Shady's Sugar Shine

[NZChris]

While you are on holiday, keep an eye out for blocks of marble and seashells. Any solid form of calcium carbonate is useful.

Careful Chris
Nek minut derelict headstones and marble doves and Angels will be offered as sacrifices to the spirits .


OK , now I’m imagining a Meme where there is a pic of collapsing of the Sistine Chapel while
Mum and Dad are explaining to customs what the chunk of marble pillar is for…….

A monumental mason is likely to have a suitable offcut. viewtopic.php?t=64169

[Ndb]

If i cant get this going again, what are my options?

Run it when you get back home next week.
It might surprise you and ferment some more while you're gone.
The shine might not taste as good as it should have.
But you'll have something to drink as punishment while brewing another batch.

I can safely say the batch was rescued.
Ran it and it is smooth as.
Got me plenty of shells too

[shadylane]

I bet the next batch will have less drama.

[Hebden]

If you want a really nice neutral.
Do 2 stripping runs, dilute to around 20% abv
Then run it in a reflux column

Shady, are two strippers required when running a packed reflux with SPP also?

[Saltbush Bill]

I think he meant to strip two lots of wash....to give you a worthwhile volume of low wines for the spirit run.

[shadylane]

If you want a really nice neutral.
Do 2 stripping runs, dilute to around 20% abv
Then run it in a reflux column

Shady, are two strippers required when running a packed reflux with SPP also?

When I said "Do 2 stripping runs" I meant distill two pots full of wash.
That way you'll have 2X the low-wines to work with.

If you only have one pots worth strip that, dilute and reflux distill.
I think even with SPP, stripping first makes a better neutral.

Reflux runs can last for hours, I think it best to quickly strip first so the spent yeast doesn't spend hours getting boiled.

[Scott Tracy]

Reflux runs can last for hours, I think it best to quickly strip first so the spent yeast doesn't spend hours getting boiled.

I have wondered about this. Though I have not had much trouble refluxing pretty cloudy washes, seems like it must be better to avoid boiling that residue for ages.

For stripping runs in a plated column, would you de-tune the column (remove plates and/or sections) or just run it with the reflux condenser off for the strip? That would still use the plates, but send way less back down the column and speed up the run.

[shadylane]

For stripping runs in a plated column, would you de-tune the column (remove plates and/or sections) or just run it with the reflux condenser off for the strip? That would still use the plates, but send way less back down the column and speed up the run.

Either option would work.
If it was easily done. I'd probably remove a plated column for the stripping runs.
With a packed column, I'd leave it on and run a little bit of reflux.
The run time would only increase slightly, while also holding back tails.

If you can keep the nasty's in the boiler to be drained out.
There's less of it to contend with during the spirit run and cuts.

[NZChris]

A pot still head and condenser is cheap and easy to build and to strip with. Add on a preheater and the strips are even quicker and more economical. For SSS, I would never ferment less than three strips worth.

I usually do a pot still spirit run and keep a narrow heart cut for simple gins, then use a packed column to tidy up the feints to make my cleanest neutral.

I've never run wash for neutral in a reflux still. The advice to strip first always made more sense to me, partly because you are choosing your heart cut from a much larger volume of spirit, partly because you have already gotten rid of nasties from both ends before you charge the still.

[Saltbush Bill]

For stripping runs in a plated column, would you de-tune the column (remove plates and/or sections) or just run it with the reflux condenser off for the strip?

Running with the plates in works just fine if you turn the water to the Deflegmator off.......Ive stripped that way many times.
Having said that Ive only experience with perforated plates , Ive never tried it with bubble caps.......but presume it would still work.
Perf plates will rarely if ever load without reflux........that might not be so with caps.

[Scott Tracy]

Thanks lads. I really do appreciate the feedback from guys who have walked this road a long time.

Salty - I know my bubble caps stay loaded when I close off reflux for tails (I typically shut down reflux and collect to feints at the first sign of degradation of quality, and add the feints to the next wash rather than get greedy). That doesn't necessarily mean the column will load without reflux, particularly since this is with a 50cm scrubbie packed column on top of the plates, which likely gives an element of natural refluxing. But I'll check that point next run.

My dirty secret is that I've been making neutral with turbo yeast on un-inverted sugar, hardly cleared before being decanted into a single 6 plate + packed column for a single reflux spirit run (no strips, 4" column). I do use fermentation temp control (26C) for the wash, and then I dilute the 95% distillate to 45% and slowly charcoal filter. I get a pretty solid 41% vodka result with low effort and excellent yield.

