uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[bourbonbob]

I done a UJSM today, done exactly what you done J R, it's bubbling it's head off now. The next one will be 3rd gen, can't wait for that one.

[dutch@home]

i rinse the replacement corn under the hot tap (ca:60 celcius) .
to remove graindust etc.
i'm starting the 12e !! generation tonight.
its not so fast anymore, it takes up to 15-20 days.
this is what i do:

5 liter backset
3.5 kilo sugar
top up to 20 liter
starttemp 21 grd
remove and ad 1/3 corn every 3e time.
this gives me ca 4.5 - 5 liter low wines.

[Rocky_Creek]

You might want to add some calcium carbonate to correct the PH after that many runs.

[dutch@home]

PH stays at +- 4-5.
yesterday i only added some nutrient salts i had left over.
about 2 teaspoons.and 1/3 corn refreshed.
mixed up yesterday morning before work and when i came
home it was happily bubling.....

[grainhopper]

I have to say thanks again Jesse and everyone. I have made this sour mash better than anything I have bought. My 40 abv UJSM is smoother than Coke. After I oaked it, I left coffee filter on the top of my containers and would swirl every now and again, for about 4 days taking the oak.

I was filtering the batch again to get char particle that didnt come out the 1st time and decided to taste it, man was I surprised, it was smooth as silk.

[Cletus]

Is it recomended to wash the cracked corn before adding to mash on initial startup, or just scoop it directly from the bag?

Thanks - Cletus

[Husker]

I boiled mine a few minutes. I wanted to be a little cautious here, since it is supposed to run for MANY generations. I do everything I can to maintain sanitary environment.

When I do my next generations, I put a pound of so of corn, and a few pounds of sugar into a 4L glass jug. I then dump in 3L of BOILING backset (direct out of the still). I shake this up, the sugar dissolves, and then it stays very hot for a while. This is what I have done to "sterile" the additional corn on each gen.

Now, the recipe does not call for this, and it probably works fine without doing this. However, this is just the technique I have used, and it does work great.

H.

[Cletus]

Thanks Husker - I probably should have... I started my 1st batch yesterday & it seems I am not getting too much activity in the fermenter. It may be becuase it's not exactly warm in the garage @ 50 to 60f.
Oh well, if it does not fly at least it's cheap to do over.

-- Cletus

[Husker]

50-60 F is cold. You might have to bring the temp up on the mash, or it will simply slowly ferment (over a 3 week to a month period of time).

Usually on your FIRST run (which builds up the yeast colony), you want that to happen quicker, so that the yeast have a chance to "super dominate" anything else that might be alive in there. Once the yeast colony is huge, it is pretty safe, and can easily overwhelm just about anything and keep the infections away.

H.

[Cletus]

OK, I picked up a "brew belt" at the local home brew shop. It's a heat belt that wraps around the fermenter. Also have made a cardboard enclosure to insulate it as well - I have (sanitized) electronic thermometer poked into a small hole in the top of the fermenter - the kind that has the long flexible lead. Work pretty nice - I have the readout head of the thermometer outside of the enclosure & it is maintaining 70 ~75F.
I may add a heat lamp as well, but am a little worried about leaving it unattended & the possibility of a fire.

- Cletus

[Husker]

If you can keep it closer to 75, then all will work out fine. Make sure your bucket is off the ground, on something that insulates. If it is on the concrete floor of the garage, that will suck out a lot of heat. However, the bet and an insulation box is certainly the right way to go when it is way too cold. Having good internal temp readings will tell you if things are too cold, or start getting too hot.

H.

[wineo]

I have a brewbelt on 1 of my sugarwashes now.It keeps it around 75f.
I have been thinking about building a heavily insulated box that will hold 4 fermenters,or carboys.I bet the brewbelt would heat the whole thing.I go through the same thing every winter.Cold fermenters.

[punkin]

a elec blanket on low works nicely.

Been using an electric blanket for 15 years for my kit beers. Just can't afford to run enough of em to wrap up all my different fermenters now. So an insulated fermenting room it is for me in the new shed.
3 door nonfunctional glass door drink fridge should hold heaps of em. Some kind of heat controller and thats it.

[stillsmokin]

I had a room mate who drove a truck delivering plastics, he entertained himself counting how many Igloo coolers he would see on the highway each day (of course he grabbed a few). I think I might attempt a ferment in the big one. The insulation is not great, but with an added insul-wrap of some kind it might work for cooler temps. I'm s'posin' most coolers might do as well.

