natural airborn yeast?

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:24 am

So yesterday I made two 12 gallon batches of whiskey mash and had them sitting in the shop with loose fitting lids. They were coming down from mashing temps so they were probably sterile. This morning they are bubbling away. I didn't add any yeast. Looks and smells like a normal ferment so far. maybe a bit more sour smelling. How do you know if this is good or bad? Anyone know any signs to look out for? Golden Pond you out there?

Swag · Post by **Swag** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:58 am

Rejoice, natural yeasties have taken up residence in your mash and are working for free. Just like our forefathers used to enjoy.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:03 am

I betting they are there from previous fermenting going on in that shop...

so I have to change one thing about what I said earlier... It smells really rank. powerful sour *%it smell...I've had some rank whiskey mash before, but this is pretty tough...They are putting out a lot of gas...

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:58 am

Don't worry about it JD. I had a barley mash once that did the same thing. I left it overnight to cool. The next day it was bubbling away happily but it smelled so bad it almost made me puke. I added my own yeast anyway and let it run it's coarse. It turned out to be one of the best whiskeys I ever made. It had a smell and a taste that was very unique...probably one I'd never be able to duplicate.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:28 pm

yep, smells soo bad. sort of like a sourdough bread but much much stronger. I've never seen it take off like this. It is doing a vigorous ferment. running like a turbo yeast. So is there much chance of this wild strain producing something other than ethanol? or is there just no way to tell?

It's funny, this is something I wanted to research and learn about...Isolating and propagating wild yeasts... guess I'm learning now...

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:44 pm

found a few links... made me realize how little I know...But some are interesting....

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... able.html6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.honeycreek.us/wildyeast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and this: http://bavarianbrewerytech.com/potstill ... allery.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'll keep posting what happens for those who are interested.

As it stands now, I pitched bakers yeast into one of the two kegs. They are both still bubbling rapidly like a turbo yeast would do.

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:13 pm

junkyard dawg wrote: They were coming down from mashing temps so they were probably sterile.

Unless you boiled your mash after mashing it will not be sterile so the yeast that is doing the job is the grain's natural yeast, not natural airborn yeast.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:44 am

Well, the corn wheat and rye all boiled, but the 6 row malt was crushed and added at 170 degrees. After 2 hours it dropped to 145. I thought that would be too high for any yeast to survive. Pasturized? In any case, we're talking about 'wild' yeast. There are many kinds and differentiating them takes some specialized equipment. I may try to pick up some petri dishes and try to isolate and identify some of whats swimming in that mash. I'm pretty skeptical about this mash producing anything drinkable.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:52 am

I think you may be surprised JD. Just let it ferment and run it. Like I said the barley that took off on me turned out very well. I wish I could make another batch that would turn out with the same flavour.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:08 am

I'll give it a try UR. I worry that whatever yeast strain that is might make something more toxic... That doesn't seem to be too much of a concern for the wine and beer makers who use wild yeasts.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:18 am

I don't know if Golden Pond is back yet. He'd be the guy to talk to. He says the only time he adds yeast is when ambient temps are too low for the wild yeasties to start.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:37 am

yeah, He's who I wanted to talk with. He's talked about the flavor being different using wild yeast and I want to know about the powerful smell this mash is making.

Post by **golden pond** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:36 pm

Hi everyone, back for a few min, here today. Not real sure what you are doing there JD, did you heat it up first or what??? All I do is put the cracked corn in a barrel, use warm water to dissolve the sugar and just pour the sugar water in the barrel and stir it up good, cover with a piece of wire screen over the top to keep the flys and such out. I usally stir once a day till its done. The beer is kind of sweet at first after about the 2nd. day. when it's almost done bubbling, it has kind of a sour cider taste to it, you can drink it if you wanted, when it bubbles no longer it's ready to cook. Remember I rerun this 3 more times and use all my backset every time. It will be atleast July or later before I do any this year. I'll try to be back in a day or so JD.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:55 pm

Well, I ended up tossing the whole lot. It was foul and didn't smell like alcohol at all. I strained off the liquid and got so far as to put it into the boiler before I gave up. I mean really really bad smelling... Imagine a dog eating cat poo and then puking it up in a fermenter...

sorry, that may be out of line, but it STINKS.

It was a mash of about 60% corn, 10% wheat, 10% rye and 20% 6 row malt. It all boiled but the malt, and that was held at normal mashing temps for a long time. Was a beautiful batch of mash, the only thing I didn't do that I normally do is to put the open top kegs that I ferment in inside of a big trash bag to keep out the bugs. The lids are just loose fitting.

Thanks for gettin back to me GP. Hope yer feeling well.

Post by **golden pond** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:55 pm

Naw JD, you don't heat it up the way I do it. Try you some more, its plenty hot enough in Texas now for it to work off. Just take your grain, sugar and water and let it work off. I'll try to be back in a few days. This computer is at my shop and I'm not supposed to be driving yet, but have someone bring me here at times. Later GP

Watershed · Post by **Watershed** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:37 pm

I've not had much luck getting an airborne fermentation going but it's also possible to get wild yeasts off apples in the autumn and elderflowers in the spring. Heather apparently also works but I've not had the opportunity to try it.

Post by **golden pond** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:02 am

Years ago, there were barrels and barrels of liquor made in Golden Pond, KY and almost everyone I knowed of used air-borne yeast. It sure makes a difference in the taste and the after effects!!!!

Just remember when liquor was first made here in the USA, I don't much think they had store bought yeast to add to their mash, it all had to have started from air-borne in the beginning I would think.

Post by **Tater** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:30 am

Your right G P Ive posted somewhere in fourm the recipe for making your own yeast from airborn I copyed from practical distiller Samuels M`Harry Book printed in 1809

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natural airborn yeast?

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