fermentables or flavorings to master. Sure, it can be really easy, like strawberry PD. Couldn't be much easier. But making apple brandy, from only APPLEs, well, that sounds like a hell of a lot of work. And as for other fruits, it can be a lot of processing and front end labor, and on the back end, the results, can be pretty tough to acheive. My pineapple brandy did not come through on the spirit run with much pineapple flavor. And i juiced cases of pineapple for that brandy. Gotta be real wise to play fruit right. Easy to lose the flavor
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Today I went out to check on my trees and found this
CHERRIES 21 APR 18 #2 - C.jpg
Those are my cherry trees, they decided to bloom while I was gone and in spite of being heavily pruned this year they look like they may do very well.
Copperhead road wrote:Cranky the essence we have in Australia don’t really taste like natural sweet peach, the stuff I have came across would destroy a nice peach brandy.

What is a good peach flavour alternative or essence???
Ideally no flavoring will be used but I'm thinking LorAnn oil will be the best bet to get peach flavoring although I agree with CatCrap that it's best not to use it if possible but given the extremely small amount I expect to get macerating is not an option and a drop or two of the LorAnn should do the trick to add just a bit of flavor back to it especially on something that has a peach base to begin with.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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CatCrap wrote:So, is there any kind of product or chemical or anything they use to assist this? Or a specific type of tape?
I forgot to address this earlier,
There is special grafting tape and grafting compound to cover the cuts or graft to keep it from drying out while it mends but you can also use electrical tape or some other things like wax, mylar tape or even rubber bands or cut up grocery bags. I use some expired mylar tape that I got from (where else) the trash can at work. All our materials have to be monitored and have a limited shelf life and when it expires we are allowed to take it home. This tape has proven to work very well in my case.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Thank you Catcrap and cranky, all advice is good advice from you guys.
Guess I will have to wait and see how this peach brandy turns out once I run it this week, worse case scenario I will soak some peach chunks in it as catcrap suggested. I am really not a fan of artificial flavouring hence why I prefer to play with fruit rather than to flavour neutral. :thumbup:

BTW I potstilled 120KG of black grapes last week and that turned out sensational, very low yield thought but that comes with adding only a pinch of sugar. Ended up with 4L @ 65% :D
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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CatCrap wrote:My pineapple brandy did not come through on the spirit run with much pineapple flavor. And i juiced cases of pineapple for that brandy.
I haven't done pineapple but most fruit can take a while to show itself again. Basically you have taken the flavor apart and have to put it back together and it takes time for the fruit to find it's way back. The mixed fruit I did on Dec 8th is just now starting to show itself, so give it time and see what develops.
Copperhead road wrote:Thank you Catcrap and cranky, all advice is good advice from you guys.
Guess I will have to wait and see how this peach brandy turns out once I run it this week, worse case scenario I will soak some peach chunks in it as catcrap suggested. I am really not a fan of artificial flavouring hence why I prefer to play with fruit rather than to flavour neutral. :thumbup:

BTW I potstilled 120KG of black grapes last week and that turned out sensational, very low yield thought but that comes with adding only a pinch of sugar. Ended up with 4L @ 65% :D
If I'm doing the math correctly that comes to about 6.5 liters if tempered to 40% so that's about 40 pounds of grapes per liter. That does seem a little low for grapes but then again I seldom actually weigh anything I just figure I get what I get and quality over quantity. One of the good things about grapes is they tend to carry a lot of flavor over.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote:
CatCrap wrote: If I'm doing the math correctly that comes to about 6.5 liters if tempered to 40% so that's about 40 pounds of grapes per liter. That does seem a little low for grapes but then again I seldom actually weigh anything I just figure I get what I get and quality over quantity. One of the good things about grapes is they tend to carry a lot of flavor over.
Thanks cranky, I crunched the numbers also last night and as you have pointed out that’s not to bad. I always chase quality over quantity......
I am left with a lovely tasting grape brandy which is a real flavour bomb and you would find it hard to find that on the liquor store shelf over here in OZ.....
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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I've done grape before and had the same results, lots of flavor carry over. I guess grapes are like that, also you would play hell finding anything here in the US that tastes like anything I make at all as well.

