Smells methoey

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:57 pm

I'm getting a slight metho smell and tang in my vodka, I make a white sugar wash 10kg 30L using 48hr turbo yeast (this takes about 2 weeks) my sitll has a 1200mm x 50mm stack packed with s/s scourers and produces at 96% (i'm so proud) I chuck out the first 50ml take about 500mls heads then collect the middle run, i dont collect anything over 80degC for my drinking middle run, i collect a small amount of tails to chuck in with the next batch. Even after filtering (a shit load) i still have this smell, the only thing i havent tried is changing to copper scourers as i have heard that hight % booze can make the copper give off copper sulphate??? is this true? Will it make a difference??? any help would be greatly appreciated.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:54 pm

Buddah wrote:I'm getting a slight metho smell and tang in my vodka, I make a white sugar wash 10kg 30L using 48hr turbo yeast (this takes about 2 weeks) my sitll has a 1200mm x 50mm stack packed with s/s scourers and produces at 96% (i'm so proud) I chuck out the first 50ml take about 500mls heads then collect the middle run, i dont collect anything over 80degC for my drinking middle run, i collect a small amount of tails to chuck in with the next batch. Even after filtering (a shit load) i still have this smell, the only thing i havent tried is changing to copper scourers as i have heard that hight % booze can make the copper give off copper sulphate??? is this true? Will it make a difference??? any help would be greatly appreciated.

From my understanding.....copper will help eliminate sulfur smells and tastes. use as much copper as possible.

hayruss · Post by **hayruss** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:32 am

I have the same problem as Buddah.
I use 10Kg white sugar pre-disolved and Temp tolerant yeast in a 40lt fermenter take less than a week. Produces 10 - 15% alc.
The still is a 15ltr stainless tea urn with a 1.2m X 50mm copper pipe column and 20 stainless scubbers. This also produces 96% :

.
I toss the 1st 100 ml then collect all until the temp creeps past 82 deg C collect nearly 5 ltr in total 96%. I dilute 50:50 then filter.
Regardless wheter I filter it using the Z filter or not filter it at all it still has the Tang and Metho'y smell.

Some advice also would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Hayruss

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:09 am

I use structured copper packing in my column and have only been pulling the middle run off at 88-90%. After carbon filtering the spirit has no smell or taste whatsoever. Even before filtering the product is very palitable.

I have found you get a better product if you have a very clean and clear wash. Also don't over sugar your wash. Try to leave it ferment long enough to eat up all of the sugar. I generally leave my washes ferment and clear for at least 14 days and siphon them off several times to get rid of any sediment. I find the end result is much better with a nice clear wash than a cloudy one.

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:20 pm

I have let my wash settle for about a month now and changed all my scourers to copper ones and am running a batch through now and there is a hell of a difference in smell, i cant detect any!!! I'll let you all know how it tastes, also my old batches have been sitting on carbon for a few weeks now then slowly filtered (1 drip every 2 sec) i have added a little glucose and it has turned out very drinkable (probably due to aging).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:21 am

Yep, one day people will realise that what has been learnt before can't be beat. Copper is the way to go.

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:30 am

Anonymous wrote:Yep, one day people will realise that what has been learnt before can't be beat. Copper is the way to go.

Without getting into a pissing contest, I'd like to first say that you're right--what works, works. That said, half the fun of doing it yourself is trying new things--okay, maybe somebody did years ago, and it sucked, so they didn't do it again, and they didn't tell anybody about it--shhh!. Here, we can try wierd things, tell what happens, and (hopefully) not be laughed at.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:17 am

Nothing wrong with trying new things. Even though the mouse trap catches mice, with a little imagination a better one can be built. Trial and error, if man never tried anything new he'd still be a cave dweller.

Progress should not be feared it should be embraced.

...ok so much for my philisophical side

linw · Post by **linw** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:57 pm

Back to the topic! I produce 95%+, too, and also am having a problem getting rid of the 'metho' smell/taste. (1.1 m col with copper mesh). I find it goes way into the run far more than I expected. It is also not easily filtered. The tails smell is much more affected by carbon filtering.

For the first time I am going to try stripping first then running the main run. I will also be more selective in making the heads cut.

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 pm

Whats the best filtering you guys have found??? I've tried sitting on carbon, carbon trays, z filter, 2 z filters, sitting on carbon then running though two z filters.... the list goes on!!! my booze is still drinkable but I am still to get the "no smell or taste" stuff.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:15 pm

We use activated carbon. We have about a 2' length of ABS (filled with carbon) attatched to a small stainless steel sink. On the bottom of this column is a cap with a needle valve tapped into it. We dump our product in the sink, cover the sink with plastic and let it slowly drip. 8 to 10 litres takes close to a week to get through the filter. The result is a neutral spirit with absolutly no smell or taste. Better than any vodka you buy.
We run it through the filter at about 60-65% alc/vol and then do the final cut after the filtering.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm

UR, what do you mean by "do the final cut after filterring"

just askin.

