New Valved Reflux Still

[Brewmeister]

Hi all,
This is my 1st posting on here as I have not long joined up.
Great site and a wealth of info on here too guys. Congratulations to you all.
I have been brewing/making my own beer for about 30 years now and thru some friends I met up with recently who distill using shop bought stills (and make some fine hooch too,) that I finally decided to take the plunge and get into the black art of distilling. .

I am presently in the throes of building a valved reflux still similar to the one on http://www.moonshine-still.com and I have been reading, reading and re-reading heaps of posts over the past few weeks and think I have over-read some as I am now a bit confused with a few things and am after some well respected knowledge from you guys on here. I know it has been hashed and re-hashed heaps of times but again as I mentioned I have read that many posts on this that it has become confusing.

I will be using a 50l stainless keg that I already have, which will be heated by 3 ring propane gas burner. I have also been able to source some 2" copper pipe for my column which I pick up on Friday, have got 1/4" OD tube for the condenser coil etc and also have got some of the fittings required.

What length should my column be or should I say what is a good length to have for my column??? The plans say about 28" but a lot of the guys on here have changed that and made theirs a lot longer. So far I am planning for about a 48" is this enough???
At this stage I plan to pack the column with pot scrubbers but am hoping to have the structured mesh if I can source it here in Oz.

What dia size tube should I use for my condenser. The plans say use a 3" tube but I think I read in one of the posts somewhere where they say that a 2" one is now a better option. Is that correct or would I still be able to use my 3" piece and put some packing/scrubbers down the middle of the condenser coil???? Would this be just as good or should I go with the 2"???

No doubt once things are up 'n running I will have a heap more questions on the actual distilling side of things but at present am concentrating on getting the basics done 1st.

Thanks again for a very informative site and I hope to be able to put some of my experiences into the site at some later stage too.

[maze48]

Welcome Brewmeister. The still your are constructing is a tried and true design. So go ahead and use your 3" for your condenser. The length of the column will contribute to the quality of your product. The longer it is the better quality. I have read that a good start with a column is 1 meter, 40".I currently have one that is 40", in length, and the condenser is 10" long. It makes a very potent product.

So enjoy your new found hobby

[copperhead]

hello brewmeister the highth of your coulm should be fine at 48'' just try and get at least 36'' of packing.as for your condenser i would ues the 3'' if you allready have it. I think the reason that some ues 2'' is cost. mine is 3'' with 48'' coulm and it does fine it really depends on how pure you want your product.you want your condencer shell at least 14''.mine is 18''with 24' coil but you can make the shell shorter by dubbeling your coil. I think some have coulms 54'' and taller.but they take up alota head space.hope this helps.you can put a uoin in your coulm and add leanth later if you need to welcomb to the fourm this is a great hobby.

[fahdoul]

It's too bad that so many newbies looking for very detailed still-building instructions end up with the Moonshines, because they are, in the opinion of many, overly complicated designs, and unecessarily expensive to build. The non-valved is a joke - there is just no reason to build one.

The valved is nicer but there is just no justification for the 3" condensor headm which realy runs up the cost and aggravation factor. 3" pipe is hard to find in small quantities, the cost of 3" fittings exhorbitant, and the increase in size does not yield any benefits - if anything quite the opposite.

Actually, considering the cost of even 2" copper fittings, one could argue that most fairly new builders looking to build a high performing still would be much better off building a 2" version of the Bokabob slant plate Mini. It offers similar performance and is much easier to build, and, since it requires NO copper fittings, can be built for a fraction of what the Moonshines cost.

[level Joe]

Welcome


I’d go with a 36" packed column as a minimum length, 48" is great.
Go with copper mesh if you can find it.
Use about 20' of the 1/4 OD in the shell.

The valved is nicer but there is just no justification for the 3" condensor headm which realy runs up the cost and aggravation factor. 3" pipe is hard to find in small quantities, the cost of 3" fittings exhorbitant

Don’t let him scare you off if that’s what you want to build. Is the 3" condenser shell really needed... no, but if you’ve never wound a coil before a larger one is easier. I found my 3" pipe free and the reducer was only $17 (and I know that was cheap). If you have 3" go for it, if not, use 2" (no big deal). Can’t say why fahdoul is aggravated by 3".

and the increase in size does not yield any benefits - if anything quite the opposite.