Just for the hell of it, after posting last night I took a glass of my vodka, which has heavy vanilla overtones for some reason, and added a little bit of LorAnn peach flavoring to it just to see what it was like. It wasn't good at all so I also added a teaspoon of sugar to give it some sweetness. Last night it had a smell and taste that was nothing like peach but this morning after sitting open overnight that had all changed. It had begun to smell peachy but still didn't taste very peachy but after sitting another 12 hours it now smells distinctly of peach and has a very peachy taste. This could probably actually be passed off as peach brandy to someone who doesn't know any better, it is actually quite good now and is still crystal clear. I remember reading someones post trying to figure out how someone was making "peach shine" that is crystal clear and tastes like fresh peaches and think this must be how they are doing it.

Thinking about why it took 24hrs to develop I think it must have something to do with the oil really being intended to be used for cooking so something in it needed to evaporate before it actually develops the flavor. Of course I could be wrong about that, after all I was wrong once :lol:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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I forgot to tell you guys about my recent stay in Vegas :D

We had a room on "a private floor" which included free snacks which were in a bowl at the elevators. When we checked in and were told about this the guy checking us in said "Help yourself to as much as you want, it's all free" :shock: There were mints, and candy and snacks like pretzels and a big bowl of bananas, apples and pears and a maid who replenished them as needed :problem: I ate a lot of pears while contemplating a cheap way to get them home, after all he did say take as much as I wanted :moresarcasm: In the end we only brought 2 pears and 2 bananas with us because we expected TSA to make us throw them away :esad: but when we went through TSA they had no problem with it so we could have brought home a big bag of fruit and I didn't :evil: Maybe next time :wink:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote:I've done grape before and had the same results, lots of flavor carry over. I guess grapes are like that, also you would play hell finding anything here in the US that tastes like anything I make at all as well.

Just for the hell of it, after posting last night I took a glass of my vodka, which has heavy vanilla overtones for some reason, and added a little bit of LorAnn peach flavoring to it just to see what it was like. It wasn't good at all so I also added a teaspoon of sugar to give it some sweetness. Last night it had a smell and taste that was nothing like peach but this morning after sitting open overnight that had all changed. It had begun to smell peachy but still didn't taste very peachy but after sitting another 12 hours it now smells distinctly of peach and has a very peachy taste. This could probably actually be passed off as peach brandy to someone who doesn't know any better, it is actually quite good now and is still crystal clear. I remember reading someones post trying to figure out how someone was making "peach shine" that is crystal clear and tastes like fresh peaches and think this must be how they are doing it.

Thinking about why it took 24hrs to develop I think it must have something to do with the oil really being intended to be used for cooking so something in it needed to evaporate before it actually develops the flavor. Of course I could be wrong about that, after all I was wrong once :lol:
Thanks for experimenting and sharing that cranky, I’m a real peach brandy head.... though most turn out well that sounds like a good trick to have up my sleeve should I ever end up with a batch I’m not completely happy with.
Good work :clap:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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OMG Cranky you crack me up. I mean this is the nicest way.. but.. holy shit your cheap. JK man.. seriously.. i don't mean any offense. That's just super funny that your mind went to.. "HOw much fruit can i get away with here?" Fuck.. i'm sure you spent enough on the hotel room and at the slots/tables. They ought to be giving you bags of fruit to take with you. Hey, good for you being frugal and trying to get out what you paid for!! Still cracks me up a bit, pal.

As for the peach flavoring... i really don't have anything pertinent to add. Except, that Oil doesn't evaporate? Maybe reallllllly slowly. But.. i could leave a quart of olive oil out on the table, come back next year, and, well, it would likely be very close to a quart of olive oil. Oils of course aren't only oil(lipids/glygerides etc etc, their also amino acids and other molecules too)

Something is happening for sure here cranky. What it is, i'm not sure. But i think we could learn something about flavors and flavor transfer from your experiment. Pretty fascinating indeed... Could it have been your spirit that created the reaction? What i mean is.. two things. A. if you used (guh.. lord help me) Smirnoff, with Lor-ann flavorings, let it set, and see if it improve or B (far more interesting) Did some kind of chemical reaction happen when you brought these two things together, the Lor Ann Flavoring and your Vodka + time and Oxygen?

