New Valved Reflux Still

pothead · Post by **pothead** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:35 am

you used a single coil like in the plans,huh?

A double coil is the only way to go with this kind of still(as far as I'm concerned).

But, yes...I would try packing the coil up with some of you mesh to see if that helps(at least until you build a double coil.

Also...HEY, can you get a close up pic of how that connects to the keg? And what parts did you use?

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:25 am

that single coil should work fine with alcohol. be sure and stuff some scrubber in there to slow the vapor down. I have a 2" condensor of this design and never had a problem.

copperhead · Post by **copperhead** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:23 am

hello Brewmeister you want be running as hot with a alcohol run. I just put a peice of the mesh in the top. but you could put some in the center of the coil to.

Rebel_Yell · Post by **Rebel_Yell** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:23 am

Nice job Brewmeister.

100 degrees C is spot on. Now you have a calibrated thermometer.

Water has a much greater latent heat energy than ethanol.
You must add more heat to boil it than a water/ethanol mixture. Further, you must remove more heat to condense the steam back into liquid water.

I prefer the double coil and would recommend using some mesh to increase the contact area.

Brewmeister · Post by **Brewmeister** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:37 pm

pothead :- HEY, can you get a close up pic of how that connects to the keg? And what parts did you use?

G'day Pothead,
The fitting to the keg is a large brass compression fitting - one half is soldered onto the column and the other half has been brazed onto the top connector of my keg. My keg is a Thielmann brand but very similar to the Sankey Keg but has the European style tap fitting on the top which screws out and is not held in by circlips.
Here are some pics :-

Fitting brazed to keg top

Other half soldered to column

Fitting attached to keg

The fitting just screws into the keg and does not leak at all and then I attach the column to the keg.

The only downside is the hole is rather small but I have a high pressure cleaner and a 'cleaning wand ' I made up to clean the inside of the keg. As I am heating with propane and mainly be using sugar based washes I shouldn't have too much trouble with cleanliness. (I hope)

I was not happy using the bowl method as the base of my stainless bowl was too flimsy and there was too much flex in the base and also the column swayed too much for my liking - hence going this way.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:17 pm

Rebel_Yell is absolutely right re latent heat, and the coil you have, if working properly, should be quite sufficient for the purpose, in fact a 2" would have probably done just as well (and been more stable). One point I note is that you have the temperature measurement off the top of the column, wheras ideally it should be at the point of (or just below) take off, at a location that isn't going to get dripped on (and cooled down) by condensate; when you are looking to control to within a few points of a degree this could be an important factor.

Spike

airbalancer · Post by **airbalancer** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:52 am

If you increase the pipe to 3" from 2" for the condenser it should slow your vapor speed by about 44%. That is if "vapor" follows similar properties as airflow. Area X Velocity = CFM

Mike

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:03 am

Then isn't it better to control through management of heat input and/or cooling? A few extra coils on the reflux condensor and/or an increase in the water flow rate would have the same impact (...could do the calcs but no time at the mo and I think they are on the mother site anyway).

I try and keep anything I design as simple as possible - it normally works out cheaper and easier to build/modify/repair that way. 3" is expensive and you can't buy it in the sort of short lengths (normally) that you would actually use, so if it wasn't really necessary I'd try and avoid using it.

Brewmeister · Post by **Brewmeister** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:39 am

Hi people,
Another question if I may.

I did a vinegar/water run today and cleaned my condenser, column etc. Surpising how much it did clean things up. Left a bit of black gunk behind but I will clean that up in the morning.

The run went very well and I had little problem with this mixture compared to the water only run. Was able to control the vapour etc at the condenser a lot easier. Now I am starting to see how things should work when I do an alcohol run. (Keeping my fingers crossed

)

I bought myself a couple of gallons of real cheap wine the other day and am now wanting to do a wine run tomorrow to get the gist of things on a proper alcohol distillation run and see exactly how this still runs etc.

Should I just put the wine 'as it is ' in the keg or add some water to it and if so how much water should I add.

Again thanks in advance

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:40 am

You just use it as it is...

good luck, sounds like you are on your way...