It must be the cost of fittings he’s talking about. Ill put the neutral from my offset head up to a boka still any day. With a little time and practice you'll be making quality booze no matter what type of valved reflux you end on.


If I was you, I’d put a fitting on that keg that would let me switch between heads, build a valved column later a start with a pot still. It’s what I did but in the opposite order. I think a pot still is more fun/interesting to run (think of the whiskey ).

Good luck and welcome.

[Brewmeister]

Thanks for all your replies guys,

Your advice is helping me heaps.

Thanks again.

[Brewmeister]

Well I've been able to get all my bits and pieces to start building.
Some of thse fittings aren't cheap that's for sure.
One other bit of advice I am after if I could - I am going with the 3" pipe for the condenser, and with the with the coil itself, should I only do one run or a double helical.

Thanks again for all your help

[1shot1kill]

I don't know where you are, mate, but there's a home brew shop here in Newcastle that sells Raschig beads. Pot scrubbers will also do the job, but see if you can get 100% copper ones.

[fahdoul]

One of the criticisms of the 3" condensor is that if you do build one with a single row coil as the plans show, you end up with an awful lot of empty space. For a condensor to work, the vapor has to come close enough to a coil to get cooled. Copper mesh can somewhat extend the coils' reach, but only so far. So you really would probably be much better off with a double just because it will leave less of a hole up through the middle.

Which, BTW, negates the only advantage to a 3" condensor anyone has been able to come up with - that it makes winding the coil slightly easier!

Well I've been able to get all my bits and pieces to start building.
Some of thse fittings aren't cheap that's for sure.
One other bit of advice I am after if I could - I am going with the 3" pipe for the condenser, and with the with the coil itself, should I only do one run or a double helical.

Thanks again for all your help

[hornedrhodent]

="Brewmeister"]

I am going with the 3" pipe for the condenser, and with the with the coil itself, should I only do one run or a double helical.

I'd go for 4 in a 3" pipe if you're talking 1/4"tube for the coils.

I had no trouble getting 2 in a 2" pipe with a 1/2" pipe up the centre.

Perhaps alternating left and right hand coils.

[copperhead]

if your good at bending the tubing id go for the double mine works fine it's single they work great eather way i use a roll of the copper mesh in the top of the condensor. I have never seen vaper escapeing but some say they have.I think you'll like the still they do take some time set up but I really enjoy running mine good luck.

[level Joe]

double helical

One of the criticisms of the 3" condensor is that if you do build one with a single row coil as the plans show, you end up with an awful lot of empty space.

Yes and it probably wont knock down all the vapor, but with commonly advocated changes like a double helix of 20' soft copper in a shell at least twice that of the plan they work fine.

Make the coil and then make the shell the right size to hold it. My inner coil is wound around a 1" pipe. I slid that coil into a 2" pipe and wound the soft copper back over that for the second coil. So... plenty of room for the etho to move thru nice and slow (no restrictions).

[Brewmeister]

Hi all,
Again a BIG thanks for all the replies - your help is really appreciated.
I haven't replied earlier as have been unable to log on till now.

I have a couple more questions that maybe able to be answered.

In relation to the Cap & Valves at the bottom of the condenser, how far inside the cap do you solder the pipes. I have read on some posts that you should solder them flush with the base, yet have read on some others where they say that you should have the reflux tube slightly higher than the take off tube as the measurements would be inconsistent due to the constant flow of distillate entering the cap area. Can someone elaborate on this please???
Also in relation to attaching the column to the stainless bowl at the base, I have attached mine yet the base seems to have a lot of flex in it due to the thin wall thickness of the bowl's base. Is this normal or should I try to strengthen it in someway. I have attached my column to the base via a brass coupler which is attached to the bottom of the stainless bowl.

Thanks again for all your help

[Brewmeister]

Just sending this one back up to see if someone answers, as it was posted just before the site crashed last time.