Like.. Ethanol + Whatever is in that flavoring + Oxygen X Xamount of time = This result.

Some sort of reaction took place. Something very complex.
That's kind of the fun of this whole spirit stuff, right? Even now..after hundreds of years of spirit production and aging, we still don't FULLY understand wtf is going on in those whiskey barrels over years of time. If we did... either they can't replicate it with time, or, well, they don't really understand what's happening. i have yet to read a full and complete explanation of WHAT exactly is happening in the aging process. With oak or without. Just wtf is really really happening? I've seen a few short explanations on some of the chemistry, but it either went over my head, or didn't really explain it very well. I dunno.. i'm not that sharp a fellah.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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My wife is not mad on spirits but I gave her a gentle sniff of Smirnoff. She said it is horrible.
Then Gray Goose; 'That's not bad....'

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Heh.... what's the difference? A little heads? I'll put my SUGAR WASH (wposw) up against any mass commercial vodka. Ketal, Grey goose, Chiroc (LOL), Titos (all grain! the rep i met at a food show said its 100% corn, and they use wild yeast! Umm.. are you sure..? In Texas?)

Not that i am some fucking neutral master. But... to me... and i'm by no means any sort of neutral vodka snob.... my WPOSW, double distilled, through a CM 40" Column... at 95% ABV... tastes as good as any vodka i've had. I can't include the very high end vodkas, as i've never had them. But it seems exceedingly stupid to pay tons of money for the lack of flavor. Put my dollars to work, dawg... make some flavor. Gimme bourbon. Why does my money need to go toward your 47 plates? Really, i'm prolly speaking out of my ass. Odin would prolly kick me in the ass and say, Well there really is a world of difference from top shelf vodka or well made neutral to bottom shelf vodka and amatuer neutral. But to me... my shit is better just cuz i don't include heads. That simple. Or tails. Mainly cuz of heads. No hangover. Thank you very much.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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CatCrap wrote:Heh.... what's the difference? A little heads? I'll put my SUGAR WASH (wposw) up against any mass commercial vodka. Ketal, Grey goose, Chiroc (LOL), Titos (all grain! the rep i met at a food show said its 100% corn, and they use wild yeast! Umm.. are you sure..? In Texas?)

Not that i am some fucking neutral master. But... to me... and i'm by no means any sort of neutral vodka snob.... my WPOSW, double distilled, through a CM 40" Column... at 95% ABV... tastes as good as any vodka i've had. I can't include the very high end vodkas, as i've never had them. But it seems exceedingly stupid to pay tons of money for the lack of flavor. Put my dollars to work, dawg... make some flavor. Gimme bourbon. Why does my money need to go toward your 47 plates? Really, i'm prolly speaking out of my ass. Odin would prolly kick me in the ass and say, Well there really is a world of difference from top shelf vodka or well made neutral to bottom shelf vodka and amatuer neutral. But to me... my shit is better just cuz i don't include heads. That simple. Or tails. Mainly cuz of heads. No hangover. Thank you very much.
Well said my friend, it’s good to see another home Distiller that’s proud as punch about his hand crafted wares..... :clap:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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CatCrap wrote:OMG Cranky you crack me up. I mean this is the nicest way.. but.. holy shit your cheap. JK man.. seriously.. i don't mean any offense. That's just super funny that your mind went to.. "HOw much fruit can i get away with here?" Fuck.. i'm sure you spent enough on the hotel room and at the slots/tables. They ought to be giving you bags of fruit to take with you. Hey, good for you being frugal and trying to get out what you paid for!! Still cracks me up a bit, pal.
I am well known for being a cheap bastard, Many years ago I overheard a conversation between my son and one of his friends, his friend said "Your Mom doesn't buy anything unless it's on sale and your Dad doesn't buy anything unless it's free!" It really isn't quite that bad but I save money when I can and my favorite kind of fruit is free fruit somebody else picked and there was a big bowl of that on the table every time I walked past it :roll:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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CatCrap wrote:Heh.... what's the difference? A little heads? I'll put my SUGAR WASH (wposw) up against any mass commercial vodka. Ketal, Grey goose, Chiroc (LOL), Titos (all grain! the rep i met at a food show said its 100% corn, and they use wild yeast! Umm.. are you sure..? In Texas?).
Most of those commercial vodkas are just GNS bought from maybe 3 different distillers, almost entirely from corn. Tito’s buys their GNS and runs it through their own pot stills again just to say they did it, but you’ll notice that they don’t have any distillery tours... it’s because you wouldn’t find a flake of grain anywhere on the premises.

