coiling 1/4" copper tubing

hillbilly_john · Post by **hillbilly_john** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:40 pm

I've read the first few pages of search results "coil copper" but couldn't find an answer.

My question: How the heck do you bend 1/4" copper tubing to fit in a 2" copper pipe? I have the proper size tube to wrap around and I have a coiled bender but I can't seem to get it coiled properly. I either kink the tube or if I use the bender coil, I can't get the tube bent enough to still be able to pull / push the bender coil off.

Any suggestions????

expired mind wants to know.

jb

Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:03 pm

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =condenser
Check out Grayson's post 9 posts down. I used this method, except I wrapped around a piece of 1/2 inch copper pipe (5/8 O.D.) I did that so I could losen the coils a little so they aren't touching.
I posted pics at the bottom of this thread http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 34&start=0

runingkind · Post by **runingkind** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:23 pm

I READ ON HERE SOMEONE SAID YOU COULD FILL TUBING WITH WATER TO COIL IT .BUT THEY SAID THEY NEVER TRIED IT
I USED 3/8 TUBING.I MASHED ONE END FLAT STUCK THE OTHER END IN A
GARDEN HOSE FILLED WITH WATER.THEN MASHED THE OTHER END FLAT SO
WATER DON'T LEAK OUT AND WRAPED AROUND A PEASE OF PIPE ,WORKED GREAT.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:28 am

I took the tubing, straightened it out, layed it on th floor in front of me, then rolled it onto the tube. worked fine for me. no kinks at all. I did it this way with 1/4" and with 3/8".

nimrod77 · Post by **nimrod77** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:33 am

Use pre-anealed 1/4" tube. Tape it to the vice/bench at one end and bend it around your mandrel carefully keeping the presure close to where the tube is in contact with the mandrel.
I did this four times and have had no problems with kinking as long as you go slowly & carefully.
HTH.

hillbilly_john · Post by **hillbilly_john** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:46 am

I'm using type UT 1/4" pipe. Should it by type K or something? I think they only had one kind at the home center. I can try the salt thing. Didn't think this would be the tough part.

addendum: Stopped at different home center and they had some 1/4" tubing that seems to have a thicker wall, wasn't labelled as "type" anything and says nothing about being annealed or not.

gonzo · Post by **gonzo** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:46 pm

I use the bender coil, I can't get the tube bent enough to still be able to pull / push the bender coil off.

Yes, you have to be a bit forceful at times, I did a 13m double helix condenser coil with the spring method, and by the time that I had finished, the spring was rather warped. The springs are cheap anyway, so what's a couple of bucks.

What I did was, start bending the tube around with the spring till it gets to about half way around the 2" piping or whatever your using to wrap it around, then adjust the spring, pulling it future forward so it doesn't get stuck, then do the second half. So now you have a complete circle without having the spring stuck. Sometimes It will still get a little stuck, but with some pulling you will be able to get it moving again.

Play around with it, you'll find the correct point of adjustment.

MyDBear · Post by **MyDBear** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:10 pm

Stay away from tubing benders of any kind. To get a nice coil you NEED to fill the tubing with something (ie) dry sand,dry salt,water, ect. and do a little math to get the DIA. and length that you need.

grant · Post by **grant** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:57 pm

thing i found with the spring pipe bender, just a cheapy, it was getting stuck. What i did was bent around the 2" pipe you leave the pipe bender in/under your hand at the front of the coil and twist around the pipe. not the spring over the bend coil. this resulted in a nice even coil which i was suprised that i had made it

Swag · Post by **Swag** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:54 pm

I made a couple of coils by bending the copper tubing around a 1" pipe. I didn't use any springs or packing in the copper. Worked just fine; no kinks at all.

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:20 am

I've bend 6mm tube around a 22mm tube, without a problem. I even had the idea I could use a smaller tube (less then 22mm)

grunther777 · Post by **grunther777** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:35 am

A long piece of thin rope all the way through the tubing helps keep the pressure in the right spot you need room though cuz you have to pull with the rope.

fahdoul · Post by **fahdoul** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:40 pm

I just bent a couple double coils for a 1-1/2" column, and really like the salt method. Sure you can do it without the salt, but it makes it a lot harder and easier to screw up, and with the salt in it you can do a beautiful, smooth and even coil. I fill the tube with salt, shake and bang it for a while to settle the salt, then crimp the ends.

I found by the time the coil is finished the salt is packed so tight that it was impossible to shake or pry the salt out. I various methods like soaking, boiling and ultrasonic cleaning with no luck. The problem is, to dissolve the salt you have to get the water in contact with it, and the inside of a coil is like a series of airlocks which keeps the water out.

What I found worked best was to hook the coil up to a source of pressurized water, and leave it hooked up for a while. Eventually a little seepage will start coming though, then drops, and then it'll blow free. At first I used a shop compressor with 100 psi of air, but I found hooking it up to the sink attachement I used to hook up my condensor worked just as well, with the advantage that warm water could be used.