[Grayson_Stewart]

In relation to the Cap & Valves at the bottom of the condenser, how far inside the cap do you solder the pipes. I have read on some posts that you should solder them flush with the base, yet have read on some others where they say that you should have the reflux tube slightly higher than the take off tube

Tube placement in the bottom cap depends on if you have a valve on the reflux return line or not. If you DO have a valve on the reflux return line then you can place both line flush with the bottom cap.

If you choose to skip the valve on the reflux return line to save three dollars and have a little less control you can solder the relux return line 1/8" to 1/4" higher in the bottom cap than the distillate take off tube...the idea being you can reduce flow in the distillate take off line with a single valve and the product will eventually back up and fill the bottom cap and begin flowing over into the reflux return line.

I would always go with two valves myself. With two valves the change is instantaneous, you know for sure what is happening, you don't have to wait for a cap to fill up, and if you want to run in a pot still mode you can be guaranteed that there is no relux returning to the column.

Also in relation to attaching the column to the stainless bowl at the base, I have attached mine yet the base seems to have a lot of flex in it due to the thin wall thickness of the bowl's base. Is this normal or should I try to strengthen it in someway

If you are in the least bit wary of it's stability then do something to correct that. I'm here to tell you that reflex action will take over when a 180 degree F column begins to tilt over and fall. You will instinctively reach out to save it and the palms of our hands were not made for 180 degree temperatures.

[Brewmeister]

Thanks for the reply Grayson.

I have 2 valves and will have one on the reflux line. Just was a bit unsure as to the placement of the pipes on the base whether to have them flush or not.

With the base I will look to strengthening it someway as I don't fancy catching a hot column with bare hands should it decide to tip over, was mainly concerned with the 'flex' in the base than what could eventuate with the column. Thanks for mentioning that. I will make sure it won't be able to tip over.

[Soused]

Mornin Brewmeister,

A mate and I are about to start building a valved reflux still but we're having a few issues sourcing the bits and pieces. Most of the trouble seems to be getting the copper pipe for the columns etc.

If you could pass on any tips or suppliers that would be much appreciated.

BTW, if you are looking to insulate the keg go have a look here and scroll down to Product Group > Thermal > Fiberglass 550°C > Tempmat Batts .

I have been quoted $60 for a 1.4m X 0.4m (plus shipping)

You just need to keep on their case about your order

[Brewmeister]

G'day Soused,

Check your PM's as I have replied there.

Thanks for the tip on the insulation.

[Brewmeister]

Hi all,
It has taken a while but I have been busy with overseas visitors etc. Just about all finished and ready to go. Just waiting on a part that will allow me to attach my column to my boiler and then I am away.
Here are some pics of my progress so far.

Condenser Removed from Column

Coil

Column Laid Out

Boiler

Copper Mesh

I still need to cut the mesh to size and pack into the column.
(Hope thse pics aren't too big - I tried resizing to make them smaller)
Will be heating the boiler using a 3 ring propane burner.
Hopefully my keg connection will be finished this week and then will be doing some tests and cleaning runs and then hopefully doign my 1st batch sometime towards the end of next week.
I have cleaned the column etc and have now re-posted the pics hence the changes.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

[stoker]

nice still
but I don't see any device to check the temperature ..

[Brewmeister]

nice still but I don't see any device to check the temperature ..

I do have a digital readout thermometer and the probe goes into a purpose drilled hole for that probe in the 2" cap at the top of the main column. I left it out of the pics but it will be there when I fire her up.

[Brewmeister]

Finally have my still finished and now need to do a cleaning/testing run before I run my 1st batch through it.
Here is a pic of it attached to the keg.


I have been doing a lot of reading and searches on the site and still have some unanswered questions that I thought maybe some of you 'experienced gurus' could help me out with.

I need to do a steam run firstly to check all my joints etc and also clean the inside of the column etc which I will be doing tomorrow.

When I do this steam only run should I have the copper packing inserted into the column or leave it out ?

I am also wanting to do a vingear and water cleaning run.
How much vinegar to water should I use and should I also have baking powder with it and again if so how much??? Also should I have the copper packing in the column when I do this run, or leave it out ?

I have a sugar wash down and now am waiting for it to finish so I can run it through.

Thanks again for all your help.