I really like the insulated shed idea though, just might have the space.

[Cletus]

OK - it appears the the fermentation has stopped, been 5 days. Going to do a beer stripping run this weekend on the initial UJSM wash. Looking forward to the sour mash fermentaion!

[punkin]

Got two ujsm's running as i try to fill my new barrell. They've both slowed down one i ran today after 10 days fermenting and the others slower still.
Did a PH of the first one today, it was lower than the ph3 that my papers would read. Skipped backset and used water only, it's lifted the ph to 3.5
Dunno whether to skip the next one as well, or add backset then skip the one after?

Any thoughts?

[ER70S-2]

My first USJM has finished fermentingafter 7 days, but I don't think I'm goin go be able to run it until between Christmas and New years. Is it a problem to just leave it in the fermentor until I get back?

[punkin]

Got two ujsm's running as i try to fill my new barrell. They've both slowed down one i ran today after 10 days fermenting and the others slower still.
Did a PH of the first one today, it was lower than the ph3 that my papers would read. Skipped backset and used water only, it's lifted the ph to 3.5
Dunno whether to skip the next one as well, or add backset then skip the one after?

Any thoughts?

Ferment is still slow, stripped today, the bloody thing had no taste without the backset, used new corn and added some of the tasteless backset and some of the old yeastladen corn. Hopefully can get the ph back up that way.

Gotta do some research as to what i can use to raise the ph, don't like chucking the corn just whjen it's tasting good, and i'm not waiting 14 days for something i know will ferment in 6 when it's happy.

[Aidas]

My first USJM has finished fermentingafter 7 days, but I don't think I'm goin go be able to run it until between Christmas and New years. Is it a problem to just leave it in the fermentor until I get back?

If it's under an airlock, you're fine.

Aidas

[bourbonbob]

My first USJM has finished fermentingafter 7 days, but I don't think I'm goin go be able to run it until between Christmas and New years. Is it a problem to just leave it in the fermentor until I get back?

I've got 100 litres of UJSM and 50 litres of rum that has been sitting under airlock for a month, I haven't been home to do it, with a bit of luck I should get home this week to run it.

[Jameson Beam]

Punkin wrote:
Got two ujsm's running as i try to fill my new barrell. They've both slowed down one i ran today after 10 days fermenting and the others slower still.
Did a PH of the first one today, it was lower than the ph3 that my papers would read. Skipped backset and used water only, it's lifted the ph to 3.5
Dunno whether to skip the next one as well, or add backset then skip the one after?

Any thoughts?

Welp Punkin,

Buffering pH in a mash can be done by adding some good ol' Baking Soda - Sodium Bicarbonate. To quote Harry from Advanced Distillers:

"As a buffer, Baking Soda tends to cause acid solutions to become
more alkali and to cause alkali solutions to become more acid, bringing
both solutions to a stable pH around 8.1 (slightly basic) on the
pH scale. A buffer also RESISTS pH CHANGE in a solution.."

Not knowing how much mash your makin, try experimenting by taking a quart or so and adding the baking soda a bit at a time till the pH gets around 4.5 to 5.0 or so - that should be good to go.
Good Luck.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

[punkin]

Thanks Jameson, and welcome. Nice to know your first post was to help me

Soon as i get a chance i'm gunna look into it and do some more reading, just not happy with how things are going.

Thanks again for a good experiment to start.

[Husker]

the acidity in UJSM can get out of hand over many generations. It is good to know that you can buffer it back into the high 4's and keep it going without damaging the wash.

H.

[Uncle Jesse]

I never had problems with pH. I might have just gotten lucky, can't really claim otherwise. Never had a stuck fermentation as far as I can recall, at least not with the UJSM recipe. Had a tough time fermenting agave the first time I tried it for some reason but it worked out OK.

[Husker]

I never had problems with pH. I might have just gotten lucky, can't really claim otherwise. Never had a stuck fermentation as far as I can recall, at least not with the UJSM recipe. Had a tough time fermenting agave the first time I tried it for some reason but it worked out OK.

I have never had a UJSM "stick", but I have had them slow down. First couple times I did it, I used too much backset (50-60%, over time). I like the way the flavor gets with more backset, but the PH does get very low.

I have found it better to do 50% for about the first 2 new generations, then switch down to about 33% or so, from that point on. That seems to keep the yeasties happier. The Distillers with AG seems to handle the lower PH better than EC1118. Also, the only times I had things slow down (before I got tired of keeping it going), I was using EC, so it is possible that strain of yeast is more sensitive to lower than 3 PH.

