Water cooled potstill with optional reflux

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:37 pm

Here is the still I've been working on off and on for awhile, I used it last summer with a really shitty water cooling method. We went to the local hardware store the other day and got everything we needed to create the ultimate water cooling system: a PVC version of the condensors we use in the organic lab.

Necessary components:
2 lengths of plastic tubing.
2 PVC tube connectors (we used bigger tubing from sink to condensor and thinner as it leaves).
1 length of PVC.
2 caps the same size as the PVC.
A can of PVC glue.
1 sink adapter (bring the tap on your sink)
1 adapter from sink adapter to hole connection.
Total cost: $20 bucks

I don't have pictures of the building process because we were super concerned with getting it right: the drill we had access to only had one drill bit, and it was not at all the right size as our connectors or the size necessary to put the pipe through the condensor. Leaks were not acceptable!

Each hole size was measured by circling with a black marker around the piece and then a hole was drilled and widened by moving the drill in circular paths. It was pretty ridiculous, took forever, and if you fuck up you have to start over. Luckily we had like 8 feet of pipe so even if we had messed up it would have been fine.

Once all the holes were drilled we got a great seal against the pipe by not making the holes in the caps big enough, the condensor was assembled and then the pipe was heated on the stove and pushed through each cap so it fitted exactly against the pipe. The connectors were then placed in the holes and every seam was coated thicking in PVC glue (which works by melting the PVC so this aided us not having leaks). While we waited for the PVC glue to seal, about 2 hours, we assembled the sink stuff. Here is the final product:

As you can see in the last picture the still can be adjusted to stand on its own weigh, even with no liquid in the pot. The still itself was assembled with lengths of drinking water pipes and a cheap teapot from walmart. Steel wool can be inserted near the top of the still for reflux, and works quite well. Even without reflux we have distilled alcohol at 85% and it comes out from the condensor as if it had been in the fridge about 20 minutes. Not cold, but not hot.

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:03 pm

It will work, but will be ALOT of work to run off a 5 gallon wash and a hard to make the cuts. But if your up for it go for it, but i would look into replacing the duck tape? on the column. Git-R-Done!

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:21 pm

what kind of metal are the main pipes made of?

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:24 pm

It most definitely works, and works really well. The duct tape you see is actually 6 or 7 wraps of tin foil around the joint between the kettle and pipe. The tin foil is then wrapped with a layer of duct tape to prevent it from tearing. It gets hot but the duct tape is never in contact with the alcohol and doesnt melt or anything.

The remaining wash is removed from the kettle by siphoning, so its not too bad even though its so small. The next thing we're going to do is get a larger kettle to replace the current one. Any suggestions for a 1-1.5 gallon kettle? The pipe has an end that can have an adapter screwed onto it in order to fit it vertically onto a pot that doesnt have an angled opening.

edit: the pipe is galvanized steel, same as the pipe used for water in houses.
I've never heard that using galvanized steel is bad but it looks like it is. What would be a good replacement?

rectifier · Post by **rectifier** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:27 pm

that steel pipe will get super rusty, super fast. If it's galvanised on the inside too, the zinc is quite bad for you. same with any steel wool reflux packing, it will last one run, and your booze will taste like metal and have rust in it.

Copper pipe and packing is what you want. Packing will have negligible effects in a short potstill arm though... so scrap the packing until you build a reflux column. If you really want packing, use copper pot scrubbers.

Won't go into detail as this info is all in the main site, on selecting proper scrubbers etc...

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:36 pm

Its fine, you just don't really see information about using galvanized pipe to distill when looking at info about it in general so I had no idea

. The pipe is pretty cheap and will be decently easy to replace. I'll just do that and then switch to a new pot also, a keg is too big and I don't think I have the tools necessary to cut through the lid of a steel pot. Any idea about that?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:37 pm

aldehyde wrote:Its fine, you just don't really see information about using galvanized pipe to distill

Before you go doing yourself a serious mischief, read this...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distiller ... /35812?l=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Metals in Distilling

[/quote]

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:55 pm

Wow that really sucks, I've have never seen any of this information before. Oh well, We're going to replace the pipes used and just go with the condenser that we built. Thanks

.

edit: and before when I said it's fine.. I meant its fine that you don't lay out every detail. I'm actually an organic chemistry student and I do research so I have no problem finding my own information, I just assumed that pipes used for drinking water would be fine and didn't see anything that immediately alerted me to them being dangerous

.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:41 am

Yep, use copper or stainless ONLY. And be carefull what kind of solder you use. Hot alcohold vapors are much different than water.

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:44 am

it looks good, primitive but good (except the metal)
how is your pipe atached to your kettle?

it remembers me to my first condenser , the inside was copper though

muckanic · Post by **muckanic** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:47 am

The steel wool shouldn't contribute any iron to the distillate if vapour is all that is passing through it. Another point that never gets addressed very well when this sort of thread comes up is this: are we sure that Zn++ is any more soluble in hot EtOH/H2O than Cu+ or Cu++, and for that matter, are we sure that it is any more toxic? As a boiler, the gal will corrode faster, but that's talking an acidic environment. The vapour shouldn't be acidic unless the ferment has gone wrong and produced some volatile acidity, namely, acetic.

