making a reflux still

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:43 pm

So ive been researching to make a reflux still. Only thing is that I cant find 2" or 3" copper pipe (except online for $50 US a foot). I was thinking about using ABS plastic. It seems like it might work... it is usable to about 82C, so within the range of ethanol (and is food safe). Let me know what you guys think about it.

Post by **Tater** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:38 pm

nope ya dont use plastic in stills . this sight has a search why dont ya use it and read

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:00 pm

ive been searching the last couple hours and i cant find anything about plastic stills. I am also talking about abs, not pvc... also i heard polypropolyne is supposed to be okay. Where is a good place to find copper pipe?

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:48 pm

I typed the search for "plastic" and got 5 pages of previous posts. You really didn't find anything when you searched and read all those posts?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:05 pm

Grayson_Stewart wrote:I typed the search for "plastic" and got 5 pages of previous posts. You really didn't find anything when you searched and read all those posts?

Heh, prolly emulating an IRA landmine detector...you know, hands over eyes, right foot forward, tap-tap-tap.

OldStormy · Post by **OldStormy** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:13 pm

Hi Conquistidor,
Apart from all the other advice, you will get copper tube and pipe at a plumbers' supplies shop.
What country are you in?
Cheers,
OldStormy

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:41 pm

Im in the US, in california. I found 3/4inch at the home depot at $20 for 10ft and thats the biggest they have. I've been searching around town for a place that would carry it.

starch · Post by **starch** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:33 pm

The Home Depot down the road from my house sells 1.5 inch. I'm in CA also.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:56 pm

Go check out some scrap yards. Maybe talk to a plumber, they would know where to buy it if you want new pipe.

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:17 pm

i found a hardware store about 15min away that has a 5ft length for $40US. I think that might work... im gonna call another place see if they have any better deal.

Now I gotta figure out what size column im gonna make. I just measured to my ceiling... i can acomidate up to a 3ft-4ft column... is that tall enough? The top of the pot to the ceiling is 4ft 3in total. Im using a 16quart aluminum pot (i might go look at some garage sales for a ss one). Also what kind of torch can i use for copper? propane?

OldStormy · Post by **OldStormy** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:41 pm

Hi Conquistidor,
Mate, you really are trying to do it easy. All the info you keep seeking is already available here and on the net. Look up 'Brazing' & 'Silver soldering' & 'soldering stainless steel' on the net. Do a little more research and you will actually learn a lot more about the fun of doing it yourself. To anser your question, propane is not really hot enough, you need mapp gas.
Cheers,
OldStormy

Workerbee47 · Post by **Workerbee47** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:13 pm

Hi Conquistidor, If you can get 5' of 3" copper for $40.00, you better buy it, you can sell the rest, a plumbers price is about $16.00 per ft., but if I were you, call a large plumbing contractor, and see if they have any 3" and 2", they more then likely will, and if they do not, call the next one, any of them that do comercial work, will work with that size stuff all the time, the 2" should not be a problem at all with contractors, you might have to call a few to find the 3" but you should be able to find it by calling them, and I do not mean plumbers that do homes, they need to do comerical buildings, and they will have the 3". My condenser is 3"x 13", you can see pictures of it on this forum under (stills and Appurtenances), let me know if I can be of any more help, I am still in the process of building my reflux still, and that is how I got my 3" copper, I went up to a comerical building that was just going up, and they were running all kinds of 3", and I just asked them if I could get a 13" piece of it, and they cut it off for me. Again, let me know if I can be of anymore help. Oh, by the way, Stay away from Aluminum all together, can't believe that someone else has not said that, it will be ok at first, but will cause a bad taste later that you will not beable to get rid of, so stay away from Alum. Good luck with your project.

decoy · Post by **decoy** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:31 pm

I dont know what scrap metal yards you guys go to..

I pay:

$5 Australian per Kg for copper...
$2 Au per Kg Stainless

My scrappy is always stocked up with what ever i want..
in the photos you will see bins of fitings, endcaps, taps and valvs
verious sizes and full lengths of tube up to 6" etc etc...

talk to your scrappy offer him a few bottles of the final product....