They’re not alone, tho. Most commercial vodkas are just re-sold Grain Neutral Spirit.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Not only vodka.Other distilleries use and other spirits are made from NGS as well. Pretty fuggin lame if you ask me. It draws a parellel in the restaurant world. (My world :egeek: ) Warning.. rant approaching:
READ MORE:
My restaurant, while far from fine dining, even though that's where much of my training has been, we are proud to use the best ingredients we can. The best ingredients that make sense. We do Pizza, and other things too like Pastas, sandwiches and entrees, but it's not like we are going to get 28 day dry aged beef and foie gras. But we get damn good EVOO from Cali for 185 a 20L. We could easily just get pomace oil and use that, it's wayyy cheaper. Anyways, my point... is that my restaurant we probably have 13 or so purveyors - suppliers of the products we use. We could easily trim that down, some suppliers we just get one thing from, like ground lamb or wild boar. But to get a better product and produce better dishes, we seek out the best, or at least better, suppliers. Sometimes local, as much as we can for our part of the country, and that makes sense.
Some restaurants only have a couple suppliers. There's an "upscale" burger chain here.. and guess what... they have just ONE SUPPLIER. Of everything!! That supplier is sysco, no surprise there. They get every single thing from them, from to go boxes, to produce, to meats, to their burger buns. Because it's cheap and convenient.

Sourcing the best, or at least better, ingredients, in food or spirits, takes time, effort, labor, training, and most of all, MONEY!! So the spirit manufacturers whom just get in cheap NGS and put a tiny spin of their own on it are producing their own product, but it is hardly unique. It's like if i were to ask, why do some of the guys here on HD Malt their own grains? It's far easier and cheaper to go to the LBHS or interwebs and buy malted grain. The answer is because they can. Because it's part of the craft. Another step you can have control and input on. I applaud them. It is another part of our process a process. ANd we all know our craft/hobby can be complicated and labor intense enough!
But, i got way off Fruity goodness topic here. Sorry about the rant. I just believe in living life with passion and love for whatever it is you do. And if you're passionate about buying in premade NGS and distilling it with a handful of botanicals, calling it Greg's Handmade Artisan Ultra Premium Single batch Gin (Gluten free!) and that makes you proud... well i spose at the end of the day that's all that counts! Now.. it don't impress me much.. but, it doesn't say on the bottle the process they use.. so it takes some research and digging to find out a distilleries practices. Some are even secretive. Try asking about what yeast is used on your next distillery tour. That was the point my tour guide (actually the distiller/owner giving me a tour) clammed up and shut down. He wasn't willing to share more. I think its pretty silly.. even if i was another distillery, or planning to start my own... replicating another spirit is infinitesimally difficult.

I love liquor and food. So so much. And beer and cider. Duh
Now back to the goody fruitness!
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by cranky »

Things are getting a bit off topic and Tater doesn't like that so we need to try to work it back to fruit but at Proof a couple years ago I noticed there were lots of vodka "makers" who weren't doing anything special, pretty much the bare minimum or just bottling. Even the fruit people were making fruit vodka rather than making brandy. I don't know if that is because that's what the public demands or just the easiest thing to do. I know at least one of the big apple producers does that with their excess apples pretty much because they want to make money from what would otherwise be thrown out. As far as Tito's, it really doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize you can't make 150 million cases of vodka a year in small pot stilled batches. Rogue is even worse, they claim to even grow their own grain themselves but someone who toured their distillery a while back actually took pictures of the big container of GNS they were re-distilling.

Now back on subject,

I just tried the peach flavored vodka again. At a little over 48 hours sitting out on the counter it has great peach smell but has lost a some of the peach flavor it had yesterday, it's still there but less and could still be successfully passed off as peach brandy by a less than strictly honest person and I think if the base spirit were peach it could really work out well.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Copperhead road »

Cranky do you always do your peach brandy traditionally, as is never bump it with sugar???

