good answer

[brewster]

There are different views on just what percentage to pull, and even
the method to use for whisky distillation. Most will use pot
distillation for whisky production, and pull an average finished
product in the range of 60-65% (with pot distillation the percentage
will start higher, and gradually decrease). Some are starting to use
reflux distillation in order to gain better control, but most
traditionalists would not hear of such a thing. In answer to your
other questions: 1) I would not consider corn sugar to be a grain
mash. There are some, even distilleries, that would call this a grain
mash, but most would disagree. I have heard, however, of people making
a reasonable whisky from this. 2) The difference between whisky and
vodka is not as simple as 80% vs. 95%. Vodka by definition is
colorless, flavorless, and odorless. There are distilleries using
exclusively pot distillation, and never achieving 90%, that produce
vodka. There are rums that are pulled as high as 90%. The real factors
that determine the resulting product are the base that the mash was
made from (due to the flavor contribution), the distillate collected,
and any oak aging or carbon filtering that may be involved. There are
vodkas being made from rye mashes, which you would normally think of
for whisky. A different distillate collection, remove the carbon
filtration, and age in oak, and this would be a Rye Whisky. 3) If you
want control, then you should use reflux distillation. This will allow
you to collect individual boiling points until you have a mixed
product in the %abv that you are looking for. I would suggest going by
smell or taste, though, and not based on a goal of a certain finished
alcohol content in the distillate.

[Rebel_Yell]

I forgot.... what was the question?

[speedfreaksteve]

How about trying to make some good vodka or whiskey first, and then give us your theories about it.

You're talking about traditionalists.. are those the same people that told you to make whiskey by aging vodka in an oak barrel?

[Elricko]

I couldn't agree with you less. First of all I can tell you from a lot of experience that corn sugar makes an excellent whiskey. And it was is made using the reflux method. Most of the major whiskey distilleries use a continous still which is in effect a reflux type distillation. Considering that corn sugar is made from corn and corn is a grain how can you make the statement that corn sugar isn't a grain. Do you also suppose that DME isn't a grain material? I'm not saying that pot distillation of whiskey is not good, it's just that it's not necessary to make good whiskey.

Last but not least, you say that vodka by definition is flavorless. Again I have to disagree with you. Netural spirit by difinition is flavorless, however almost all vodkas, especially those made with grain have a flavor. That's what differentiates them

[Tater]

Elricko whats your recipe for corn likker using corn sugar and a reflux still to make an excellent whiskey?I used it with grain mashes to boost proof of wash.But by itself with a pot still Ive never got corn flavor outta it.

[Elricko]

Tater:

First of all I want to thank you for your posts, I always enjoy reading them and respect your expertise. Now, everyone has their own idea about how whiskey should taste so you might like mine or not, but that doesn't make it any less good whiskey if you know what I mean. I've been doing this stuff for quite a while and have tasted all kinds of recipes especially living as I do in West by God Virgina. So here's where I'm coming from.

Three other shiners and myself recently went on the Bourbon Trail in Kentucky were we toured different distilleries. At one of them, Four Roses, we had a guy showing us around who actually let us taste the white dog (or white dawg if you prefer). I am a huge fan of Four Roses bourbon so I use that experience as taste guide.

My buddies and I have made it using Uncle Jessie's method and other ways and it's all good. However, we found that in a 25L batch we use enough corn sugar to bring the OG up to 1.11 (usually about 18 lbs), let it ferment for 8 or 9 days, we get really close to the taste we are looking for. Now at Four Roses they use 75% corn, 20% rye, and 5% barley. Adding a pound of barley DME really nails it on the head. I haven't used any rye because it just doesn't need it. Then of course distilling it at 85% and putting it in wood creates the magic. Hey, it works good for us!

Cheers.

[possum]

ahh. The Corn sugar was with cracked corn...that makes sense.
The small experience I had using cornsugar, I used it with a little liquid malt extract, and no real grain. I got a spirit that can only be described as...yea, its spirits, but there is somthing missin'.

[Tater]

I make mine to my taste .Have never cared if anyone else liked it or not. Never have cared much for store bought likker anyway.But you might wanna try using grain to make some bourbon then compare.Aint to hard in my way of looking at it to beat hell outta anything store bought anyway.Cause belive it or not the flavor is in the wash/mash and taste is in the cuts and ageing.

[Elricko]

tater:

As you say, it's all a matter of taste. If what you make suits you then by God stick with it. I am a long time all grain homebrewer and do make whiskey with grain also. I also have a batch of scotch downstairs made with all barley in sittin' in oak right now. I'm just saying if you want some quick and easy bourbon you can make some pretty good stuff with corn sugar. I should add when I do use corn sugar I cut it to 90 proof. Gives it that extra bite.

Cheers