Professor Duck · Post by **Professor Duck** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:41 pm

He means doing the final dilution down to 40% or whatever abv he wants it to be.

linw · Post by **linw** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:45 pm

Me back again after finishing the stripping run. I am convinced that this is the way to go as the heads smell is much more confined than before. The first 400ml will be recycled but after that the product is pretty flavour/smell less (apart from tails, of course).

I used to think that doing stripping runs would increase the still run time but now I have tried it I don't think so. Two stripping runs will take 6.5 hrs and the main run, 11 hrs. Total of about 17.5 hrs. My previous runs took at least 10 hrs so 17.5 hrs beats 20 hrs.

I am going to keep filtering with a Z filter just to do a final cleanup.

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:54 pm

What % did you water back your booze too before your double distill??

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:21 pm

Just enough to ensure that you do not expose your elements to dry air.
If you run off propane, I dont see to much of a reason to dillute it at all

linw · Post by **linw** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:42 pm

Yep, Jaeger says it for me. The easy way is to put enough water in to cover the elements (I erred on the safe side!) then chuck the etoh in.

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:28 pm

I thought a more than 20% wash would flood the stack, i have done a wash that was about 20% then added about 2.5L of 92% leftovers and i wasn't able to run the still at anything under 40ml a minute, as it seemed to be boiling off faster than it was making it back down into the boiler. this was causing a tempory liquid blocks and the build up of pressure shot the booze out (about 250ml in one go) it was then i decided to do my first stripping run. My still had at the the time a 50mm stack X 600mm high, 1800w element that runs flat out, temp control is done by a cooling coil in the top.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:02 am

Even distilling water will flood a column if your column is undersized for both the amount of reflux you are returning to the column and the amount of heat that is put into the boiler.

A 50 mm ( 2" ) column should be able to handle 1800 W. I'm assuming this is a relux column since you have 92% leftovers on hand. Are you getting this 92% from a column that is only 600 mm (23.5" ) inches tall?

I use 1800W of power flat out, and I can run under complete reflux.[/i]

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:54 am

Yeah I was getting 92% from a 600mm tall stack, I know they say it cant be done on other sites but it worked, since then i have revamped the still to have a stack of 1100mm and now can produce 96.2% on a double distill at a rate of 15ml a minute. With the old design i might have had the scourers packed a bit too tight.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:55 pm

Did you do a temp correction on that ABV reading

Buddah · Post by **Buddah** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:50 pm

Yep i had to put it in the fridge to get it down to 20C

Goody · Post by **Goody** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:14 pm

Gidday Buddah,
Ive been stilling for a couple of years now(but this is my first post). I have a Still Spirits reflux still that comes from N.Z.
My first batch I made was just as you described and I was really put off by what i produced. After a lot of research and reading I now have a procedure that is a winner and I have since always made a very good neutral spirit.
I wash all my gear with Miltons anti bacterial wash watered down to what they prescribe.
In my 30 lt fermenter I put 2lt of boiling water and then add 4 kg of white sugar and mix the bejesus out of it, then add another 2 lt of boiling water and add another 4 kg of white sugar and mix it until it is all dissolved.
Then I fill my fermenter up to the 25 lt line with cold tap water, stirring a few times. I wait until the mix has cooled to around 30 degree's.
I then add my yeast+nutrients ( any one, alcotech, still spirits, whatever is cheap). I give this a bit of a stir and then I seal it all up and let it go.
It will take 7-10 days for all activity to cease.
Then I add a turbo clear or other finings and leave it another day.
On stilling day I add all the clear wash into my still and try to leave the cloudy stuff out and away we go.
I get rid of the first 100ml and only capture 5 litres of the rest. I dont wait until 80 whatever degree's, once i get 5 lt I stop. Most times my yeild is 82-88 %.
Once Ive got my booze I clean up and let the spirit cool down and then I water it down to 50%. My spirit is now in a plastic food grade pale with a tight sealing lid and to this i add about 4 good handfuls of activated carbon, give it a good stir up and seal. I leave this for a good 2 weeks, giving it a good shake every time I remember to.
When its time I run my booze through a Z filter twice and water it down to 40% and bottle it. I get about 9 litres of spirit each batch.
My wife was a Bacardi and Vodka drinker, and is fussy as hell, now she drinks my neautral spirit with coke and loves it, I make some bourbon and scotch for myself, plus I home brew beer.
I think it is because i dont bother with the tails and am a bit anal with the head that I dont have any nasty smells and flavours in my booze, but other experts here will probably tell you different. Ive had others tell me not to store my booze on carbon in plastic pails, but Ive had no drama's. I have a glass demijohn but it only holds 5 litres and once youve cut your booze you need a bigger container.
Anyway Im glad I found this forum, its a good read and informative.
All the best all you bootleggers
Goody

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:07 pm

In all the experimenting over the years using a Still Spirits Super Reflux, I have never once had a run come out "clean" it has always had the aromatics (metho, etc) smell to it.

