Rogers Tequila recipe

[OzKev]

Has anyone tried making a straight Tomato Paste Wash (or other neutral mix) and adding some agave to the final product. I assume it would need a lot less agave syrup to get the flavor.

[W Pappy]

Not that I have seen but that is getting further away from making real Tequila than I most of us want to get at least than I do.

[chocdoc]

Anyone get the SG below 1.000 with this ferment? Just wondering if the agave itself has unfermentable sugars?

[davebo]

My last ferment with this went to about .9 hard to get accurate readings below 1.00.
Just started my third wash with 44 ounces of organic agave, in 6.5 gallons of water, tested the SG with that alone and got an reading of 1.032 then added 10 LBS of sugar got my SG to 1.065 then boiled the whole wash for about 30 minutes my SG went to 1.085.
using my wort chiller got the wash cooled and pitched my yeast redstar bread yeast.

my last batch was so goot with this recipe Im not gonna mess with it for a while just keep it simple and sweet.

[Rod]

just finished this batch

airing the 40% product now to determine if i want to carbon filter as suggested in the post as there is little bite

will do a taste comparison between the following after airing the product

neutral spirit as a control

tequila made with essencia spirit flavour ( does not smell at all like Padron ) , more like perfume

my batch which took 3 months to ferment ( used EC1118 ) after a couple of stalls

and a miniature of padron

[Rod]

very happy

[davebo]

Rod, Ive made this 3 times now and each and every time im so happy with it that I barely want to try a different mash.

[Rod]

my batch which took 3 months to ferment ( used EC1118 ) after a couple of stalls

my only problem

maybe I would need to make during summer where the temperature would be higher , high twenties

[Pyewacket]

Sounds like an interesting recipe. Going to smoke the agave syrup with some mesquite wood as was suggested:

35oz agave per fermentor
5gallons of water
8lbs of sugar
tomato paste
bakers yeast

Gonna run 4 fermentors -- Strip run two of them and add the low wines with the remaining wash for the spirit run. Will run my LM still detuned and pull off at around 74ABV through the entire run; will run it lower ABV if it improves the flavor.

[davebo]

have you made this yet Pyewacket?

[620rossco]

Great to see everyone making progress,
Double shot of Rogers, a shot of orange vodka, some lemon and lime, mmmm
Bring on summer.

Going to smoke the agave syrup with some mesquite wood

It won't carry over at a ABV that is not really bighty.
Mexicans use steam ovens to cook their agave anyway ergo no flame.

Been limiting the amount of backset because the bloom becomes overwhelming.

Rossco

[Pyewacket]

have you made this yet Pyewacket?

Fermenting now...airlock is going nuts. Should be able to run it in a week.

It won't carry over at a ABV that is not really bighty.
Mexicans use steam ovens to cook their agave anyway ergo no flame.

Been reading about old methods of Mezcal production. Many claim that the old brick kilns (fired by wood) impart earth and woody flavors through distillation; as opposed to tequila. But I agree, I don't expect much flavor to come across--if any. Still wanted to give it a try.

[skow69]

How have I never seen this thread before? Gotta get me some agave syrup. I know some ladies who looove tequilla.

The OP was keeping everything out of the still down to cutoff at 40% ABV. No heads cut. Everybody seamed to love it. Is that how you guys are collecting?

[620rossco]

The OP was keeping everything out of the still down to cutoff at 40% ABV. No heads cut. Everybody seamed to love it. Is that how you guys are collecting?

Heads cut will be really difficult because of the nature of the agave, there is no obvious heads hearts delineation.
But you definitely need to remove them. They are really sharp so allow a wide heads cut, mine is 1.5-2litres (70litre wash) and the hearts will smell really headsy till they air out.
I just run them through the bubbler between 94-89% using 4-5 plates, bearing in mind the heads and tails compression with this type of still.

Hope this helps,
Rossco

[skow69]

Thanks, but it's kinda hard to tell without knowing something about your hearts cut.

[620rossco]

Sorry Skow as you know, using the reflux condenser on a plate still the operator can hold the ABV fairly constant across the entire run, so results will vary compared to a pot or detuned bok/vm.
For a single run, with a 75litre charge cuts are 2x 700ml + 1x400 heads cut (92%), approx 11x 700ml hearts (92-89%), small amount of tails, i turn it off, maybe 2x600ml (88-80%).
The whole run will smell like heads because of the agave, and picking a transition from heads to hearts will be difficult. Be conservative.
These are typical ec1118 volumes, individual runs will vary and total output will be anywhere between 14-19litres @ 42%.

Agave washes are really harsh compared to a rum or whiskey.
Rossco

[thatguy1313]

Wonder if this recipe would benefit from a yeast bomb similar to pugis in his rum thread? Seems like one of the problems people have is a very long/slow ferment, when i did pugi rum my sg was 1.07 and it fermented dry in just over 36 hours. Never had a wash ferment that quickly. Since this recipe is technically a rum I thought the same principles may apply here?