The result is totally fine. Great mixer, no off flavours, happy to drink it. I'll freely admit that I am not a "super taster" so maybe I am just easily pleased. But since I can make kegs of this stuff easily, who doesn't want to improve?

So I'm thinking about the 80/20 issues - I am sure things can improve but is the upgrade worth the effort? I read this thread and decided to try a 45L ferment of this recipe (following it strictly) and I am interested to compare the result. Proportionate ingredients, Lowan's baker yeast, 29.5C temp controlled fermentation.

My plan is to decant the finished wash (off the shell grit) and leave it generous time to clear in another fermenter without calcium carbonate. I'll then strip through a 6 plate column (no packed column on top, and no reflux) to low wines down to NZChris's system of <40% wines, or <15% in the parrot. Depending on quantity, I'll dilute to below 40% (i.e. low enough to be safe or volume to cover my elements, whichever comes first) and then run again with 6 plates, plus the 50cm packed column, refluxing as usual for neutral. My rig gives me close to azeo this way on an uncleared turbo wash, so should be fine for a pre-stripped low wine.

Dilute distillate to 45% and then filter part of it, and then compare the unfiltered part, filtered part and prior vodka. Maybe I'll get someone with decent taste to try the results as well.

Thanks again for the feedback. It really does help.

[Seattlite]

Thanks Shady.
Anyone know the typical range for original specific gravity (OSG) with this recipe?

[NZChris]

Thanks Shady.
Anyone know the typical range for original specific gravity (OSG) with this recipe?

Each to their own. I aim for 1.064. If I need more alcohol, I use a bigger fermenter.

[shadylane]

Anyone know the typical range for original specific gravity (OSG) with this recipe?

Each to their own. I aim for 1.064. If I need more alcohol, I use a bigger fermenter.

Plus one NZ

I think 1.5 pounds sugar per gallon is the absolute max.
More than that, is progressively more stressful to the yeast.
That's not good, the yeast will piss more nasties and be prone to stalling.

It's tempting to start with a higher SG, but getting the lowest final gravity is better.
A little less sugar is good in the long run, because after cuts, Ya has more liquor in the bottle.

[Bushman]

I agree with the lower SG especially with AG fermentations. I often refer to a quote from rad on the subject that explains it better than I can.

As for your SG question, not sure where you got the 1.050 figure from but there are reasons for keeping the SG down... While many strains of yeast can tolerate a higher SG not all can... And when you consider that SG can be correlated to %ABV you have another issue... Higher SG's can cause the yeast colony to suffer osmotic stress which can slow, stall, mutate, cause autolysis, cause off tastes and/or smells, or a multitude of other problems... And as the wash ferments the higher %ABV can also cause most of these same problems... For that reason we have, through practical experience, determined that a potential %ABV of 14%, or a starting SG of ~1.092 to ~1.100 to be the practical maximum... Going higher just adds stress to the yeast colony... Some folks stay well below that level, especially when doing all grain mashes... The unfermentable solids of the AG mash are the main reason for keeping the SG lower as they tend to keep the SG higher throughout the ferment, especially when fermenting on the grain... So, sugar washes at higher SG and potential %ABV are more forgiving for sugar washes than all gran mashes...

Hope this helps...

[shadylane]

" For that reason we have, through practical experience, determined that a potential %ABV of 14%, or a starting SG of ~1.092 to ~1.100 to be the practical maximum... Going higher just adds stress to the yeast colony.."

14%
It's going to take some tricks for 14% to finish dry.
I'd expect drama.

I think 10% is the max for sugar a wash.
Here's an example of two washes, both start out at 1.058 and have 10% potential alcohol.
The only difference is how well the fermentation went and the alcohol made.

OG 1.058 with a 0.980 final gravity makes 10%
OG 1.058 with a 1.000 final gravity makes 7.5%

[Seattlite]

Do folks make adjustments for weight of powdered corn sugar vs beet/cane sugar?
I've seen reference to 10% delta (corn sugar lighter- so add more)..

[shadylane]

Do folks make adjustments for weight of powdered corn sugar vs beet/cane sugar?
I've seen reference to 10% delta (corn sugar lighter- so add more)..

Good question. Just guessing.
There might be a difference in fermentability and/or weight, depending on the sugar source.
But I don't think it's critical enough to make any adjustments.

[GABrew]

I am in the process of doing stripping runs on this recipe and thought I would share my experience so far. This is also the largest wash I've done (~35 gallons) so thought I would share how it's going.

