Article on Commercial Ethanol for Fuel Production

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:35 am

Is here:
New production method uses far less energy than it creates
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/20 ... ebar_x.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here is another interesting one as well:
Is ethanol the answer?
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/20 ... anol_x.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers,
J

possum · Post by **possum** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:01 am

Big J how much does gasoline cost in capetown?

Here on east coast of USA gas is about $2.50 per gallon(US).

Dad was in Namibian desert last year for his retirement "party"and loved it, wants to go to S.A. for buffalo(when money allows).

I'm 100% for getting ethanol into my car ( and the rest of the world's too), but it will take some time. The ethanol does grow on trees...at least sort of.

I would like to be able to buy drinkable ethanol at the pump...bring your own bottle, but the government around here works hard to keep the drinkable stuff taxed to high heaven.

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:29 pm

Here in my part of the midwest, gas goes for $2.25 to $2.30 per gallon, even though it varies widely in just a few miles. I understand that in western Kentucky they have used tobacco buyout money to build a large ethanol plant in conjunction with an agriculture co-op. It would be a good time to let our elected representatives know we support ethanol fuels.

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:01 am

Petrol is R4.60 per liter right now which comes out to about $3 per gallon. One thing that is nice about SA is that the gas goes further, because SA does not have the obsession with absurdly large engines (and vehicles) that the US has. My car is a 1.3 liter, and its rare to see something over 2.0. Oh, and we also have no emissions requirements, so you get a littlle more bang for your buck there in terms of power.

I'm actually from the US (California), but have been living here for the past 3 years. Was just back in the US for the holidays, which is when I took up distilling as a hobby. I am re-creating my fermentation and distillation system on this side of the world as we speak.

In SA it is actually legal to distill for personal consumption. I was going to post a topic on it after I find out a little more. Here, home-distilled alcohol is called Witblitz (white lightning in Afrikaans) or Mampoer.

I traveled to Namibia as well and thought it was really beautiful. Wouldn't mind going back there.

Cheers,
J

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:15 pm

Hillbilly Rebel wrote:Here in my part of the midwest, gas goes for $2.25 to $2.30 per gallon, even though it varies widely in just a few miles. I understand that in western Kentucky they have used tobacco buyout money to build a large ethanol plant in conjunction with an agriculture co-op. It would be a good time to let our elected representatives know we support ethanol fuels.

I agree HR ...
to day there are more and more comercials from ford, chevy, etc....stating that their vehicles are flex fuel vehicles, and they completely support the use of E85. I myself am looking for a backer to get a plant started in my part of the US.

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:43 pm

Good luck. The timing might be as good as its going to get. With tax credits available, a push by automakers and general public interest, who knows? If you are in a state with tobacco farming, talk with your Ag. people. What worked in Ky might work for you, eventhough the Kentucky plant is quite large, 150 to 250 million investment, I think. Maybe Golden Pond might know more about it.

possum · Post by **possum** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:30 am

A comercial ethanol plant is trying to build here in south central PA, but many people object to potential bad smell, big towers, ect.....F&^$ those guys. They are the same people who move out to the country to enjoy simple living and complain about the smell of cow manure. You want country livin' you get country smells.

Maybee I'm less tolerent of thier REFINED SENSIBILLITIES because I had my arms up to the elbow in a sheeps reproductive tract at a young age.

But times and communities change.

Post by **golden pond** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:56 am

That's done about 35 miles from me. They produced close to 25 million gallon in their first year and made a profit of 3.5 million dollars and bought about 8 million bushels of local corn to make it. Also talk of doing it in another city not far from me using soybeans instead of corn. I guess one good thing about it is, they are able to recycle the corn and use it agin for animal feed.

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:07 pm

That's 3.125 gallons per bushel,... mmm. I know that would be good for us, but I thought they would be able to push 4 gallons per bushel. Some of the commercial distilleries claim they can get that anyway. Say, how many gallons per bushel of corn do you get? (With "you" being anyone who would like to reply).

possum · Post by **possum** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:28 pm

I don't malt my corn , and I sugar my mash, but rough calculations say about 1 liter of 100% ethanol per 5 lb sugar. Give or take 1/8 liter per 5lb bag. This is theoretical of course, as I run a potstill for beverage grade stuff.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:33 pm

I still don't understand why corn is being used for fuel production....sugar beets is the way to go. A MUCH higher abv wash can be achieved with alot less money/time/energy.

~pothead

possum · Post by **possum** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:48 am

One issue with sugarbeets that occurs with many cash crops is; this speciese needs to be used with crop rotation,1 year in 4 the sugarbeet can be grown. The other three years a non-root crop should be grown on the land to avoid depleating the soil.

I might try growing them this spring...I hope my climate co-operates.

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:48 am

Get 4 fields run a traditional crop rotation root, fallow, animal, grain

i believe the idea there trying to go for is to use a waste byproduct from one area to create a fuel, or to create a fuel and using the waste byproduct in another area, much like Rum is a byproduct of the sugar industry created from what they dont use (or didnt use). sugar beets n potatoes and such like would involve growing a crop purely for turnin to alcohol (in my mind not a bad thing), but to stop these higher organization funded researchers from writing about the fact it costs so much more to make it than u get from it, they have to start looking towards using a waste product from another industry (of course if they factored the costs of oil based fuels the same as they do alcohol fuels then we would see which is really cheaper). But alas some people cant look to the benefits over the cost and some corporations dont want to loose there income if there was a switch to non oil fuels.

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:13 pm

If you find this thread interesting, you might want to check out the following site on cellulosic ethanol production: http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews ... thanol.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.

Also, if you think this is a new idea then what are they talking about in Knoxville, Tn in this Department of Energy publication back in 1984? http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/pro ... id=6076519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

maze48 · Post by **maze48** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:31 pm

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why corn is being used for fuel production....sugar beets is the way to go. A MUCH higher abv wash can be achieved with alot less money/time/energy.

~pothead

I have read that an acre of sugar beets can make up to 1200 gal. of ethanol. Were as the average car uses 800 gal. of gas per year.

I live in the middle of sugar beet country. The only thing about doing sugar beets is the smell. It is REALLY rank. I did sugar beets one time but never again and I live in the country.