[absinthe]

i wouldn't add baking powder as it will react with the vinegar, i do a vinegar run every 2 or 3 runs just to clean her out and i use about 8 litres o hot water and about 1 litres o vinegar, i don't think you need that much but i get it dam cheap lol,, but i do it with the packing in cleans the lot then.

[junkyard dawg]

I'd give it a serious cleaning and be sure to boil out the packing. Running a jug of cheap wine is not a bad way to clean it out too. Seemed like the first batch of alcohol through my new column released a bunch of goop -old flux and solder and probably contaminants from the forming process. All the other cleaners work too, but don't plan on drinking your first batch. Might wanna save that sugar mash till you've run alcohol through it once with something you can throw out.

Nice work though. You'll be drinking fine shine in no time.

[nimrod77]

Where did you get the roll of copper mesh Brewmeister??
Anyone know where this stuff might be available in Australia??
Ta

[Brewmeister]

Thanks for the help fellas.
I'll do a steam run today with the packing in and then get some cheap wine and run it through before I put this wash I am presently fermenting.

Have a few final cleaning/polishing things I have to do to the keg fitting etc 1st and then should be away. I'm keeping my fingers crossed all goes well.

"nimrod77" :-Where did you get the roll of copper mesh Brewmeister??
Anyone know where this stuff might be available in Australia??
Ta

Nimrod,
I couldn't source it anywhere here in Oz so ended up getting 2lbs from Amphora Society. From the time I ordered it was on my doorstep within a week which is really excellent service and the postage was cheap too.

Thanks again to all for you advice and assistance

[zeff]

wow what a shiny still, howd u get it so shiny? What sort of solder did you use? My silver solder isnt that colour thats all.....that looks more like lead solder!

[Brewmeister]

zeff :wow what a shiny still, howd u get it so shiny? What sort of solder did you use? My silver solder isnt that colour thats all.....that looks more like lead solder!

G'day zeff,
I scrubbed all of the outside with some steel wool and then used a proprietary based copper cleaner to clean and polish the outside. A long and tedious job but it did bring it up nice n clean n shiny.

The solder is definitely a lead free solder - has a silver content and high heat point - actually made sure it was lead free before I bought it.

[Brewmeister]

Hi fellas,
I am in need of some help please if I may ask.

I was finally able to get to do a steam/cleaning run today.

No leaks at any of my joints etc so all went well in that department excepting for the top of my condenser - I kept getting wisps of steam coming out.

When I finally got the water in the keg to boil, the thermometer at the top of the column was sitting on a constant 100ºC.

I have 36" rolls of copper mesh in the column for a length of 38" from the bottom of the column to the reflux tube. (I tried 48" rolls but they were just that too bulky so opted for the 36" ones.)

I had the cooling water running through the coil from the bottom to the top flat out and that didn't help. (I have really good water pressure here and was running the cooling water from a hose straight from the household water supply so I assume the water running through the coil is virtually as good as you can get.)

As mentioned previously I am using a 3 ring propane burner - I turned the large outer ring off and this didn't help, so I turned the middle ring off as well and only had the very small inner ring on and it stopped boiling and the temp dropped dramatically, so I turned the middle ring back on and the inner ring off and it started to boil again, and again, I had wisps of steam coming from the top of the condenser. I tried adjusting the heat down as much as I could but still got slight wisps of steam coming out of the top of the condenser.
I checked the take off and reflux valves and I was getting condensate coming through these valves so the condenser was working but it appears not well enough.
After I turned everything off I pulled the condenser shell and condenser from the column and there was plenty of condensate dripping from the coils as well as on the inside of the condenser shell.

Should I try to put some copper mesh down the centre of the coil to see if this will stop the steam emanating, try to cut back more on the heat if I can, or is it mainly because I am doing a basic water (steam) run ??

My coil is as pictured earlier in this thread - it is 13" long has 32 coils of 2.5" dia. and has the 'tail' running up through the centre. The condenser shell is 15" long.

Going by all the reading I have done etc it appears that the condenser "should be adequate enough" to do the job and maybe it is only me as the operator.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.

[absinthe]

i havent used one of these stills but i have heard o the problem before i would say its the fact that your doing water only, but i would stuff around the coil a bit too and give it another go.