I wouldn't trust sand or cord or wire because, with a complicated coil especially, it get really tight in there, and if you can't get the filler out, your coil is worthless.

copperhead · Post by **copperhead** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:17 pm

there is a post on the fourm some where that tells you how to do this and it works without sand or water or anything else hard to get out after your coil is made not my idea but it works great .i used a pipe about three foot long . sit down put the pipe on your lap. start the coil very carefully .make two coils around the pipe with about a two foot tail left with the rest of your tubing laid out on the floor.hold the tubing in front of you in your left hand this is the part that is strait out on the floor pull the tubing tight with your left hand turn the pipe with your right hand.go slow the tubing has to be pulled tight. make a round or so and rest .it takes awhile to do this. just keep the tubing pulled tight with one hand turn with the other worked first time for me useing 25 foot of 1/4 od tubing hope this helps.

hillbilly_john · Post by **hillbilly_john** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:49 am

Following up since I started this post. I went to a different home center and got some 1/4" with a somewhat thicker wall. I didn't measure it and niether packages gave any hint to type of or purpose of each pipe.

Took the heavier pipe, stuck one end up thru a 1-1/4" x 16" pipe. Used the spring pipe bender to create a loop and come back up to start my coil. I used the coil bender and just bent about 3/4" at a time max. I held the blackpipe in my left hand and used my right hand to hold the coil tube while my lefthand gave a twist, probably about 1/5th of a turn. Any more and the tube bender got pinched too tight to get off. Took awhile, probably 20 minutes to make a 12-inch or so tall coil but it looks pretty nice.

After I was done, I went back and tried the thin-wall with the same method. It worked sort-of. I'm sure the coil would have been usable but it clearly had more partial crimps and overall did not look as nice as the other one.

My hypothesis is that those of you who determined that you needed to resort to water or salt and heat, were probably doing so because you were using thin wall pipe. JUST a hypothesis.

Hopefully I'll post pics of the final project. I'm still fighting with the seal on my milk pail lid. That'll be another post for help later.

cheers
jb

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:17 pm

I did not use the salt method and the inside diameter of the copper tubing was decreased enough that the recirculating pump did not have enough area to effectively push the coolant through.

nanosleep · Post by **nanosleep** » Sat May 20, 2006 10:34 pm

Copper will work harden. That means the more you bend it, the more difficult it is to bend. The trick to this is to anneal it. It sounds difficult, but is actually very simple. To anneal copper, simply heat it up very hot with a propane torch and let it cool slowly (cooling in air is slow enough for copper). After heating and cooling the copper should again be soft.
Using this method I have bent 1/4 inch tube into a double coil (coil inside of coil) which will fit inside a 2 inch diameter pipe. I bent this by hand only using a tube for a form (no salt, no special bender). A little patience is required and several heat/cool cycles.

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Sat May 20, 2006 11:59 pm

I've made some pictures while making my last coil a while ago, it was aprox. like nano said
(single helix)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/s ... AG0020.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/s ... AG0025.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/s ... ag0028.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c69/s ... AG0083.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
the bottom is not really perfect

fahdoul · Post by **fahdoul** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:54 am

True, the thicker tube is a little more kink resistant, but when you are bending a double coil to fit in a 1-1/2" pipe you need all the help you can get. It can be done without the salt, but it only takes the slightest slip to ruin the coil, and salt makes it almost impossible to. Also, a salt-bent coil will almost always be better looking, more even (this can be a minor disadvantage with a 1-1/2" double coil, since the tube doesn't flatten as much, and the coil is, as a result, a tighter fit in the column) and flow better. So I think of the salt as insurance, and, since its cheap and easy to do, use it even though it is possible to do it without.

hillbilly_john wrote:My hypothesis is that those of you who determined that you needed to resort to water or salt and heat, were probably doing so because you were using thin wall pipe. JUST a hypothesis.

Hopefully I'll post pics of the final project. I'm still fighting with the seal on my milk pail lid. That'll be another post for help later.

cheers
jb

PseudoX · Post by **PseudoX** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:23 am

I have just done a condenser, as seen here:

I just used a piece of 1" dowel, with a routed groove down the length of it, for the return line.
I then just bent it around the dowel, (on the carpet, might have helped) and took my time.
No salt or water or anything, no problems.

I also suspect that the tubing i used was thicker-walled than usual, but it came out very nicely.

fahdoul · Post by **fahdoul** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:41 am

Nice coil, though a single row coil is a lot easier to bend and most of my comments were aimed at anyone trying to wind really tight coil. With a single row you are starting on a 1" mandrel rather than a 1/2", which makes a heck of a lot of difference.

It would be interesting to know what kind of difference using a single or double coil in a Bokabob 1-1/2" style Mini-Still makes. The plans etc show it as a single coil, but most later discussion and pictures seem to refer to a double.
However, since the water heats up as it goes through, adding coils is a matter of diminishing returns so it may not be as big a difference as it would seem.

PseudoX wrote:I have just done a condenser, as seen here:

I just used a piece of 1" dowel, with a routed groove down the length of it, for the return line.
I then just bent it around the dowel, (on the carpet, might have helped) and took my time.
No salt or water or anything, no problems.

I also suspect that the tubing i used was thicker-walled than usual, but it came out very nicely.

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coiling 1/4" copper tubing

coiling 1/4" copper tubing

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