The closest I came was when I actually weighed out the dextrose, yeast, water, etc and even then I had to run it through charcoal to make it palatable.

I threw out the first 200ml, then collected it in 500ml batches ... each 500ml batch had the same problem. The wort was 100% clean (I let the fermenter settle at a 30 degree angle so all the nutrients settled over the tap, then opened the tap full speed and sucked all the nutrients out, the wort was like very pale urine, completely clear (I could see the bottom of the still) and even after distilling there was no cloudiness, just a very slightly darker appearance.

In the end I decided to design/build my own still from all the designs available on the net. On top of that build it entirely out of copper, and once completed the ultimate test is ensuring the spirit is clean, I am hoping it will be so clean it wont need filtering at all. Hell, even if I take it off at 10ml/min and keep it running 2 days with an abhorently stupid reflux ratio as long as it doesnt need carbon/filtering I am happy.

If it works, I plan on documenting the process from fermentation to bottling, as well as the still bill of materials and putting them out on the net for others to follow.

lawnman · Post by **lawnman** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:13 am

with you guys that experience methoy smells when you flavour your alchohl and age do you find that the smell goes as it ages?
thats what im finding out the longer i leave it to sit and age the smell tends to disapate.
also i add barrel chips and oak shaveings to help with the ageing process to over power the metho smell.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:48 am

Is it incorrect to say its a methanol smell? Sugar washes are said to produce very little methanol.... anyway, I think that this smell is associated with the yeast. A crystal clear wash is what worked best for me to eliminate this smell and of course stripping runs and spirit runs is essential technique. Triple distilling your vodka makes some really smooth vodka...

lawnman · Post by **lawnman** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:13 am

yeah thats what im going to do is strain my wash before i distill it ive always stird my wash before distilling but after reading this i think ill change my practice and see what happens.

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:34 pm

I have worked out now that one thing that makes a big difference is the column length (funnily enough). I finally finished my home made still (1300mm x 50mm column with a 2400W element) and the difference is so remarkable I will be cutting up my old still and converting it to a basic pot still to play with making my own rums and stuff.

As a test I ran through a wash made from Dextrose and the 48 Hour Turbo yeast (gold sachet), after precisely 48 hours (yeah I know, it was a test after all) I whacked it into the boiler (cloudy and all) and flicked the switch.

Bottom line is that it had a very slight (and I mean so very slight its almost unnoticable) aromatic, the difference is that with fresh full strength distilate, I can put into a snifter and put my nose deep into the glass and inhale, something I could never do with the old mass produced turbo stills, if you tried it before you couldnt even get within a couple of inches of the glass without the smell overpowering you.

mtnwalker2 · Post by **mtnwalker2** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:26 pm

Hello all,

Did all the above, and really helped. However, one trick I found that helped as much as any, was after the stripping run, toss in a large handful of pure bakeing soda, shake, and let sit awhile. I do 3 50 L stripping runs useing propane and a beer keg. Store on soda until time for a spirit run. Then I combine all in boiler, add another large handful of bakeing soda, and a large handful of canning salt (no iodine or dehydrates). I have found that this process almost eliminates tails, and gives almost an immediate 1.5 to 2 deg. C definative warning when to cut to tails. Before I started useing soda and salt, but the same strip and spirit run, I would do the long, slow carbon filter thing- by the book. No more, this now is better than the carbon filtered that I produced before, even though the first has been ageing for over 8 months (what little is left).

PS. I also tossed in a roll (50) of new pennies, and a cup of rashig rings as boiling chips. Really lets me know whats happening in the boiler, and stops boiling surge (many little bubbles instead of big exploxians and splatters at top that could enter the column.

I use a 3" X 24" cu packed pot still for stripping runs, no reflux and insulated column. This is on a 6" long 2" X 3" reducer. It takes me just shy of 4 hours light up to finish to strip 50 L at an av. of 58% ABV collecting to 30%. For spirit run I add 24" of 3" cu. packed column below, and attach water lines to the 3 cross flow condenser tubes at the top. I get consistent 94 to 95.5% and takes at the longest 9 hours for a 15 gal. run- light up to finish. I love this vapor sucker. I average a gallon an hour at above quality. (Again heavily insulated).

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays as much as I am distilling all my ferments 4 sugar washes, 2 all grain mashes (stripped today), 1 UJSM corn sour mash- first run, strip tommorrow, and a first time rum run, whenever its finished.

cheers

masonjar · Post by **masonjar** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:09 pm

New pennies are made of zinc with a very thin layer of copper on top. If the penny gets scratched then the acid in your wash will start eating the penny. Pre-1982 pennies (at least in the US) are made from 94% copper.

Home Distiller

Smells methoey

Smells methoey

Re: Smells methoey

smells like Metho and has a tang