I know I will get clobbered here by the brandy connoisseurs but I have done to odd run of bulk fruit and added just a little bit of sugar and find it hard to pick the difference sometimes between that and a traditional brandy with no added sugar.
Maybe my palate is not fine tuned enough yet to pick the difference between really good and absolutely perfect.....
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by cranky »

Copperhead road wrote:Cranky do you always do your peach brandy traditionally, as is never bump it with sugar???

I know I will get clobbered here by the brandy connoisseurs but I have done to odd run of bulk fruit and added just a little bit of sugar and find it hard to pick the difference sometimes between that and a traditional brandy with no added sugar.
Maybe my palate is not fine tuned enough yet to pick the difference between really good and absolutely perfect.....
I've progressed in brandy making to the point that I'd rather not make it than add sugar but free peaches are an extreme rarity here so this peach preserve wash I'm doing right now is actually the first time I've done them. I have done apples (of course :roll: ) pears, grape, blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, plums, and probably other things I can't think of right now as well as random weird stuff in mixed fruit like Oregon grape, salmon berries, raspberries, and cherries, not sure if I've done straight cherry or not :crazy: and want to do fuchsia berries but haven't collected enough yet. If it's edible fruit I hope at some time in my life to use it for brandy.

I try, and probably fail, to not be one of those "no sugar ever" people but it probably often looks like I am because I frequently answer the question " I made an apple brandy with 6 apples, 35 gallons water and 50 pounds of sugar, why doesn't it taste like apples?" Which happens far too often.

I think fruit that has a lot of flavor like peaches can survive adding a little sugar but mild fruit like apple can really suffer loss of flavor by adding any at all. You can also get a harshness from the sugar and sugar does add it's own flavor though so I personally think it's best not to add sugar if possible. That said, I think Tater's Tried and True recipes for fruit call for adding sugar. Of course the more you add the less flavor you get. The important thing is if you can't tell the difference and are happy with it the opinion of of the purists really doesn't matter.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Copperhead road »

cranky wrote:
Copperhead road wrote:Cranky do you always do your peach brandy traditionally, as is never bump it with sugar???

I know I will get clobbered here by the brandy connoisseurs but I have done to odd run of bulk fruit and added just a little bit of sugar and find it hard to pick the difference sometimes between that and a traditional brandy with no added sugar.
Maybe my palate is not fine tuned enough yet to pick the difference between really good and absolutely perfect.....
I've progressed in brandy making to the point that I'd rather not make it than add sugar but free peaches are an extreme rarity here so this peach preserve wash I'm doing right now is actually the first time I've done them. I have done apples (of course :roll: ) pears, grape, blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, plums, and probably other things I can't think of right now as well as random weird stuff in mixed fruit like Oregon grape, salmon berries, raspberries, and cherries, not sure if I've done straight cherry or not :crazy: and want to do fuchsia berries but haven't collected enough yet. If it's edible fruit I hope at some time in my life to use it for brandy.

I try, and probably fail, to not be one of those "no sugar ever" people but it probably often looks like I am because I frequently answer the question " I made an apple brandy with 6 apples, 35 gallons water and 50 pounds of sugar, why doesn't it taste like apples?" Which happens far too often.

I think fruit that has a lot of flavor like peaches can survive adding a little sugar but mild fruit like apple can really suffer loss of flavor by adding any at all. You can also get a harshness from the sugar and sugar does add it's own flavor though so I personally think it's best not to add sugar if possible. That said, I think Tater's Tried and True recipes for fruit call for adding sugar. Of course the more you add the less flavor you get. The important thing is if you can't tell the difference and are happy with it the opinion of of the purists really doesn't matter.
When I usually refer to a pinch of sugar it’s just that (maybe 3Kg in 100 plus kg of peaches)
It’s funny how people in different areas have access to different fruit, for me here I have to buy grapes but all peaches I get for FREE from a mate who is a middle man in between the grower and the markets seller. Normally he gives me somewhere between 150kg to 250kg of beautiful ripe peaches. Sometimes it’s a 50/50 mix of white and yellow.
free fruit always makes better brandy lol and I hate to see waist.

