Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Discussions of fruits, veggies and grains other then just mashing

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Bushman »

Just ran my new apple crusher to test it out and my wife made a video and posted it on FB. One of my friends just messaged me and said he would bring over a free crate of apples for me. He said he would have to bring it in the back of his 4x8 trailer and leave the trailer unless I had a forklift to get it out. Guessing a crate is pretty large.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Bushman wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:03 pm Just ran my new apple crusher to test it out and my wife made a video and posted it on FB. One of my friends just messaged me and said he would bring over a free crate of apples for me. He said he would have to bring it in the back of his 4x8 trailer and leave the trailer unless I had a forklift to get it out. Guessing a crate is pretty large.
Nice Bushman! If it's what I think it is it should run about 1,000 pounds.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Thats should keep you out of trouble for a while Bushy :thumbup:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by cranky »

The apple is now past it's foamy phase and is now happily bubbling away. The pink stuff is getting foamy but I don't think it will get as foamy as the apple, at least I hope it wont. I'd like to measure the amount of CO2 in that bathroom which I think might be getting kind of high but it sure smells good.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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I started thinking about what I'm going to do with this additional 50 gallons of juice I picked up the other day. Since it was free I think I'm going to give a yeast I've never tried a try so I've been looking into yeasts for apple brandy. Not surprising there seems to be little legitimate info out there...at least that I can find, so I figured I would see what I can find in cider making. There is a lot of "I heard this one" out there and not that much actual testing.

So I started narrowing things down based on what I want from the yeast. Essentially I want a yeast that leaves a lot of fruity esters and apple flavor with no hydrogen sulfide. While figuring it out I stumbled upon a study of the differences in fermentation of reconstituted concentrated apple juice Vs unconcentrated juice. I though the findings were interesting.
( https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/9/10/1401/htm )
study wrote: Industrially prepared apple juice concentrate was successfully applied in this study to observe the differences in cider fermentation in comparison to fresh apple juice. The process of clarification and concentration was shown to affect the concentration of initial amino acids and malic acid—both increased significantly after the treatment. In terms of fermentation kinetics, the concentrate was shown to be slightly inferior at higher temperatures to the fresh apple juice, most likely due to the partial loss of nutrients. Such was also evident from the fructose consumption patterns. As expected, the increased malic acid concentration in the concentrate increased also its consumption by yeast. The production of volatile esters was also affected by the use of the concentrate. When using the concentrate all yeast strains under study showed increased production of long-chain fatty acid esters (ethyl decanoate, ethyl dodecanoate) which might signify a higher cell death rate in the cider samples fermented with the concentrate. Increased synthesis of isoamyl acetate was also noted in the samples fermented with the concentrate which could be attributed to the higher concentration of leucine in it, which is a precursor for isoamyl acetate synthesis. This effect was, however, specific to the species of the yeast used as was noticed mainly with S. cerevisiae strains. No differences in the hydrogen sulfide related off-flavor formation was observed between the fresh apple juice and the concentrate. In conclusion, the use of the apple juice concentrate can result in rather similar cider fermentation kinetics and quality as in the case with fresh apple juice; however, the fermentation might require additional nutritional supplementation to compensate for the loss of some nutrients and support the viability of the yeast cell.
One thing mentioned in the study but not in that little quote was this.
study wrote: No notable differences in hydrogen sulfide production (reaction on the test strip) could be observed between apple juice and concentrate. The addition of nutrients prior to fermentation did not reduce hydrogen sulfide formation and, in some cases, even promoted it. For example, hydrogen sulfide production increased with the addition of a nutritional supplement in ciders fermented with Y5 yeast (S. cerevisiae with killer factor). The increase, however, was intense enough to produce a perceived off-flavor only in the case of DAP addition.
Not being a very sciency person when it comes to fermentation I'm not sure how that should affect my choice of yeast but I found it interesting. I have fermented store bought juice in the past and have mentioned how it is lacking something in the final product over home pressed but this is the first I've seen a real scientific study, even though it's not strictly the same because ordinarily if I were to ferment store bought juice it would be "Not from concentrate" but since this Minute Maid is from concentrate it applies to this particular instance.

Another factor is ease of getting the yeast. Last time I stopped at a brew shot to get yeast, it was not a pleasant experience. I like to browse when I go into a brew shop but thanks to the covid lockdown the brew shop is limiting people to pre ordering and when you walk into the store you can't actually browse you just pay for your order, he hands you a bag and you leave. The problem with this is their website doesn't actually have any inventory information on it so you are ordering blind or trying to deal with ordering blind over the phone which doesn't work for me. When I went there I was unaware of their procedures and just went in but they had all but a small area blocked off. The shop was accommodating and let me order in person but I didn't have a list so was just going off the top of my head which was not what I wanted to do. So now since their website says they are still requiring preorders I'm just planning on getting my yeast from Amazon, which I hate to do but it is the convenient thing.