OldStormy · Post by **OldStormy** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:32 am

Hi Decoy,
What part of Oz is that very impressive collection?
Cheers,
OldStormy

decoy · Post by **decoy** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:32 am

thats my local scrapy in sydney....

if you like to make stuff out of metal, it is a good idea to have a local scrapy as a friend.

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:28 am

wow! im going to have to look at a scrap yard (im not sure if there are any local ones, but a 30min drive might get me to one). At those prices i might be able to make a still before my next paycheck!

punkassrookie · Post by **punkassrookie** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:27 am

I am in WA, I went to the local independent- has everything you could ever dream of. I got 1 1/2" copper pipe for around 5-7$ a foot, they had at least 2" pipe I'm sure. They did it by the foot too instead of having to buy the whole pipe. Should be able to find something, check industrial supply places? THey probably have scrap they could sell you.

nimrod77 · Post by **nimrod77** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:49 pm

Even better to have a plumber as a friend when your making stills

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:57 pm

Now that is think I can get the materials with not too high of a cost, I need to figure out a still design! I've been researching it for awhile... I only need to make small batches (its of course only personal use!) But time matters (doesnt it to us all?). I saw a design that is a 3.6ft high column and 1.5inch diameter, with a flow rate of 40mL/min. Thats not bad! Its called the Nixon-stone design. Then I also saw the Amphora PDA-1, damn thats nice, but not within my budget (thats why im making a still!). The shorter the column the better, but purity is the number one important feature. Would a wider column make the still more efficent at a shorter length... lets say a 2" wide column and a 1 meter length? any suggestions of still designs?

thanks!!!

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Conquistidor wrote:Now that is think I can get the materials with not too high of a cost, I need to figure out a still design! I've been researching it for awhile... I only need to make small batches (its of course only personal use!) But time matters (doesnt it to us all?). I saw a design that is a 3.6ft high column and 1.5inch diameter, with a flow rate of 40mL/min. Thats not bad! Its called the Nixon-stone design. Then I also saw the Amphora PDA-1, damn thats nice, but not within my budget (thats why im making a still!). The shorter the column the better, but purity is the number one important feature. Would a wider column make the still more efficent at a shorter length... lets say a 2" wide column and a 1 meter length? any suggestions of still designs?

thanks!!!

That 40ml/minute will be the max output not the running rate. At 40ml/min your running rate will be around 10-12ml/min which is in the right range. I have a NS Reflux with a 2" column.

possum · Post by **possum** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:13 pm

You can make it run faster,but purity suffers.
You can make it run pure, but you will collect more slowly.
Is the limit the time for one run, or is the time limit the total hours to produce?

you can do a stripping run to strengthen up your wash, or you can ferment up to a higher%abv.

Stripping runs can be done in a smaller block of time. Reflux runs take longer, but if you strip first, the reflux run will extract more ethanol in a shorter time.

A wider collumn will alow you to heat your still harder without "flooding" your collumn. Height is important, as it allows the internal reflux to re-distill and seperates the water and ethanol as it trickles back over the packing with vapor coming up through it.

Sorry I couldnt tell you what you wanted to hear, I want the best of both worlds myself.

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:45 pm

my time limit is large blocks of time, so sitting there for more than an hour or 2 watching is my limit (work, school, etc). plus I only need a few liters of product at a time, since that would be enough for a minimun of a month. Then I could do again the next month, more fun spread out over time

knucklehead, what's your column hieght? wound it be worth it to buy the plans for the NS design?

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:57 pm

I have tried several different column heights. I started with a packed height of 24", then moved up to 36" and now I am at a packed height of 54". This is the height the column is packed to, not the total overall height.
Why would you buy the plans. moonshinestill.com has them. They call it a "valved reflux still".
Conquistidor, with the time frame you are working with you do not have time for this hobby. It is a lot of work and takes a whole lot of time along with having the potential to be very dangerous. I am a little worried that if you don't have the time you will end up leaving your still unattended for long periods of time. You say you only want to make a few liters at a time, but you also want to make really high purity product. I run 20 liters of wash at time. When I do a sugar wash run for neutral alcohol this is the time frame. Takes me about 3/4 hour to set up, filter my wash into the boiler. Then it takes about another 3/4 hour till I am up to running temperature. Then I let my column run under full reflux for a whole hour before removing a drop. After this I slowly draw off the forshots at 1 drop per second, this is approx 20-25 minutes. The I start to collect at about 12 ml per minute for around 5 hours giving me 3 1/2 liters of 180 proof. Then I strip off the rest of the wash, another 1/2 hour. Then there is the clean up, back flushing the column, scrubbing out the boiler and putting everything back in it's place. Add this all up and you get just over 9 hours. Now even if you cut the wash volume in half that's still 4 1/2 hours for 1 3/4 liter of 180 proof. If you get this process into your time bracket of around 2 hours it would be less expensive for you to just buy a liter of whiskey.