It bloody funny your Referance to 6 Apple,35 gallons water and 50 pounds sugar lol, but so true......
I find I always use bulk fruit and next to no water ,sometimes a pitch of sugar and sometimes not, thinking I may not add sugar anymore. I have 200L of peach pulp that is ready to run which had NO sugar so keen to see how that one come out the spout. I am not sure wether to run it with my potstill or run it through modular column with 3 plates.... THOUGHTS....... :crazy:

BTW I did a big peach ferment a while back and added a bit or sugar, I was talking to Tater elsewhere and he suggested it’s better not to use sugar if you have access to bulk peaches free. I thought Taterman is a traditional brandy man for the most part. :D

Anyways Cranky sorry for my rant lol I love this thread as I am a fresh fruit head...... it’s an awesome thread :clap:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Kareltje »

Copperhead road wrote:Thank you Catcrap and cranky, all advice is good advice from you guys.
Guess I will have to wait and see how this peach brandy turns out once I run it this week, worse case scenario I will soak some peach chunks in it as catcrap suggested. I am really not a fan of artificial flavouring hence why I prefer to play with fruit rather than to flavour neutral. :thumbup:

BTW I potstilled 120KG of black grapes last week and that turned out sensational, very low yield thought but that comes with adding only a pinch of sugar. Ended up with 4L @ 65% :D
You potstilled that dry mass without scorching?
How did you do that? I would not dare it: filled my boiler with water and put the (almost dry) mass in my thumper.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Kareltje wrote:
Copperhead road wrote:Thank you Catcrap and cranky, all advice is good advice from you guys.
Guess I will have to wait and see how this peach brandy turns out once I run it this week, worse case scenario I will soak some peach chunks in it as catcrap suggested. I am really not a fan of artificial flavouring hence why I prefer to play with fruit rather than to flavour neutral. :thumbup:

BTW I potstilled 120KG of black grapes last week and that turned out sensational, very low yield thought but that comes with adding only a pinch of sugar. Ended up with 4L @ 65% :D
You potstilled that dry mass without scorching?
How did you do that? I would not dare it: filled my boiler with water and put the (almost dry) mass in my thumper.
I don’t have a thumper, my potstill has a centre drain but has a stainless plug that I can screw in from the inside to prevent pipe underneath filling up and scorching.
As long as you bring the still up to temp on a nice low flame nothing ever gets scorched. (Despite how low the heat is a still will always eventually come up to temp)
I have bought a boiler full of pulp with the consistency of brickies mortar without any scorching what so ever.....done this many times.
guess it’s another beauty about running gas
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by cranky »

Copperhead road wrote:free fruit always makes better brandy lol and I hate to see waist.
Yep, and free fruit someone else picks is the best :D
Copperhead road wrote:It bloody funny your Referance to 6 Apple,35 gallons water and 50 pounds sugar lol, but so true......
That of course is a bit of an exaggeration, although I think I once saw that exact recipe. It's amazing that people think they can only add a little bit of something and get a product that tastes like fresh fruit.
Copperhead road wrote:I am not sure wether to run it with my potstill or run it through modular column with 3 plates.... THOUGHTS....... :crazy:
I catch a lot of crap from the flute guys for my opinions on them, but I did use mine exclusively for a year and have gone back to the pot still for the fruit. With fruit I personally find the product out of the pot still is just better all around and the cuts are much easier.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote: I catch a lot of crap from the flute guys for my opinions on them, but I did use mine exclusively for a year and have gone back to the pot still for the fruit. With fruit I personally find the product out of the pot still is just better all around and the cuts are much easier.
Thanks Cranky, that’s pretty much my thoughts exactly.......
(but I want to run that past a very experienced brandy Distiller such as yourself)

I have an all copper 4” CCSC 5 plate modular flute with all the bells n whistles, extended Lynne arm blar blar blar..... but I can never seem to get the same flavours from fresh fruit pulp washes as I can with my trusty old plain Jane potstill, period.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by CatCrap »

Yes my vote is for the pot still as well.

Cranky, the guys who try to use fruit as an adjunct and a ton of sugar... two thoughts on that...