H.

[punkin]

Well a bit of reading helps, although a lot of the chemistry stuff is above me.

Found reference on the main site to pottasium carbonate, seems to be safe to use (http://www.codexalimentarius.net/gsfaon ... tml?id=262" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow), although i'd have to put more research into getting it than the sodium bicarb.

Dunno if it'd work any better, though.

Will keep reading, the Wiki's a help...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[stoker]

the sodium and the potassium salts are very simular in behavior, and both fine for consumption.
they will raise the ph (to a certain level)

but using it as buffer is useless for us, a buffer of ph 8 is bad for yeast.

[Jameson Beam]

Hey all,

(And BTW, thank you punkin).

While not being a total newbie to the UJSM method, since ive been doing sour mash for about 6 months now, along with some other stuff (got tired of just makin wine all these years:):).

I have followed his recomendations, with a few alterations - ie. using Corn Flakes (for added nutrients) with corn meal to replace the cracked corn, along with adding yeast nutrients and about 10 - 15 % brown sugar for additional nutrients and solids (containing sugar, molassas - not the fake stuff with caramel coloring).

After experimenting with the amount of sour mash to add back, I've found that adding enough for a pH of around 5.0 - 5.5 makes them yeasties quite happy (I use Lalvin EC-1118). This usually equates to about 25% to 35% of the total mash (25% being the minimum by law while some whiskey makers - ie. Jack Daniels, add up to 40% of their sour mash to the sweet mash). One can also expect almost a 1.0 decrease in pH during fermentation as well.

Yeast can survive between pH levels of 2.0 to almost 8.0, but do not function very well at all at the higher and lower ends. Most of the whiskey makers around here (Tennessee and Kentucky) like to shoot for a pH of from 5.0 to 5.8 from what i've heard and read.

Also, if the mash does get too acidic, it is safe to add baking soda, a bit at a time till the pH gets back up to acceptable levels without turning it into a buffer.

Dr. Raines-Casselman, Ph.D., wrote an interesting dissertation on Yeast and pH levels - heres a few excerpts:

Yeast Tolerance to Acidity

"Yeast exhibits a considerable tolerance to extremes of pH, being
able to maintain an active fermentation in a 5% glucose solution
in the pH range of 2.4 to 7.4, but ceasing activity at pH 2.0
or pH 8.0. For optimum results, good practice dictates that the
pH of the fermenting medium be maintained within the range of
about 4.0 to 6. A drop of more than 50% in fermentative activity
has been observed at pH 3.5. More gradual declines in yeast
activity were encountered at higher pH levels, with measurable
effects showing up at pH values over 6.0.

The explanation for the yeast's ability to maintain a relatively
constant activity over a 100-fold change in hydrogen ion
concentration (pH 4 to 6) is found in the fact that the pH of
the cell interior of the yeast remains quite constant at about
pH 5.8, regardless of any relatively wide pH variations in the
fermenting medium. The enzymes involved in fermentation thus
operate in an optimum pH environment within the yeast cell that
is largely unaffected by external changes in pH.

The last factor to affect yeast growth is pH (a measure of acidity).
Yeast grow well at acidic pHs. They grow best between pH 4 to pH 6.
Normal wort is acidic with a pH near 5.2. During growth and
fermentation the pH drops to about 4.1-4.2 and in some cases
even lower.

The further acidification of the wort helps to prevent bacterial
infection. (Most bacteria cannot tolerate acid pH). "
-MB Raines-Casselman, Ph.D.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents worth on the matter - take it or leave it.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.

[MisterSteve124]

Wow my UJSM second generation finished fermenting fasted than my first! I used 25% backseat and this time I put it in a closet with a heater keeping the temperature at 75 degrees farenheit. It was bubbling like crazy the second day and now on the third day it is done.

[Jameson Beam]

Wow my UJSM second generation finished fermenting fasted than my first! I used 25% backseat and this time I put it in a closet with a heater keeping the temperature at 75 degrees farenheit. It was bubbling like crazy the second day and now on the third day it is done.

Just be careful,

Keep checking on the internal temperature of the fermentation and check the ending SG of that stuff - 3 days seems kinda quick, unless you used a turbo yeast...

In a quick ferment, depending on the volume - it can reach 20 to 25 or more degrees F higher then the outside temp and end up killing off them yeasties... Yeast ferments fine between an external temp of 58 to 70 degrees F.

Vino es Veritas,
Jim.