Shady's Sugar Shine

[TwoSheds]

Thanks NZC. That makes sense. My bag of shells fell into the trub this time so I don't think I'm getting it back until it's time to distill...

[artooks]

Hi,

24 hours has passed to see the first results of the experiment.

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.37 grams citric acid / liter + 4 grams oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.3
Day 1: SG: 1.041 - PH: 3.78
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.07

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid - No oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.30
Day 1: SG: 1.050 - PH: 3.00
Day 2: SG: 1.040 - PH: 3.07 added 1 gram cc now the ph is: 4.07

Very interesting results, first I can see that bringing the wash to 5.3 PH at the beginning of fermentation with citric acid, created a better environment for the yeast so it consumed more sugars and brought the gravity to 1.041 in 24 hours whereas without citric acid the gravity reached to 1.050, on the other hand not using using oyster shell as a ph buffer really took the PH down from 7.3 to 3 which is a %58.9 decrease in 24 hours, quite shocking I was not expecting that, this really got me concerned as I think it will stall after 1-2 days, lets see, But Batch 1 which started with 4 grams Oyster shell started at 5.3 and is now 3.78 which is a %28.6 decrease we can clearly see that the oyster shell is doing its job as a ph buffer. In this case all I can say is, if I am going to use powdered CC I could start adding upfront at the beginning or I can add after 24 hours.

[BrewinBrian44]

Artooks,

Great to see the scientific approach on your methods. Tracking ph and gravity will give you a really good understanding of what’s happening in the fermenter.

Again, my use of powdered CC is non-scientific. Opposite of my brewing routine, which I’m very technical. I’ve found distilling is much more forgiving as you aren’t actually drinking the finished wash. Same principles still apply, but with a little more wiggle room, like sanitation. As Shady eludes to in this recipe, good booze out the pipe is a product of healthy fermentation.

For my water, the powdered CC works well and gives me similar results to what I achieved when using oyster shells, without the need to deal with them after the ferment. I’ll be honest, I may go back to them to see if I can detect a flavor difference or a better performing ferment.

I’m very curious what the flavor and cuts differences will be between both your batches. Nice work!

[artooks]

Day 2, it looks like Batch 2 has experienced a PH crash, so I added 1 gram CC and this increased the PH from 3.07 to 4.07 now the fermentation resumed, will see the results tomorrow, I updated the above Gravity and PH results.

[bitter]

Day 2, it looks like Batch 2 has experienced a PH crash, so I added 1 gram CC and this increased the PH from 3.07 to 4.07 now the fermentation resumed, will see the results tomorrow, I updated the above Gravity and PH results.

Ideally figue out what your water needs to avoid the Ph crash next time. more often ph crashes the least happy your yeast will be and % keeps will suffer as a result when you do your cuts. Sounds like your lacking calcium in your water so you need more oyster shells to help buffer things as the yeast drop the ph.

B

[MtRainier]

Ideally figue out what your water needs to avoid the Ph crash next time. more often ph crashes the least happy your yeast will be and % keeps will suffer as a result when you do your cuts. Sounds like your lacking calcium in your water so you need more oyster shells to help buffer things as the yeast drop the ph.

This is good advice. I don't think you can really have too many crushed shells (within reason). Boil them with your yeast, and they'll even be sterile. They won't cause the pH to go too high because they only dissolve and add carbonate ions to raise pH when the wash gets acidic. If you were adding sodium carbonate or bicarbonate directly you'd drive it higher, but by adding calcium carbonate (in shell form) you're just adding a source of buffering that will prevent it from plummeting.

Someone here, don't remember the name, even would put old slabs of marble in their wash and watch it dissolve over subsequent washes.

[artooks]

Day 2, it looks like Batch 2 has experienced a PH crash, so I added 1 gram CC and this increased the PH from 3.07 to 4.07 now the fermentation resumed, will see the results tomorrow, I updated the above Gravity and PH results.

Ideally figue out what your water needs to avoid the Ph crash next time. more often ph crashes the least happy your yeast will be and % keeps will suffer as a result when you do your cuts. Sounds like your lacking calcium in your water so you need more oyster shells to help buffer things as the yeast drop the ph.

B

thanks but I intentionally made this batch to see at which point the ph will crash, so this is an experiment and added cc at day 2 today I will check on it again.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Someone here, don't remember the name, even would put old slabs of marble in their wash and watch it dissolve over subsequent washes.

That was me, of course! Lol.

viewtopic.php?t=65703&start=30#p7478320

[artooks]

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.37 grams citric acid / liter + 4 grams oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.3
Day 1: SG: 1.041 - PH: 3.78
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.07
Day 3: SG: 1.005 - PH: 4.35

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid - No oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.30
Day 1: SG: 1.050 - PH: 3.00
Day 2: SG: 1.040 - PH: 3.07 added 1 gram cc now the ph is: 4.07
Day 3: SG: 1.023 - PH: 4.27


As you can clearly see that the ph crashed in Batch 2 in day 2 so as a result of that I added 1 gram CC to this 1 liter batch, and instantly the fermentation resumed, as if it was waiting for CC but what really amazed me is Batch 1 as I stated before, I used citric acid and lowered the initial PH to 5.3 I think somehow that speed up the fermentation duration, below I will compare it to my usual fermentation gravity results, I will call it Batch 3. That is a bigger batch of course so everything is same as in Batch 1 except Citric Acid.

