Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[NormandieStill]

So the first batch finished up at 0.994 (according to the iSpindel) and after it had sat there for a few days, I decided that it was done and left it another week to clear. For the minute, my fermenting room is an upstairs office and I have to cart my 25L washes down the stairs in order to run in the kitchen so it got a little bit shaken during prep but had fairly compacted lees, I think I managed to get about 23.5L out before it started sucking up sediment. I stripped it hot and hard (3kW electric element) and it was running nice and clear when suddenly as the collected low wines got down to around 45-50% (I collect into a SS saucepan with a mini alcometer in it and when I strip the distillate comes out at around 40C so the abv is always a little bit of an estimate) the distillate came out cloudy. Not oily, but cloudy, like it had just puked. It seems weird to me that it would puke at the end of the run as opposed to the start.

I literally changed nothing once the run was properly started. 3kW and enough cooling water to be coming out hot and leave the top of the liebig too hot to touch.

When I transferred the low wines to the 5L demi-john I'm using to store them there was actual sediment at the bottom of the pan.

I'm not overly concerned. I'll run the other two batches next week and maybe start another one or two. If I get 3L of low wines at around 50% then 3 batches gives me a bit under 12L in the boiler for the main run. I'm looking to run about double that to get a decent size batch of neutral (ish) for playing with gin and fruit infusions. All in that'll be just shy of 25kG of sugar! I'm going to have to make some friends at the nearest sugar refinery at this rate.

[CoogeeBoy]

I literally changed nothing once the run was properly started. 3kW and enough cooling water to be coming out hot and leave the top of the liebig too hot to touch.

When I transferred the low wines to the 5L demi-john I'm using to store them there was actual sediment at the bottom of the pan.

I'm not overly concerned. I'll run the other two batches next week and maybe start another one or two. If I get 3L of low wines at around 50% then 3 batches gives me a bit under 12L in the boiler for the main run. I'm looking to run about double that to get a decent size batch of neutral (ish) for playing with gin and fruit infusions. All in that'll be just shy of 25kG of sugar! I'm going to have to make some friends at the nearest sugar refinery at this rate.

Hi mate,
Those numbers seem about right to me, 3l but I get higher average ABV. I use TTFV, about 6kg of sugar for a 25l wash so 25kg should do 4 washes and 12l or so.
My cooling water has come out as high as 60C on a strip run but I like to keep it a bit cooler to keep the neutral cooler. I have noticed louching if I turn my back and the cooling water gets too hot but I can't explain it.

What I was going to say is that during lockdown last year, we were only allowed to buy 2 packets of sugar (any size) at any one time so I had to buy 2*2kg each time I went to the supermarket. Aldi did sell 25kg bags here but I now get them from a mate of mine who runs a fudge shop, makes toffee etc. Might be an avenue to explore for cheaper sugar.

He also tells me that different brands have different cooking qualities which I found interesting but I expect those differences will not affect the brewing outcomes......or maybe they might?

Anyway, good luck with it all and I look forward to hearing about your finished product!

[NormandieStill]

I've just finished my 5th and final stripping run taking me to around 16.5L (very much guesstimated!) of low wines at around the 45% mark. I'm going to dilute them down to around 35% (depending on the final cumulative abv) and they will be the inaugural (non-sacrificial) run on my CCVM.

Interestingly every single stripping run has puked at exactly the same point. I wasn't paying attention at the right moment as my other half called at just the wrong time, but on the two previous runs I could hear the bubbling from the end of the liebig and by turning the power down I could coax another half litre or so without getting any wash coming over. If I'd got my sight glass finished in time I'd have been tempted to stick it on just to see what was happening. The last wash was perfectly clear. I buggered up the siphon near the end and ended up sacrificing the last litre because I had just stirred up the lees.

[NormandieStill]

Spirit run done (twice*). I ended up with 1.25L of good clean hearts at 95% (not completely devoid of flavour, but not unpleasant and no nasty bite or burn). I have 2 extra jars from each side of that cut which may be usable, but I didn't want to throw them in and ruin the neutral. This doesn't feel like an amazing yield to me.

I ran 5 washes of 25L (Allowing for lees, probably around 24L in the boiler). The first wash, which I monitored closely (with an iSpindel) ran to a final abv of about 9.5% giving me around 2.28L of ethanol per wash for a total of 11.4L. At the end of my stripping runs I had 7.5L of ethanol (That was a choice, to finish early and try and leave the flavour behind in the backset). Of that 7.5L I finished up with about 2.75L of heads (at 95.5% abv), 1.25L of hearts and 0.5L of questionable stuff which may or may not be useable. Does this seem reasonable? Normal? Do I need to tweak my method somewhere?

Edit to add: * I ran the first spirit run, slowly increasing the power until the abv started to drop. This took me to about 2L/hour coming off a 2" CCVM. When I came to blend it appeared that the tails had smeared heavily, so I dumped the first 750ml (strong heads) and rediluted the rest and then ran it again slower.

[bunny]

Hi!
I'm just another novice so most everything I write is suspect.