So with all this swimming around in my head I'm currently favoring Cider house select
( )
because from what I've read it adds a lot of the characteristics I will want in a final product and might help compensate for the things store bought juice tends to lack, especially the "from concentrate" juice.

Of course there are the other popular yeasts to consider. Everybody seems to like Nottingham for cider and I've been planning on using Nottingham at some point but my research seems to indicate it may not produce the esters I'm after.

Then there is Safale S-04 which is very popular for cider but also doesn't seem to produce the esters I'm after. I have actually used S-04 twice now and not been very pleased. The first time it was so slow to start that I wound up pitching another yeast out of fear of getting an infection before it kicked off. The second time I got sloppy and got an infection as a result that was no fault of the yeast.

The last one I was considering was Mangrove Jack M02, which works well at my temperatures and is said to produce great apple flavor, esters and aroma "reminiscent of flowers or fruit" which sounds like the kind of thing I'm looking for so it is a real possibility.

I haven't committed to anything yet so if anybody has an opinion I'm all ears.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Sound Home brew just a bit up the street from where you work is implementing covid safety on a safe and sane level, just wear a mask and browse all you want! They are good people and they keep their website pretty much up to date on the yeast in stock.

Good luck with all that juice!

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Oldvine Zin wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:18 am Sound Home brew just a bit up the street from where you work is implementing covid safety on a safe and sane level, just wear a mask and browse all you want! They are good people and they keep their website pretty much up to date on the yeast in stock.

Good luck with all that juice!

Stay safe
OVZ
Looks like a nice place although a little North of my usual traveling area. My son has another appointment at Harborview in a couple weeks which will leave me with 4 hrs on my hands to wait for tests to be finished so I might go spend that time running to see what they might have that can help me. Their prices sure look cheaper than Amazon.

Damn I miss Larry's brewing :esad: It was just so convenient for me.

By the way, I got one more case of apple juice today :roll: I just can't help myself, or stand to see good fermentables go to waste.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by stillanoob »

I like the MO2. I used EC 1118 the last two years and it gets really dry and seems to lose more apple character. The first year I thought it might somehow be that year's apple mix. Downside is that I can only get it in small packets in this country. I contacted Mangrove Jack to no avail. However, I'll just make a starter as I always have. It is just frustrating as they do make 250g packs, I just can't get one.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by still_stirrin »

cranky wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:23 pm Damn I miss Larry's brewing :esad: It was just so convenient for me...
Gosh, there’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. I remember stopping in his Kent shop while in town for work. He was such a colorful character. We’d visit while sampling some of his homebrews. That had to be nearly 30 years ago. Great guy.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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still_stirrin wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:16 am
cranky wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:23 pm Damn I miss Larry's brewing :esad: It was just so convenient for me...
Gosh, there’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. I remember stopping in his Kent shop while in town for work. He was such a colorful character. We’d visit while sampling some of his homebrews. That had to be nearly 30 years ago. Great guy.
ss
I liked the Kent location by the railroad tracks, when they moved to Tukwila the place seemed just too big, then one day they were gone :(

I mostly dealt with their son. One day I was in there getting stuff and he asked me if I was making Bourbon. I was surprised and didn't know what to say and he said "It's ok, we don't care what your making." By contrast I went to a place in Tacoma called "The fermentation initiative" and my wife said something about brandy and they about had a cow saying "That's distilled, distilling is illegal!" and I had to downplay it. I've never gone back and don't plan to ever go back.

As mentioned above I didn't like my experience with the place in Puyallup either but now that we are in Phase :problem: :think: whatever the hell it is now... maybe some day they will let people in to shop :roll:

That's the real problem, the south end is much easier for me to do stuff then anything north of Seatac but hopefully I can find time to go down to Sound Home Brew and see what I think of them.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:15 am I liked the Kent location by the railroad tracks, when they moved to Tukwila the place seemed just too big, then one day they were gone :(

I mostly dealt with their son. One day I was in there getting stuff and he asked me if I was making Bourbon. I was surprised and didn't know what to say and he said "It's ok, we don't care what your making." By contrast I went to a place in Tacoma called "The fermentation initiative" and my wife said something about brandy and they about had a cow saying "That's distilled, distilling is illegal!" and I had to downplay it. I've never gone back and don't plan to ever go back.