Batch 1: 30 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 100 grams oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070
Day 1: SG: 1.050
Day 2: SG: 1.030
Day 3: SG: 1.010

So at Day 3 Batch 1 is 1.005 and Batch 3 is 1.010, not much of a difference but Batch 1 is slightly better in terms of gravity drop.

[artooks]

I do not think that you need Multivitamin, If I am not wrong Shady also excluded it from the recipe, instead you can use boiled yeast which is a great meal for yeast.

Multivitamins definitely makes a difference on most sugar wash recipies.
But it doesn't seem to be needed on this one.
Also, some multivitamins stink or taste bad.

Dear Shady,

Do you use any vitamins in your recipe recently, ?

[shadylane]

No, not recently.

[artooks]

No, not recently.

Me neither, under normal conditions, without vitamins, it goes dry in 6 days, but now by lowering initial starting ph to 5.3 it will probably go dry in 4 days today we will see in my experiment. thanks

[shadylane]

Thanks for experimenting and sharing the information.
Keep us posted on the pH, especially after the fermentations with shells in it are done .
To see what effect the shells have on how long, before the pH rises back into bacteria's happy range.

[artooks]

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.37 grams citric acid / liter + 4 grams oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.3
Day 1: SG: 1.041 - PH: 3.78
Day 2: SG: 1.025 - PH: 4.07
Day 3: SG: 1.005 - PH: 4.35
Day 4: SG: 1.000 - PH: 4.46
Day 5: SG: 0.995 - PH: 4.57

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid - No oyster shell
Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.30
Day 1: SG: 1.050 - PH: 3.00
Day 2: SG: 1.040 - PH: 3.07 added 1 gram cc now the ph is: 4.07
Day 3: SG: 1.023 - PH: 4.27
Day 4: SG: 1.010 - PH: 4.31
Day 5: SG: 1.002 - PH: 4.28



Hi,

This is the last updated results, in Batch 2 since there was no sea shell in it the ph drop quite fast at the beginning and PH crashed on day 2 to PH:3.07 so I added 1 gram cc per liter due to that I lost 1 day in fermenting, at Day 5 the first batch is 0.995 and the second batch is 1.002 there is a 0.007 point difference which probably caused due to the ph crash but when I look at final ph results Batch 1 with sea shell started to show a gradual increase from 3.78 to 4.57 which shows that leaving sea shells in the wash increases PH and risk of infection due to that, but in Batch 2 where I added powdered CC at day 2 increased from 4.07 to 4.27 then 4.31 and finally today 4.28 which is much more stable in that sense.maybe 1 gram per liter is just what it needs ?but when we throw in a sea shell the amount could be too much where it dissolves, in my case the sea shells was 4 grams in weight whereas in Batch 2 I only added 1 grams, so Batch 1 is 4 times the amount.

[artooks]

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.37 grams citric acid / liter + 4 grams oyster shell

Day 6: SG: 0.992 - PH: 4.63
Day 7: SG: 0.991 - PH: 4.75

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid - No oyster shell

Day 6: SG: 0.996 - PH: 4.36
Day 7: SG: 0.994 - PH: 4.41


I can call it finished, but it is very clear to me that adding powdered CC 1gr/liter with citric acid ( the amount will vary due to the composition of your water) will be ok, so my next experiment now will be in 2 batches again everything will be the same but I will add powdered CC to both of the batches upfront but will only add citric acid to one of them, so see if the acid really helps or not needed at all. But as you can see adding CC at a low amount will keep the ph to the end of fermentation quite stable, it still goes up but not as fast as the one with oyster shell.

[shadylane]

Don't be like me and spend so much time experimenting that you run out of personal drinking liquor.

[artooks]

Don't be like me and spend so much time experimenting that you run out of personal drinking liquor.

Well luckily I am making 1 liter batches so nothing to worry too much )

[artooks]

Hi,

I have just started a new experiment with Shady's Sugar Shine recipe, two identical batches Both of them contain, Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast but this time I am not using oyster shell instead I will use 1 gram Calcium Carbonate per liter in both of them so the only difference between the two is one of them has citric acid and the PH is adjusted to 5.3 and the other one does not have citric acid that is all, here I want to see if powdered CC will work and keep the PH stable after 24 hours.

Batch 1: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + 0.70 grams citric acid / liter + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 5.33
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.14

Batch 2: 1 liter Shady's Sugar Shine: ( Dap + Epsom Salt + Boiled Yeast ) + No citric acid + 1 Gram CC / liter.