1st, there probably are just a few VERY strong flavored fruits that would be effective in that method. And perhaps they think that fruit can be used like adjuncts in other recipes, like with grains or rums etc. Like how a pretty small amount of molasses can have a big impact in rum flavor. Or a small portion of smoked malt can affect a mash bill. OR how about the Honey Bear Bourbon Recipe? I haven't tried it myself yet, but i'm always surprised by that one, because it seems like the HOney malt is used in such a tiny proportion of the grain bill, how can it have such a big impact on flavor? But, no one seems to complain about that recipe. So i guess my point is just that some folks perhaps are making the mistaken assumption that light flavored fruits, like apple or pear, will have a very intense effect on their spirit. Sorry i can't seem to think of any better examples, fruit or otherwise, of adjuncts/fermentables that a small portion of the total fermentables will have a big big impact.

Second, it's a lot of work, and can be a very big expense, to do an all fruit or almost all fruit brandy. Many fruits take a lot of processing and can be prohibitively expensive. Like for example how we discussed a Raspberry Eau or Brandy, and that it would take hundreds of pounds or hundreds of dollars worth (if bought) of Raspberries to get enough to do even a small size ferment. And, hey even if you did 2 5 G ferments then a spirit run, or a 1.5X... you're not going to yield much spirit.

I think we on HD correctly try to push newer folks to get over the very-small still/ferment size. Makes your work more efficient and cuts much much more manageable. No offense to big bob... but, when i see folks going into this with a 5 Liter still.. i almost see it as a waste of time, or that they would have more success and enjoy the hobby more, and have an easier time learning, if they just try to get to a certain minimum size of equipment. I think there's just a threshold to hit to make all things work out better.

For me, i have an 8 gallon kettle. That means 6-7 MAX fill. So, my 25Liter fermenters are just about the perfect size for a run, when you account for what is lost to trub, or to grains or fruit pulp. So, when these guys are talking about getting into fruit, they're sort of trying to make it worth their time, in a way. Like how when someone is just learning about All Grain, and they're told by some of the AG gurus here, that an AG in the 5-8% PA range is just right.. don't push for more. So, a lot of people getting into this have been misinformed by Turbo yeasts and chasing ridiculous high ABV washes. I'm trying to remember the exact post the other day i read.. but the New member here (it was a very old post) said "So, i'm working on my neutral wash and it will ONLY(emphasis mine) be a 15% Abv wash."
I thought... ONLY!? LOL...
Anyways, hope ya get my drift.. that while it is reasonable to try to do things in an efficient way to maximize your resources and equipment, and make it worth your time and effort, it is a fine line to be crossed. To always keep in mind our number one goal here on hd is (besides safety!) Quality OVER Quantity. And that's where the sugar fruit conundrum comes into play. FWIW, in my limited experience, i think it can be ok on strong flavored fruits to boost ABV with a small percentage of sugar. And it sounds like on APple, pear, or other light flavored fruit, if at all possible, go for only natural fruit sugar, but if you absolutely must, a small percentage of the fermentable sugar can be table sugar. But if the majority by far is NOT coming from the fruit, well don't even bother. Just make neutral or macerate, or save your fruit until you have enough, or make smaller batches. This is basically how i have understood what Cranky has said about this topic, many times. Again, as far as i have understood it. At least that is how i have interpreted your posts Cranky. Don't want to be putting words in your mouth, no offense intended. That it isn't a travesty or tragedy to boost your abv with sugar.. but make sure that A it is only a boost, and B you really must use sugar. Better to stick to 100% fruity goodness whenever possible.

So, i want to do a cherry brandy. I have access to Dried cherries at a very very reduced rate. They're normally 7.50/#, i can get for much less. But, like i said they are dried cherries. They are quite sweet, so i think a ferment using only their natural sugar is feasible. But, the fact they are dry, i believe would require an extra step or steps to the ferment. Like to rehydrate them basically. I could pour boiling H20 on them and let it sit for a day to plump them up and rehydrate.. but i'm just not exactly sure what my method should be. If anyone here has any suggestions, i'd love to hear.. What would be my best strategy for using Dried fruit to make a brandy or Eau? They work really well for maceration... but that is a Vodka-Cherry infusion. Not a brandy. I want the flavor to come from fermented fruit sugar, not to be added later.
THanks, CC
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