As mentioned above I didn't like my experience with the place in Puyallup either but now that we are in Phase :problem: :think: whatever the hell it is now... maybe some day they will let people in to shop :roll:

That's the real problem, the south end is much easier for me to do stuff then anything north of Seatac but hopefully I can find time to go down to Sound Home Brew and see what I think of them.
The folks at sound are pretty cool and don't ask or assume. I think that they know that I'm not a beer brewer just because what I buy and the vague answers I give them when they ask :D 75 gallons of unpasteurized apple juice - no problem, while most of their customers buy grains by the pound and I buy by the bag - no questions asked, the only time I got a raised eyebrow was when I bought a 55 lbs bag of honey malt, hey I like the flavor that it gives my brew :)

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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I see Sound has pretty decent prices by the bag, I might have to get one and finally do that single malt whiskey I've been wanting to do.

In apple news I got the 6 carboys in the bathroom topped up and they are bubbling away. I also got my blue Arrowhead and Kardashian carboys cleaned and about ready for the next batch of juice whenever I get that yeast. Those two tend to be the last ones I use because they are some of the most valuable. I prefer to use the cheap ones first, then the valuable ones last. I should sell them and use the money to buy more carboys and other supplies, maybe that bag of malt...or a Badmo barrel :problem:

So now I need to get the ladder out and get the rest of the carboys down and clean them, then put Mrs Cranky back to work emptying cans.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by cranky »

Finally got the last of my carboys cleaned today
CARBOYS 09 apr 21 #6A - C.jpg
My plan is to make it to Sound Homebrew some time next week and pick up some sanitizer and that cider yeast and get most of the rest of this apple juice fermenting. My plan is to try to get it all run off in June before apple season starts but there is a complication in our lives that may require us to convert our garage, and thus my distilling space, into an apartment soon, which could cause a real problem as far as booze making.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:17 pm require us to convert our garage, and thus my distilling space, into an apartment soon, which could cause a real problem as far as booze making.
Damn that sucks! Do you have room for one of those 10 x 10 sheds ?

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Oldvine Zin wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:17 pm
cranky wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:17 pm require us to convert our garage, and thus my distilling space, into an apartment soon, which could cause a real problem as far as booze making.
Damn that sucks! Do you have room for one of those 10 x 10 sheds ?

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Or a lean-to?

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Oldvine Zin wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:17 pm Damn that sucks! Do you have room for one of those 10 x 10 sheds ?

Stay safe
'OVZ
The Baker wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:08 pm Or a lean-to?

Geoff
Over the past couple years I've mostly built an 8x14 shed (8 x 16 if you count the porch and loft) but it's already mostly full. I probably have room for another one but can't get electricity to it. It could potentially be used for fermenting, at least part of the year and I have enough extension cord that I can actually run the still in the living room if I plug it in in place of the clothes dryer. It's not what I would prefer to do but I seldom get to do things the way I would prefer them, that's just life :roll:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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My wife kicked me out of her metal storage cabinet where she keeps her empty canning jars. In the past I had the bottom two shelves to store my grain and Panela. I built two more shelves after moving my stuff so he has an additional 4 shelves. All my stuff is stored now in my fermentation cart in the outbuilding when not fermenting. When in use I will have to move the bins into my shop, I guess anything to keep the other half happy.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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My slow and steady accumulation of fermenting gear over the last 3 years, to which I've now added a still means that I actually have "permission" to build a new space for fermenting and distilling as it will get all of this "stuff" out of the house. I have to finish the extension to the house first though, and I need to work out whether I want tap water desperately enough to hand dig a somewhat complicated trench all the way to the shed... I think I may just be carrying jerricans of water for ferments and using filtered rain water for cleaning. I would very much like to have it in place for some fruity goodness later this year though.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Today I managed to get to Sound Homebrew. Nice place, well organized and didn't hover over me in spite of me being the only person in the store. They had the Cider House select yeast I want to try which is why I went there but it's kind of expensive so I didn't buy as much as I would if it were one of my regular yeasts. I figure I can make a starter out of it and get the 50 gallons of juice taken care of. I also bought some 1122 which now seems to be called just 71B. It's one of my fermenting staples. I'm actually considering making 30 gallons with the Cider House and 20 with the 71B and see how the cider compares before distilling.

While I was there I was looking around and noticed the soda flavorings. I've thought about flavoring vodka with it before so I figured what the hell. Mrs Cranky likes flat cream soda so I figured I'd make up a bottle of cream soda vodka for her and see what she thinks.