Your numbers seem to indicate you are running way, way too fast everywhere.
You have 16.5l of 45% strip. That's just short of 2 gallons @100%.
You ended up with 1.25l 95.5% hearts that were not flavorless.
Your total was 2.75l heads, + 1.25l hearts + 0.5l? = 4.5l.
What happened to the last 3l?

At what speed (collection rate- ml/hr) did you collect the foreshots and heads?
2l/hr seems very fast to me.

[NormandieStill]

I tasted a few jars as they were coming off the still during the first spirit run, and having clearly hit the tails, I pulled the plug. The final 3L remained in the still. Various comments had led me to believe that re-running heads and tails from reflux was fruitless so once in tails it was worth stopping.

I increased the speed with each jar, starting at around 500ml/hr and I think I hit 2L/hr by jar 8 (collecting 250ml per jar). So fores and a good part of the heads came out at less than 800ml/hr.

When I dumped everything back in the boiler (apart from the first 3 very headsy jars) and re-ran, I never exceeded 700ml/hr. Kimbodious frequently quoted 1.2L/hr as a good rate from a 2" CCVM, so 700 should have kept me in the clear. I've got a reasonable feel for running the pot still, but the ccvm still feels very much like I'm fumbling in the dark.

[dragon9874]

I have been working on a simple recipe for a neutral sugar wash without a bunch of extra stuff in it to cause flavors,and this is it.Its real simple.

thx Wineo! love my BW, but def wanna give this one a shot.

[Evil_Dark]

Started a Wineos wash yesterday. Got my head mixed up, so I added by mistake a crushed multivitamin tablet.
Probably not much of an issue, but I suspect that It will give me a bit of additionnal flavors in the final spirit... As the Centrum multivitamins are very tasty (not a very a good taste...).
Anyway I will see the results soon

Thanks Wineos!

[Yummyrum]

It won’t make any negative impact … if anything it will help .
Just so long as you didn’t use one with fish oil in it . I used one of those by mistake and I couldn’t get the fish stench out .

[2timezDRUNK]

I’m having trouble converting the 6 gallon wash to a 50 gallon wash. I’m coming up with something like 800 grams?? That’s like 2# of yeast…. Also the yeast I choose is the 48hr fermfast; should I use all turbo or mix in some Red DADY?

[acfixer69]

I’m having trouble converting the 6 gallon wash to a 50 gallon wash. I’m coming up with something like 800 grams?? That’s like 2# of yeast…. Also the yeast I choose is the 48hr fermfast; should I use all turbo or mix in some Red DADY?

I think you should do a lot of research. Tried and true are proven winners and meant for success as is. If you change things they are no longer Tried and True so how the hell would we know.

[2timezDRUNK]

Ten 4 acfixer. My mash barrel is a 50 gallon drum. So I was just trying to ask around, thanks for the input.

[Yummyrum]

I’m having trouble converting the 6 gallon wash to a 50 gallon wash. I’m coming up with something like 800 grams?? That’s like 2# of yeast…. Also the yeast I choose is the 48hr fermfast; should I use all turbo or mix in some Red DADY?

I do a similar wash of around 47 gal . I use 2 x280g tins of bread yeast its perhaps a bit light on but still works fine . If I used 3 tins it would be pretty close to 800g of Bakers yeast in a 50gal wash .
So you are probably right in your calcs .
Three tins of Bread yeast costs me less than $15 AUD . …. Bugger all concidering how much Alcohol I’ll get out of it .

7B904E85-98E6-4D87-B842-EE0C9F7F5EAA.jpeg (43.11 KiB) Viewed 5810 times

Don’t even think about using Turbo yeast . My god , you will destroy the very reason for doing Winoes in the first place .

[2timezDRUNK]

Preciate that yum, my buddy gave the hobby up so I have some leftover packages.. I prefer red DADY, saving up my $$$ to try and get the certificate. So I’m penny pinching.

[CuWhistle]

Can MAP (mono) be substituted for DAP (di)? I believe it is used mainly for nitrogen so having half the phosphate shouldn't matter.

[SnuffyG]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

[Yummyrum]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

Can you rephrase the question Snuffy ?
Are you asking us to scale the proportions of all the ingredients to make up a one gallon wash?
Are we talking US or Imperial Gallons?

[Salt Must Flow]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

The recipe says, "This is for a 6 gallon wash". Ok ... so divide everything by 6. Does that make sense?

As for DADY yeast, pitch as per typical recommendation for your yeast. I'd recommend trying baker's yeast. Fleischmann's yeast works great, it's cheap and readily available at Sam's Club for instance. This recipe uses a significant amount of boiled yeast so I'd rather boil cheap yeast rather than expensive yeast.

[SnuffyG]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

Can you rephrase the question Snuffy ?
Are you asking us to scale the proportions of all the ingredients to make up a one gallon wash?
Are we talking US or Imperial Gallons?

All I have is an air still which can run around 1 gallon, and all I have are one gallon jugs to ferment in. I'll figure something out. United States of America customary units.