jlwggns · Post by **jlwggns** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:26 pm

i got some 4 inch copper down pipe for guttering one 4/34" one 4/ 44" after the ends cut off. seamed and tight

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:07 am

a 4+ hour time bracket is around the reasonable time i could do, plus my roomate is doing this jointly with me, so well set up and take turns watching the still, etc. what is the smallest sized boiler i could use? I was trying to set this apperatus up on my kitchen stove, since my backyard is jack-in-the box and the front door of another house...im sure they have enough curious people

possum · Post by **possum** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:06 am

It comes down to what is practical, I have seen boilers the size of a beer can.

Do not anticipate 100% extraction of the active ingredient.

50% to 75% extraction is reasonable with a potstill.

Anything under 1 gallon is rediculious, and not worth the cleanup and setup.

My 5 gal pot style is good for me.

strip run is @4hour timeframe, and after several, a spirit run takes a little less time, and less cleanup(no scrubbing out burnt particle matter).

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:43 am

ok, i was thinking 4-6gal ss pot with a 3.5ft 2"-3" diameter column reflux style. 3/8inch condensor about 10" long case to hold it. The structured copper mesh as the packing (unless its no different than ss scrubbers).

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:51 pm

okay, i bought the copper 2inch pipe (5ft), spend $42USD. may have been over priced, but only place in town, so whatever. I am thinking of following the http://www.mooshine-still.com onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow plans, but with a few mods:

1. I only have 2inch pipe, 3inch doesnt exist im my town (i literally called places for the last week). I've seen other stills on the site that have done it so I think i can.

2. slightly longer column... as long as i can go without cieling interference, i still have to get a boiler (garage sales this weekend).

any suggestions? especially this mod to the condesor... how long should i make it and what size tubing?

thanks!

Workerbee47 · Post by **Workerbee47** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:20 pm

Conquistidor, Have you tried looking on ebay?? You might find it there, I can't beleave that you can't find 3" out in CA., As for your column, mine is a 40" piece of 2" copper, that way I can get a full 3' of copper mesh to go into it below the reflux tube, and my condenser is 13" of 3" copper. You could make your condenser out of 2", but you will have to find a piece of pipe that is about 1-1/4" OD, to rap the condenser coil around. As for your coil, use 1/4" copper, you will not want it to be up tight to the inside of your 2" condenser, and that would give you about 1/8" on each side of it, and take your time raping it around the pipe you use or it will kink, I used a 2" pipe to rap mine around and that worked real good, but I still had to take my time to do it and get it tight. Did'nt I sent you some pictures of this??

Conquistidor · Post by **Conquistidor** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:32 pm

Im in one of those "small towns" that wont let target be here because its corporate, we just got costco last september and homedepot about 2 years ago lol! The hardware store i got the 2" was about 40 minutes away because the rest only carried 3/4 inch. Too bad im not still in socal, where it would be everywhere.

anyways...

i think im gonna do the 2" condersor (do you think 13" is long enough or should i do longer since its a smaller diameter?). I didnt get any pictures, btw.

Im gonna order the structured mesh from http://www.home-distilling.com/HD_StructuredPacking.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and some essences for my final product (after a couple test runs -- those seem to be very important)

will the extra reflux tube give me a lot more purity? it seems that a lot of people seem to drop that part of the design.

also, is brass harmful? i was think of using brass needle valves (like the plans) or should i reconsider?

thanks

Home Distiller

making a reflux still

making a reflux still

torch

Scrap yards

4"

Copper Pipe