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:05 pm

Goodluck. I hope it goes well.
Mike

Brewmeister · Post by **Brewmeister** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:30 pm

Thanks for all your encouragement guys it is appreciated.

Presently have the column & packing soaking in vinegar to clean it thoroughly and have just got all the bits n pieces to make a parrot's beak - so am going to make that 1st and then will do my wine run so as I can also get to see how the parrot's beak works too while I am doing the test run. So I may have to put the test run off till tomorrow.

I had to use 1" pipe for the parrot's beak as my Alcoholmeter has a dia of 3/4" and our 3/4" copper tube is 3/4" OD not ID so it didn't fit - however I was able to scrounge some 1" pipe otherwise with the price of copper these days the cost would be nigh on prohibitive. (I think they want about $45/m for 1".) Bloody expen$ive that's for sure

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again for all your help

Brewmeister · Post by **Brewmeister** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:54 pm

Well it took a while as some other things ended up getting 'priority' as according to the Minister for Finances I 'had to' get these little jobs done or my manhood would suffer

Anyway finally got my parrot's beak made and here it is.

All going well this time hope to give it a run tomorrow - but then again SWMBO may step in and cause an upset or 6

absinthe · Post by **absinthe** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:15 am

thats a nice beak, good job

Brewmeister · Post by **Brewmeister** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:25 pm

Hi all,
Well I finally got to do me wine run today.

Now I fully understand the difference between Heads, Hearts and Tails.

Ran 8 litres of cheap white wine in the keg. It heated up to 77.7ºC and it sat at that temp constantly. Couldn't get the 78.2ºC as is mentioned in all the literature etc - maybe because it's wine too. (I bought a new probe for my digital thermometer and calibrated it with an ice slurry as per it's instructions and used another 'true' mercury bulb thermomemter as a reference so the temp should be correct)

So I ran it under total reflux for about half an hour and then opened the take off valve.

Boy the 1st 250ml I pulled off smelt and tasted like crap - what a pungent smell nearly took me head off. Had a real 'methoey' smell to it.

I then took about another 300 odd ml's off and that was clean, pure, no taste and no real 'bite' to it.

I was running it through the parrot's beak and it was reading a constant 95% -96% at 26ºC.

Here’s a pic :-

Ran like this for about 1.5 hrs and then the temp started to climb slowly.
Changed take off vessels at 80ºC and had a look at the parrot's beak and the % there had dropped off too was now at 92%. Tasted the output and boy was it starting to get a crappy taste about it too.
As I mentioned earlier I now fully understand the meaning of Heads, Hearts and Tails.

Shut it down and letting it cool off now.

One thing I noticed was how easy it was to knock the vapour down compared to the water run and how easy it was to control the reflux. Virtually ran the reflux valve full open and the adjusted the take off valve to take about 1 drop/second or thereabouts. Maybe was a bit quick but it was only a wine run to give me an idea of how things work.

Thanks for all your help and advice it is really appreciated- now just gotta wait till this sugar wash has finished fermenting and then will give it a run through too.

Thanks heaps again.

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:54 pm

="Brewmeister"

Ran like this for about 1.5 hrs and then the temp started to climb slowly.
Changed take off vessels at 80ºC and had a look at the parrot's beak and the % there had dropped off too was now at 92%. Tasted the output and boy was it starting to get a crappy taste about it too.
As I mentioned earlier I now fully understand the meaning of Heads, Hearts and Tails.

Shut it down and letting it cool off now.

You could have kept collecting - there's a fair bit of ethanol in those tails which can be recovered later.

One thing I noticed was how easy it was to knock the vapour down compared to the water run and how easy it was to control the reflux. Virtually ran the reflux valve full open and the adjusted the take off valve to take about 1 drop/second or thereabouts.
Thanks heaps again.

So why waste a good neele valve on the reflux line? - when do you ever close it?

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:39 am

You can close it and remove the packing to run this column as a potstill.

Home Distiller

New Valved Reflux Still

New Valved Reflux Still

Parrot's Beak

Wine Run

Re: Wine Run