[SnuffyG]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

The recipe says, "This is for a 6 gallon wash". Ok ... so divide everything by 6. Does that make sense?

As for DADY yeast, pitch as per typical recommendation for your yeast. I'd recommend trying baker's yeast. Fleischmann's yeast works great, it's cheap and readily available at Sam's Club for instance. This recipe uses a significant amount of boiled yeast so I'd rather boil cheap yeast rather than expensive yeast.

It was a stupid question, I have an air still that only holds a gallon, plus I have gallon containers. Trying to figure out one sixth of a teaspoon is bad enough but that 1/6 of a "pinch" of epsom salt is about near impossible! I'm only looking at the original post, and I don't see anything about boiling the yeast.

[Salt Must Flow]

How does this equate for a one gallon wash? Using DADY?

The recipe says, "This is for a 6 gallon wash". Ok ... so divide everything by 6. Does that make sense?

As for DADY yeast, pitch as per typical recommendation for your yeast. I'd recommend trying baker's yeast. Fleischmann's yeast works great, it's cheap and readily available at Sam's Club for instance. This recipe uses a significant amount of boiled yeast so I'd rather boil cheap yeast rather than expensive yeast.

It was a stupid question, I have an air still that only holds a gallon, plus I have gallon containers. Trying to figure out one sixth of a teaspoon is bad enough but that 1/6 of a "pinch" of epsom salt is about near impossible! I'm only looking at the original post, and I don't see anything about boiling the yeast.

I would weigh the the recommended portions in grams and divide the weight by 6 for 1 gal batches. It's been a long time since I reviewed this thread. I may have adopted the addition of boiled yeast from another recipe and added it to this one. I follow this recipe, but incorporated 1/4 cup boiled yeast per 6 gal.

[Trapped-in-Oz]

All I have is an air still

...all I have is an Air Still – and I can only converse in grams and litres. Spoons, cups, gallons and pounds are acrimonious French to me.

In 9 litre ferments I use one finger pinch of Epsom and have a decisive preference for lots of tomato paste in sugar washes.

..

[SnuffyG]

All I have is an air still

...all I have is an Air Still – and I can only converse in grams and litres. Spoons, cups, gallons and pounds are acrimonious French to me.

In 9 litre ferments I use one finger pinch of Epsom and have a decisive preference for lots of tomato paste in sugar washes.

..

Ouch. Peace dude. My DNA indicates >98% European if that helps any....

[SnuffyG]

I have acquired an "Ale Pail" bucket!! Today I started a 5 gallon wash with 8 pounds of sugar( Walmart sugar bags come in 4 lb ), 2 tablespoons Fermax, 1/4 cup DADY pitched @ 87°F, little over a teaspoon of citric acid, I used pH paper to get it to around 5ish, and a cup of oyster shells. SG was around 1.070 the best I could tell, leaving hydrometer in the bucket. Using a seedling heat mat wrapped around the bucket with an Inkbird set @ 80°F and the bucket wrapped in a blanket. Now it's wait and see.

[schoolmonkey]

I was just about to give this a try, but I was reading where people were using oyster shells for ph management.
Now I can't find any, and I'm not buying a dozen fresh ones from Woolies seeing I can't stand them.

What else can I use if the ph crashes.

Thanks

[NormandieStill]

Calcium carbonate in powder form will work, or you can probably get bags of oyster grit for chicken keeping which is a little less finely crushed and not quite so expensive.

[Salt Must Flow]

What else can I use if the ph crashes.

Thanks

It's not used IF the ph crashes, the ph of sugar washes will crash. It is used to keep it from crashing. I add Citric Acid until the wash reads pH of 5.2 - 5.6 then I suspend a large mesh bag of Crushed Oyster Shells. It will maintain the ph to around 4 all the way until it is fully fermented. There's a lot of ways to hang a bag of crushed oyster shells. I tie the mesh bag closed using cotton string then tie the bag to an empty mason jar which floats and keeps it suspended. After fermentation is complete, I remove the bag, thoroughly rise it, hang it to dry and it can be reused.

[schoolmonkey]

That's the problem, I can't find any crushed Oyster shells, and the only one I did find was $150AUD for 2Kg's.
I tried buying 2 large oysters from the supermarket, but they will only sell them as a dozen and no one I know eats them.

I can get a bag of Calcium carbonate for $5.
https://beerco.com.au/products/calcium-carbonate

[Saltbush Bill]

I can't find any crushed Oyster shells, and the only one I did find was $150AUD for 2Kg's.

Go to a rural supply store......or maybe even a pet shop, ask for shell grit. People feed it to chickens/ chooks / fowls so that the eggs have healthy hard shells. Its a couple of bucks for a KG or two.
Egg shells will do the same job if all else fails.

[NZChris]

Use the Google Search function. There are heaps of threads on this subject. Easy, fiddly, difficult, cheap, expensive and everything in between methods and proponents for all of them. A block of marble will do for buffering, but won't get you out of trouble if you've already let it crash.