I used 10 lb bags of organic raw sugar I got from Costco. (https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signatu ... 34874.html) I started with 50 lbs of sugar and dissolved it into ~33 ish gallons of water. Original gravity was 1.070.

The only thing I added to the wash was some fermaid, epsom salt, DAP, and oyster shells. Started fermenting well right away. On about day 3 things started to slow down, but didn't stop, and gravity was still high. Temps were too low (75 ish degrees) so i bought an aquarium heater and brought things up to about 86, added more yeast and some more fermaid and things picked way up. Strong ferment for about another 5 days and eventually finished dry after 7 days total to about .997.

My pony keg boiler and homemade copper head / Leibig seem to be imparting some off-flavors, so borrowed my friends copper pot still, which unfortunately is only about 3-4 gallons. So I've got a ways to go, but here were the results on the first stripping run of 3/4 gallons of wash:

5:50 PM - charge still and add heat (gas stove) starting temp 75 degrees
6:55 PM - First drops of product - vapor thermometer reads ~160 degrees (take first 150 mils as fores)
8:30 PM - Tails begin - temp is 205
8:43 PM - Remove heat / finished 35% at last reading

I collected just under 1/2 gallon of product, and the blended (no cuts / stripping) product is 50%abv. The product is sweet, mild, and very drinkable, surprisingly so.

I guess I'll keep at it in 3/4 gallon batches until I work my way through all 30 gallons .. or maybe I'll convince the wifie we need a bigger boiler / still

Anyway - Just my experience so far...

Result of run 1

Still Setup 2

worm

Still Setup

[shadylane]

There's different versions of fermaid, some has DAP, some not,
But all of them use spent yeast for nutrients.
I'd recommend boiled fresh yeast instead of fermaid.

[GABrew]

Thanks. I'll give that a try next time. Although I was really pleased with how it turned out this time. Will be thrilled if it's even better next time.

[shadylane]

Did you use Fermaid K with DAP in it?
If it was K then you added DAP 3 times.

[Wildcats]

Love this recipe!!! So easy to do. Just put another 20 gal ferment together last night and it's going like crazy. Will be adding to my low wines so I can run reflux.

Thank you Shady

[shadylane]

You're welcome.

[Wildcats]

Less than 72 hours and my ferment is down from 1.069 to .998. Smells so good. Will be stripping it this weekend. Love this recipe!!

[LordL]

About boiling yeast to get amino acids though..
Everyone boiling yeast should read all of this:

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php ... -nutrient/

[Sporacle]

Make your own conclusions based on that article.
This recipe is in the Tried and True for a reason, personally I will continue with the recipe to the letter, never failed, never stalled, never measured pH, never adjusted pH.
Always finished and always made a good clean neutral.

[Goose]

I tried this recipe (without the vitamin tabs) and got to 0.98 from a 1.092 start. For a 25l wash I used 6 kg of sugar, 1/2 tsp gypsum and 1/2 tsp epsom, plus a tsp of Fermaid AT, and used two tablespoons of oyster shells. I also used 100g of bakers yeast. Water was RO, and a room temperature ferment (28 C). Simple as that. The resulting spirit was clean tasting and bright. Very happy after a pot followed by a spirit run.

To note, I found this recipe is far superior to Birdwatchers imho which I used to use many years ago. The performance of this wash eclipsed Birdwatchers which I always struggled to get below 1.10. I suspect this was pH caused ( I did not use oyster shells at that time) or the use of lemon juice or choice of tomato paste for nutrients (which I swear I could taste in the spirit), though I know many others swear by this recipe with no issues.

[shadylane]

About boiling yeast to get amino acids though..
Everyone boiling yeast should read all of this:

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php ... -nutrient/

Here's the easiest and simplest way to make nutrients for a sugar wash.
Bring a pot of water to boil, turn off the heat and stir in bakers yeast.
Let the pot cool until it's safe to carry, then dump in the fermenter.

[Wildcats]

About boiling yeast to get amino acids though..
Everyone boiling yeast should read all of this:

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php ... -nutrient/

Here's the easiest and simplest way to make nutrients for a sugar wash.
Bring a pot of water to boil, turn off the heat and stir in fresh, active bakers yeast.
Let the pot cool until it's safe to carry, then dump in the fermenter.

This is by far the best, hands down , can't be beat..
Sugar wash recipe on the planet. I have 20 gals been clearing for a week. So dry, smells so good. Will strip it this weekend. Looking to run reflux with a 10 gal charge of low wines (I have 5gal SSS @40*/*) Absolutely love this recipe.