[skow69]

Thanks rossco. I am intrigued. I've never had a run of all heads. I've never tasted agave, either. I haven't decided whether to run it through the pot/thumper or the VM. It sounds like the heads cut is pretty arbitrary. I will remember your advice and make it wide. Do you recycle the heads, or have you tried a feints run?

[620rossco]

Since this recipe is technically a rum

Dissagreed with this from the first time I read it.
The source of the flavour is inulin. Behaves and tastes nothing like rum.
I think ferment time is due to the harshness of this type of sugar and the temperature combined with 1118 which is slow anyway,

or have you tried a feints run

You can intensify the flavour if you use some backset. Careful not to use too much it really intensifies the bloom.
Anyway I just throw it in the heads jar and strip the flavour to make vodka, 6 plates and a backed section.
I was recycling the heads and I never felt like they built up, but the build up side of that argument convinced me.

I haven't decided whether to run it through the pot/thumper or the VM

I was going to tell you I think you should detune your VM. Roger uses and pot and thumper,

[skow69]

Gotcha. This must be some powerful stuff. I'll find out this weekend.

[Nice collection of rigs in your sig, BTW.]

[skow69]

Not sure I want to use Roger for a role model. He seemed to be perfectly happy doing a hot fast stripping run and drinking the low wines.

[620rossco]

Not sure I want to use Roger for a role model

Fairly sure you don't need a role model.

[skow69]

This agave necter is some musky tasting stuff, all right. I can imagine it giving a headsy taint to just about anything. The wash tastes pretty good, though.

The ferment is pretty passive so far. It's still day one. I used the standard recipe: 8 lbs sugar and a bottle of syrup in 5 gallons, plus a little tom paste, some crushed up Total, pinch of Epsome salts and Fermax. Dady yeast. SG 1.070. Thought I had it covered. Hey thatguy, did you try a yeast bomb? How'd it work?

So, inulin, huh? That's why I love this hobby, there's always something new to learn. I don't know organic chemistry from sicum, so I ask Wikipedia, cuz they know everything and they're always right, right? Couple things caught my eye.

Inulin is used by some plants as a means of storing energy.... Most plants that synthesize and store inulin do not store other forms of carbohydrate such as starch.... Indigestible polysaccharide.... resistance to enzymes.

I guess that explains why we don't try to mash it.

Inulin is postulated to benefit the immune system.... Enhances...selected beneficial bacteria.... Inhibits...certain pathogenic bacteria.... Decrease...cholesterol and triglycerides... Benefits lipidemia and cardiovascular system.

Hell, it's almost a vitamin.

Inulin is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Whew! That's a relief.

About 30–40% of people in Central Europe suffer from fructose malabsorption.[37] Since inulin is a fructan, excess dietary intake may lead to minor side effects, such as increased flatulence and loose stools....

Damn it! I told you not to send that tequila to Ukraine. Now look what you did.

Nonhydrolyzed inulin can also be directly converted to ethanol in a simultaneous saccharification and fermentation process, which may have great potential for converting crops high in inulin into ethanol for fuel

WHAT?.......WHAT? Where's a chemist when you need one?

For a single run, with a 75litre charge cuts are 2x 700ml + 1x400 heads cut (92%), approx 11x 700ml hearts (92-89%), small amount of tails, i turn it off, maybe 2x600ml (88-80%).
The whole run will smell like heads because of the agave, and picking a transition from heads to hearts will be difficult. Be conservative.

Rossco, I'm thinking I'll try to emulate your cuts for the first go round, scaled down to size. My column is an offset VM/LM with an extra valve for full range reflux control, so I should be able to dial in the ABV, I think. It won't get the same flavor profile as your bubbler, of course, but this is actually the first time I've found a use for that extra valve, so that's pretty cool. And I gotta start somewhere with a run that all smells like heads.

I'm hyped!

Skol,
skow

[skow69]

The ferment seems to be picking up momentum here on day three. Weird stuff.

[620rossco]

I'm thinking I'll try to emulate your cuts for the first go round, scaled down to size. My column is an offset VM/LM with an extra valve for full range reflux control, so I should be able to dial in the ABV, I think. It won't get the same flavor profile as your bubbler, of course, but this is actually the first time I've found a use for that extra valve, so that's pretty cool.

Offset? interesting, post a link if you have done a write up about it.
Mine is a 3" Manu creation. Worth every cent I paid him to make it.
My understanding is that the bubbler is basically just a big pot still...

Been busy making some pilsners from grains. Middle of winter is the only time it gets cold enough here for lager yeasts to work properly.
Let me know how it turns out.

Rossco

[skow69]

OK. Agave has lost its mystique for me. I am over it.

