we had the opportunity to push our tests to the limit, acquiring the services of a yeast separating centrifuge, De Laval brand. We have been experimenting with this centrifuge for a few months, and we can say without fear of error that the results obtained so far fully meet all our requirements and even our demands. Below we will give the results obtained with this device in the separation of solids and elimination of “tufo” working with cane juice baticións:
That explains why, in large part, why over the years in making sugar shine, I cleared the wash as well as could be done, by racking it a few times, and adding clarifier, I ended with some very nice neutral..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
MtRainier wrote:Now that I'm doing indirect heat and can have whatever I want in the wash without scorching
I wouldn't be to concern with clearing if you are using stream or a double boiler setup.. I'm of the view it more oriented towards direct heat..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
Clearing definitely helps when trying to make a neutral with a wood fired potstill
On a side note. I love it when someone supplies a valuable link
Thank you SMY
Interesting read SMY. I think I need to read more of Arroyo’s stuff cauz everyone drops his name but I never know what the hell they are talking about.
Maybe I’m not on the same page, but I’ve never had issues with keeping the yeast out of my rum charge. Seems like by the time my rum ferment is done there is nothing but a thin layer of sediment and the rest looks pretty clear to me. (Dark, but clear). From a 35-40 gallon ferment I can rack off all but about a gallon with no sediment. Is that sediment what ya all are talking about, or is there a second clearing that I’m missing because I don’t let this sit long after racking?
MtRainier wrote:Darnit. Now that I'm doing indirect heat and can have whatever I want in the wash without scorching there's a new reason to try to clarify it, heh.
Don't look at it that way
Now you have a reason to build a centrifuge
They are literally removing all yeast cells that did not floculate. It's not simple clearing, it's complete removal. In "Whisky: Technology, Production and Marketing" they mention that Yamazaki and some other Japanese whiskey house both clarify purposefully to increase esters. Which up to now was always a conundrum as I thought that some yeast would be good for ester production.
I don't think people should jump to the conclusion that its going to be the end of the rum world if you don't clear the wash.
People have been making some very nice rums for several hundred years without clearing washes completely.
Some people may like the flavor that yeast in the wash leaves in the distillate.
Personally Ive always tried to let mine settle for a few weeks and left what rubbish I can in the fermenter.
It would be a boring world and an even more boring hobby if we all made booze that tasted the same using the same methods and liking the same flavors. Arroyo printed a lot of good stuff about rum but that doesn't mean we all have to start using centrifuges to make decent Rum.
I agree Salty . And also lets not forget that we have the luxury of having time to settle washes . Commercial guys need to go straight from fermenter to still so a centrifuge is pretty much the only option .
The way I read it, Tufo is more an an issue for continuous distillation than for pot stills. A home distiller taking a foreshot off the stripping run already gets rid of quite a bit of the low boiling point nasties before it goes into the pot for the spirit run, so I won't be rushing out to buy a centrifuge yet.
Saltbush Bill wrote:that doesn't mean we all have to start using centrifuges to make decent Rum.
YES IT DOES! ARROYO SAID SO! I HAVE SIX ON ORDER RIGHT NOW!
I agree. The reason I post these is so that we have more information to understand how different processes affect flavors of spirits. It's another tool for the distiller to use in guiding the development of their own spirit. If everyone used the same methods to make the same spirit I would consider it a failure. I love to see people post up "I am going to do X then Y then Z..." that makes me happy.
I know where there is a suitable centrifuge I could borrow and I could buy one tomorrow for about $300, so trying this is an option, but I'm not convinced by Arroyo's research that going to the trouble and expense of clarifying is going to make a significant difference to a non-commercial home pot distiller. If you were running a Jamaican style double thumper or a continuous column, I could see some value.
It may make a difference to those who run platers, but I don't so I'll leave it to them to comment on that.
He also advocated clarifying the molasses too. This gave him a very clean rum. To understand this he worked for Bicardi whose focus was creating a clean white rum that could be sold without aging. While we regard him for high ester rums processes, it was more of an off shoot of what not to do for a clean rum.
You can use a WVO (waste oil) centrifuge to achieve the same results. This would work for both clarifying molasses and the wash post fermentation. I think it's a bit much but if your thing is DYI then there's tons of tutorials out there.
One possible method for yeast separation is crossflow membrane filtration with backflush. I have seen that used in commercial brewery as yeast removal process.
Syke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:40 am
1-micron filter pretty much removes all yeast. That's cheap and easy to procure and utilize.
I did order parts for 1-micron water filter system with backflush option and I may test how it works for wash filtration
10" water filter cartridges are almost cheap and cartridge housing and L-type tree-way valves from china are neither expensive
Yes in commercial brewery waiting to yeast settle takes too much time but I don't really see using centrifuge for separating yeast as cost efficient method. High production rate centrifuge would be expensive I think it is perhaps more usable in hobby scale using batch method but too expensive. Cheaper method is filtration but maybe quality is a tad lower but should be good enough
As far as I understand Arroyo wanted to make flavorful rums. He even talks about competing with the Jamaicans. He further states that he feels batch distillation yields a better product than continuous.
He already had the centrifuge to pretreat his molasses, so for him the additional cost was lower.
And perhaps most importantly, he recommends a different yeast culture than what everybody uses, perhaps that yeast culture gives more undesirable flavors when it's not cleared from the wash?
I don't take everything he says as gospel truth. But I would like to experiment, as soon as I have a viable source of good molasses...