I also got some more sanitizer so I can get all my carboys sanitized, then I need to put Mrs. Cranky to work opening all those cans.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:37 pm Today I managed to get to Sound Homebrew. Nice place, well organized and didn't hover over me in spite of me being the only person in the store.
Glad you had a good experience there Cranky.

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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

Post by MechEngineer_81 »

Oh man this thread is an awesome read. I just skimmed all 66 pages! I too live in the apple state but on the east side of the mountains in hop and apple land. I have so many things I want to try with the fruit around me but I think I need to get more fermentation area cleared out. Come apple season this fall I can get more free apples from my neighbors than I could handle. Looks like I need to build myself a good grinding and juicing setup!
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Oldvine Zin wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:21 pm
cranky wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:37 pm Today I managed to get to Sound Homebrew. Nice place, well organized and didn't hover over me in spite of me being the only person in the store.
Glad you had a good experience there Cranky.

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OVZ
Me too, they were so much better than the places I've been to to the south. I actually considered buying a bag of malt to try to finally get some whiskey done but pretty much I have my hands full with all this apple juice and maybe some panela. I have next week off to get the garage cleaned and the rest of the apple fermenting my hope is to get it started within the next week and run off all this apple in June when I will have another week off. Then of course the transparents, Vista Bellas and a few others come ripe in July but I don't know if I will even get the chance to do anything.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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MechEngineer_81 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:21 pm Oh man this thread is an awesome read. I just skimmed all 66 pages! I too live in the apple state but on the east side of the mountains in hop and apple land. I have so many things I want to try with the fruit around me but I think I need to get more fermentation area cleared out. Come apple season this fall I can get more free apples from my neighbors than I could handle. Looks like I need to build myself a good grinding and juicing setup!
My advice is start planning and building now because fruit season will be here before you know it.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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The European plums decided it is a good time to bloom. So did the pears and cherries. The apples are just starting to bloom. It's very odd that all the fruit trees are blooming at the same time, they normally stagger it out.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Here, are the elders and black berries and black currant flowers very small and green. The grape has some tiny buds. We had very good weather and then a few night frost, so I was a bit anxious. But it seems that the frost made no harm.

I don't live in a area where grape are common but the last 10 years we see more and more vineyards booming. About 1km from my house, there is a guy who started a smallvineyards. I visited him while he was pruning. We had a very nice conversation and he gave me 7 "branches" (don't know the right term in English) so I can try to grow them. I'm very happy because it's a sort which is difficult to find as non-professional. It's called Solaris, it is "new" and it is some special kind because it doesn't need any chemical treatment while giving a good harvest. I'm very excited because I was looking for it without success and then: boom here it is!

2 out of 7 are growing, I hope to have 7 out of 7! :angel:
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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By the way my "all berries brandy" from next year that I thought I had ruined with my bad nose due to the corona virus, turned out much better than expected. With some time to rest it developed subtle fruit aromas, my brother finds it one of my best brandy...so far. So I'm motivated for this years to make a better one!
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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cranky wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 pm My advice is start planning and building now because fruit season will be here before you know it.
Oh tell me about it. The apple trees in our yard are blooming like crazy right now. We have 16 randomly around our property that have been growing wild. It will be interesting to see how they produce.

Spring hit hard and fast this year in the Yakima valley. Couple growers I know say this should be a good year for fruit.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Here most of the fruit trees are blooming now, or have withing the past week.

The cherries and pears are almost done blooming
Cherry 22 APR 21 #2A - C.jpg
Cherry 22 APR 21 #4A - C.jpg
The Asian plums were in full bloom last week so they are about finished too.

The Karen's Delights I grew from cuttings began blooming for the first time yesterday :D
KD 22 APR 21 #2A - C.jpg
KD 22 APR 21 #3A - C.jpg
I'm very excited about that even though I know they won't be producing yet.

My blueberries are the only thing not doing so well and I really don't know why but one looks like it didn't make it through the winter and although the others look like they survived it looks like they aren't doing very well. Everything else is doing outstanding and I expect it will be a very good fruit year.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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I over fertilized my blueberries last year and got zero blueberries for the first time. Hoping it will be better this year. On another note tomorrow we process the crate of apples will try to document it if I don’t get too busy.
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Re: Lets get carried away with fruity goodness

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Bushman wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:10 pm I over fertilized my blueberries last year and got zero blueberries for the first time. Hoping it will be better this year. On another note tomorrow we process the crate of apples will try to document it if I don’t get too busy.
I'm looking forward to seeing how well that new grinder of yours does.
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