Ran it last night. Just sampled the jars. Must be too quick. It's only aired for a day. I'm drinkin whiskey and smoking a big oily cigar trying to get that taste out of my mouth. None of that is suitable for drinking at this time. I recall some talk about it smoothing out a lot in the first days. I didn't make any cuts, just covered the jars back up. The heads bite is real strong in the first 3 jars, 4 is cleaner, 5 is sweeter, 6 is too sweet, I was afraid to try 7, 8, and 9. I ran it too fast, too I think. It woulds benefit from more reflux. We'll find out next week.

Here is my still. It's pretty plane Jane compared to Manu's creations. Have you got a link to yours, or a picture?

I'll post again when I work up the nerve to try those samples again.

[Pyewacket]

Going to say, I am in the same boat as you Skow. I ran a detunned reflux as well, and I could not pull out much more than the typical sugarcane wash flavor. That is a flavor I try to avoid when running neutrals...so it was off-putting for me-- and undrinkable as it stands now. Mesquite flavor came over close to the tails...but did nothing to improve the overall flavor. Could certainly be the way I ran my still...not sure. Good luck to those that are going to try it...

[Due51]

I ran my wash through a de-tuned reflux and didn't get a sugar wash flavor. I did a stripping run, used 1.25 gallons of backset for the next ferment along with a quart of tails. Two strips total followed by a spirit run and it came out very palatable. Everyone seemed to like it. I followed the original recipe from this thread.

[KaFaraqGatri]

I've been really enjoying success using some bulk agave extract that I get on eBay for less than $2/pound. I typically use 12 pounds, "100% de agave azul organico". It takes FOREVER to ferment, but I'm getting 3 liters of 90 proof tequila from 5 gallons of the above referenced wash, and it is indistinguishable from Milagro. Forget Heradura, I think Milagro is the best tequila, bar none, and it goes for up to $50/liter, so I'm quite happy with the results. I'm old insipid Pasteur Champagne yeast, though I'm trying American whiskey yeast mixed with it in the current batch. Usually takes 5 weeks to ferment to completion at 75 degrees F.

I've tried the sugar + agave for flavoring method, but it didn't taste like Milagro, more like Mescal. That stands to reason, and is nice to have as a fall-back. I mainly experimented with this because I don't want to be buying pricey Milagro and now I don't have to. There's only one drawback. I don't have tequila for margaritas anymore. Well, I do, but I'm not using it for that! The lime and such totally overwhelms the taste and it is soooooo tasty. Very fine sipping tequila. Like Milagro it has a kind of floral nose to it that I have never experienced with other tequilas. So, it's pretty authentic, as far as the rules go. And this used to be Mexico!

I charcoal filter it immediately, then use it. I've tried the ones aged in an oak barrel and, frankly, I don't like the taste as well as the "silver" or joven tequilas. I also like a snappy turn-around and 6 months in a barrel cramps my style. BTW, some of the sites that review the agave extract complain that it has been stripped of the pectin. Bring it on, I say! May be a prob as a sweetener, but it's a delight for distillation. Bottom line, most of the methanol produced (the "heads") results from what started as pectin in the wash. That's why grain based alcohols have enough you have to deal with it. Ditto fruit based. With this method very little methanol is produced.

Of course, the big factor in all this is cheap agave extract.

[Alchemist]

I've been wondering (like so many) about Tequila for some time now. I've of course read this thread. A couple things struck me.

Why is most everyone saying Agave syrup/nectar would not make 'real' tequila
Why has no one (that I saw) used 100% Agave in their wash (meaning no other sugars). Ok, and what the h*ll is up with tomato paste going in?

From all research I can find, the process to that tequila makers use to get a wash from the Agave piña is exactly the same procedure that those that make syrup/nectar use. Can anyone show me a difference? Both 'cook' the piña for enzymatic conversion. Both crush and press it. Both filter it. I'll grant nectar makers remove water, but that's it. And from what I've found, raw nectar makers do it under vacuum so it's not even heat treated.

That said, and with those questions in place I have made up a batch. 1 gallon raw agave nectar diluted to 5 gallons. OG 1.065. I tossed it onto a fresh yeast bed from a batch of all grain peated whiskey. I'll tell you, there was NOTHING slow about the fermentation. I think the slow fermentations I've read about are all about a lack of nutrient management.

It was down to 1.025 in the first week. I added 1 T yeast nutrient and 1.005 a 5 days later. It held there about 3 days. I added 1 t alpha amylase and reach 0.995 two days later. Nothing slow or sluggish there.

The stripping run was the most well behaved runs I've run to date. I collected everything over 78 C all the way to 98 C (down to 10% coming off) for 6.4 L at about 30%. Very clear (raw/sharp) tequila taste. I of course tossed the first 100 ml of the foreshots (60-75 C), reserved 400 ml heads for later runs and collected about 700 mls @ 60%, going pretty deep into the tails (nice smoke there, but no wet cardboard). Down to 30% coming off. Very smooth and nice. I'll be adding a piece of untoasted white oak and letting it set until it's deemed 'right'.

I'm more convinced now that blue agave nectar is a full valid way to go.