Day 0: SG: 1.070 - PH: 7.50
Day 1: SG: 1.045 - PH: 4.52


I am using citric acid to start with a PH around 5.3 which the yeast likes but I am not sure if that helps the fermentation to go faster, it looks like in both batches the gravity is 1.045 so I cannot say that citric is helping here, I must mention that my tab water ph is around 6.85 - 7.00 but when I finish making the wash I calculate PG again before pitching the yeast and the PH is 7.50 so adding CC and other ingredients increased the PH, but what I can say is with powdered CC 1 gram per liter, really works as a buffer because normally after 24 hours without CC the ph was 3.00 in my last experiment but here it is 4.52 with the batch without citric and 4.14 with citric acid. so I believe this is working and I am really wondering if It will go dry without any CC addition along the way I will let you know, but it looks promising.

[Royalwulf]

looks like a lot of experimenting going on since I last came here.
i use 2 large shells I find at the beach and with my last wash one of them crumbled in my hand where it was sturdy going in.
Anyway my question is, with 8.1l low wines + 0.6 l water to get to 40%. How muuch hearts should I get roughly? Using a pot still.

[shadylane]

...
Anyway my question is, with 8.1l low wines + 0.6 l water to get to 40%. How muuch hearts should I get roughly? Using a pot still.

Roughly, that sounds like a unit of measurement I'd use.
For potstilling and depending on greed, I'd gestimate around 6L after cuts and diluting back to drinking strength.

[Royalwulf]

...
Anyway my question is, with 8.1l low wines + 0.6 l water to get to 40%. How muuch hearts should I get roughly? Using a pot still.

Roughly, that sounds like a unit of measurement I'd use.
For potstilling and depending on greed, I'd gestimate around 6L after cuts and diluting back to drinking strength.

Ta so my 3.6 l is low. I got a lot of heads, any thoughts on why?

[NZChris]

From my pot still I would get around 4.6l, but I'm pretty ruthless when doing the cuts and have been experimenting to find efficient methods of turning the feints into better neutral than the pot stilled heart cut.

My latest experiment was to add slaked lime to the feints to pH 6.8, then I got called away for about three weeks. When I got back, the feints were surprisingly nice, very clear and good enough for sipping at 40%. I even considered using them as they were, but couldn't bring myself to do that because if something is too good to be true, it probably is. I decanted them off the precipitate and ran it through my pot still instead of my Bokakob, (which was the plan), and was blown away by the yield. I'm using it for high end gin that I usually make using refluxed neutral.

[Royalwulf]

From my pot still I would get around 4.6l, but I'm pretty ruthless when doing the cuts and have been experimenting to find efficient methods of turning the feints into better neutral than the pot stilled heart cut.

My latest experiment was to add slaked lime to the feints to pH 6.8, then I got called away for about three weeks. When I got back, the feints were surprisingly nice, very clear and good enough for sipping at 40%. I even considered using them as they were, but couldn't bring myself to do that because if something is too good to be true, it probably is. I decanted them off the precipitate and ran it through my pot still instead of my Bokakob, (which was the plan), and was blown away by the yield. I'm using it for high end gin that I usually make using refluxed neutral.

interesting, when you say feints is that heads and tails? thanks

[Waterbelly]

From my pot still I would get around 4.6l, but I'm pretty ruthless when doing the cuts and have been experimenting to find efficient methods of turning the feints into better neutral than the pot stilled heart cut.

My latest experiment was to add slaked lime to the feints to pH 6.8, then I got called away for about three weeks. When I got back, the feints were surprisingly nice, very clear and good enough for sipping at 40%. I even considered using them as they were, but couldn't bring myself to do that because if something is too good to be true, it probably is. I decanted them off the precipitate and ran it through my pot still instead of my Bokakob, (which was the plan), and was blown away by the yield. I'm using it for high end gin that I usually make using refluxed neutral.

Slaked lime to feints? Why try that over lye? Or soda ash? Or lye? Lol from what I’ve read rye is too efficient not to use on a feints>>neutral run.

[NZChris]

I haven't tried treating sugar shine low wines with calcium hydroxide yet. That's next on my list, but I have a good stockpile of neutral at the moment, so it may be a while before I get around to it.

Chances are, someone has already done this experiment but I didn't find it.

[NZChris]

Slaked lime to feints? Why try that over lye? Or soda ash? Or lye? Lol from what I’ve read rye is too efficient not to use on a feints>>neutral run.

I've chosen to experiment with slaked lime because that's what H. H. Cousins was using to make Lime Salts.
viewtopic.php?t=70947

[Yummyrum]

Slaked lime to feints? Why try that over lye? Or soda ash? Or lye? Lol from what I’ve read rye is too efficient not to use on a feints>>neutral run.

I've chosen to experiment with slaked lime because that's what H. H. Cousins was using to make Lime Salts.
viewtopic.php?t=70947

I’m a little confused as to what that has to do with Neutrals and /or Shadys Sugar Shine

[Saltbush Bill]

I’m a little confused as to what that has to do with Neutrals and /or Shadys Sugar Shine

And I thought it was just me

[NZChris]

Cousins was using lime to extract flavor and concentrate it for later use. I'm trying lime to extract flavor and discard it. My first Sugar Shine experiment worked better than I had hoped for.

[Saltbush Bill]

Maybe you could consider taking that to a different thread then.