I must admit I winced reading about that single drill-bit saga. The fast solution is here is plastic T pieces instead of end caps.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:42 am

The steel wool shouldn't contribute any iron to the distillate if vapour is all that is passing through it.

HOT alcohold vapor can leach all kinds of nasties from different metals.

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:09 am

pothead wrote:
The steel wool shouldn't contribute any iron to the distillate if vapour is all that is passing through it.
HOT alcohold vapor can leach all kinds of nasties from different metals.

If iron is your only problem - consider it as a blood booster - unless you are suffering from haemochromotsis.

Post by **theholymackerel** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:42 am

Ya think so?

Try doin' some research on iron and fermentin' and distillin'.

The professionals in the industry do everythin' they can to avoid iron... to the point of bein' excessivly picky about iron in water even.

muckanic · Post by **muckanic** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:23 pm

pothead wrote: HOT alcohold vapor can leach all kinds of nasties from different metals.

The whole point of distillation is to separate substances in the gaseous phase from solids. Please describe the gaseous metals that you are referring to.

Whilst I'm at it, hands up all those who have solder in contact with their distillate.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:17 am

I was refering to steel wool.
Once, I used a cheap packing that I thought was copper...turned out to be plated....anyway, my product tasted like crap...very metalic. I threw it away, took the packing out, and it was already rusted. I replaced the packing with copper, ran the still again(from the same batch...my fermenters are twice the size as my boiler). And it was fine.
ALSO, my first potstill had a smal piece of steel in the neck before the worm, and every run had a tinge of the same metalic taste that the plated packing gave me.

SO, I assume that there are probably a number of compounds that came over(from the steel) to give me those nasty flavors. And, I would put money on it that they arent very healthy.

Thelonius Monk · Post by **Thelonius Monk** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:39 pm

Hmm, on this note and reading the above link...what exactly is "Treated" brass?

I have been using brass connectors (compression fittings, etc.) to go from the pot to the swan's neck and from the condensor to the collection jug.

Are normal brass fittings found in the "Plumbing" aisle in a Lowe's or Home Depot "treated?"

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:18 pm

I would love some help solving this dilemma: we've got measurements and all we need to know about the copper piping replacement. The condensor will be fitted to a copper pipe with the same diameter, so it can still be used. It works excellently, I am absolutely amazed at it holding up. However, the boiler is a problem for us. As you can see the actual pot itself is so small, and it will also be the most difficult thing to replace. I have no problem changing the still to go vertical instead of the angle we have it at, we just need to figure out a way to replace the kettle.

I don't have access to any really nice saws, especially not one that could cut a circle in metal. Would a cutting torch work? I don't want to have to break the bank on this, what is my best option?

edit: what about a crock pot or pressure cooker? Would we be able to somehow attach the piping the the steam release valve on a crock pot?

edit2: and honestly, as an organic chemist I've done far worse to myself than possible consume some metals. From what I've read zinc fume fever itself is only dangerous if the metal itself catches on fire. Not going above 100oC should prevent that pretty well. Any distillate made before we replace the pipes is going to be gravity filtered and then carbon filtered so I am not especially worried. Definitely replacing the pipes and the boiler though

.

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:46 pm

A stainless pressure cooker is a great boiler, you can find cheap fittings that will thread right into the hole that is already there.

Another option is a stainless stockpot. I have seen these REAL cheap at grocery stores. there are plenty of cheap and easy ways to seal it.

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:24 pm

We're moving in 2 months, hopefully to a house with a basement or a garage. Do you have any idea of the actual cost of using a propane burner? It seems like you could run it at a fairly low rate and have it last awhile.

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:00 pm

Use electric. I wouldnt use propane indoors unless i really had to. Hotplates are alot cheaper and never run out. I have a small 300 watt thermolene plate and it works great for my 2 gallon test still. For that small of a still it should be more than enough.

possum · Post by **possum** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:11 pm

aldehyde, beware of galvanized materials.
I know you do organic stuff, but galvo has Cd in it as well as Zn.
While trace amounts of Zn are needed for the body, I belive Cd is strictly a poison.
I belive the Cd is added to help along the electroplating process.
I am unsure as to the solubillity of Cd in EtOh and other still steams, but it is worth avoiding if it can be helped.

My hat is off to you for doin' Organic, I have been reaserching (against my will) protein binding, and it is blowing my noodle. There is so much to learn in so short of a time, and nature ( and man ) have created so many variations. It is like switching from English to Sanskrit, or Chinese. or Hebrew. Hell, I can't even figure out the alphabet.

Happy (and safe) stillin'
Possum

aldehyde · Post by **aldehyde** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:19 pm

CopperMan wrote:Use electric. I wouldnt use propane indoors unless i really had to. Hotplates are alot cheaper and never run out. I have a small 300 watt thermolene plate and it works great for my 2 gallon test still. For that small of a still it should be more than enough.

Yeah our next boiler will be between 2-5 gallons. I have a hotplate and it works fine on the stove now, just thinking of how it will work if we increase the boiler size that much.

And yeah, propane inside not good.