uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Uncle Jesse]

1. what is the size of your mash
2. how much corn do you replace each run

[blanikdog]

I finished up giving my polenta mash to the chooks and they seemed to enjoy it.

I then bought 40kg of cracked corn from the local produce store and am now into my fourth generation run and to my taste it's superb. Needs a bit of oaking but just fine straight from the still.

Trouble is, 40 kg of cracked corn is a lot of UJSM!!!!!

blanikdog

[mtnwalker2]

Trouble is, 40 kg of cracked corn is a lot of UJSM!!!!!

blanikdog

Thats enough for a good start! And the birds will love their marinated treats. My chickens do. What are chooks?

I'm trying to make enough to put in the celler to last so even the great grandkids can have a bottle or 2 for special occasions, many many years from now. Sighned label of course- UJSM 90 proof, 80 year old- Mountainwalker Whiskey!

[CoopsOz]

Hey all,
Excuse my ignorance, I've finally found somewhere to get cracked corn from (turns out it's only 5 mins up the road), but it's sold as animal feed. I asked if it was treated and they couldn't tell me, does the colouring change after treatment? I bought 2kg anyway ($1.65 per kilo) just so I can show you. One more thing, is this corn cracked enough? It certainly is starting to show that I've been a city kid my whole life





Is it ok to rinse the corn or will it take water? So many questions!!

[Uncle Jesse]

If it's animal feed then it's not treated with preservatives etc.

That looks like good old fashioned dent corn to me and it is exactly what you're looking for.

I'd like to see it cracked a tad more. 6-8 pieces per kernel is just right.

[blanikdog]

The cracked corn I got from the local produce shop looked like that but I put it through an old hand mill - a relic from my hippie days - to around six/eight pieces.

Sure is a better use of the old mill than making flour was.

Chooks are aussie hens/chickens.

[blanikdog]

Re UJ's questions to me about size of mash and added corn.

The mash is twenty litres and I add one litre of cracked corn to each new mash.

[CoopsOz]

Finally put on a UJSM, decided to go a double mash straight up. That was a bloody good idea till I had to lift it!

My O.G. is a little low, about 7% potential, is this going to be a problem? I kept trying to adjust it up but ran out of room in my fermenter.

[Uncle Jesse]

lower proof in your wash isn't a big deal. is this your first run? no backset or feints?

[wineo]

Its no big deal,cause your going to put it all back in the second run anyway.Just make room for more sugar on the 2nd one.I have ran this recipe with 1118 yeast,and whiskey distillers yeast w/ag.The 1118 is cleaner and makes great stuff,and the whiskey yeast gives more flavor,and makes great corn whiskey.{oaked} You cant go wrong on this recipe,Thanks Jessie For your wisdom.
wineo

[CoopsOz]

Yep, first ferment....therefore no back set or feints. When I run this initial wash, how far down do I take it? I'm guessing if it's all going back into the next wash than cut's aren't that critical.

[CoopsOz]

Having not done stripping runs before, I'd thought I'd try it with my UJSM which is currently bubbling away. I went looking for info on the parent site and this is what I've found,

Taken from Home Distiller.org.
Collecting spirit by temps alone is really unreliable- everyone has the thermometer set in the still in a different point- for some it could give false high readings- low for others- practice helps you figure out how to read your specific thermometer- going by the strength of the alcohol is far more reliable- and repeatable.

Now, for the good stuff: Most pot stills that are run commercially are run until one-third of the mash volume has been collected (3 gallons of wine gets reduced down to 1 gallon of "low wines"). The second run has the spirit collected when it starts coming out of the still at 75%abv, and you stop collecting at 55%abv. The stuff that came out stronger than 75%abv is thrown out as heads. The stuff that comes out lower than 55%abv is saved as feints, and added to the next run. The feints are added to the next beer stripping run if a lighter, more neutral spirit is wanted- common in Cognac distilleries, not with whisky, though. If the feints are added to the next spirit run, the resulting spirit is a bit more flavorfull- this is how whiskey is distilled. The total spirit collected tends to average somewhere in the mid-60%abv when collected in this style.

The 75% to 55% cutoff points are known as a "middle-third cut" among distillers, and is the industry standard for most (except Glenmorangie, which collects only from 75% to 65%abv- this is called a "middle-fifth cut").

This stripping down to 1/3 and then collecting from 75% down to %55ABV (obviously on subsequent runs) seems really simple, is this a pretty hard and fast rule, that if followed, will constantly yield good results?

[goose eye]

some folks take it down strippin to it quit burnin. they take a pint jug catch alittle an throw it on side of kettle an let it run down to fire.
it should flame up. when it quit you quit.

hopefuly oneday yall find 60s aint even old

[Monster Mash]

I think that the cuts at abv % will vary from still to still. The cuts will, however, be consistent on the same still. For example, my cuts tend to run from around 80% down to 65% on a PDA1 fractionating still. The cuts on all my whiskey spirit runs remain fairly consistent. Cuts on a different kind of still will not hold to this same ABV %. I read something once by Tater and he said something to the effect of cutting to the middle run when it tastes good and cut to the tails when it starts to taste bad and you can't go wrong. I thought that that was very good practicle advise and I am still learning, smelling, rubbing in my hands and tasting to learn the cuts without looking at the abv %.

[pintoshine]

You forgot the most important controlling variable. The wash you are distilling is constantly changing because of the input, sugar content and seasons especially fermentation temperature. All cut can change even with Identical hardware all the time. I have never seen any two washes ever be exactly the same. I have gotten repeatable close but not close enough to use any one indicator as to when to make cuts other than my eyes, nose and mouth.

[CoopsOz]

I tried to strip 50 litres of UJSM today and I'm not sure what's going on. I ran it as hard as my condenser will handle(2.2KW) expecting to reduce it to 1/3 of it's original volume. The problem is I only got about 5 1/2 litres before it got to 97 Deg C (approx. 30%ABV). It also smell's pretty bad, it stunk out the whole garage and then permeated through the house. I've started the resulting sour mash to see how it goes....but I'm not holding my breath!

[wineo]

Hey coopsoz,I remember you saying that you didnt have room for all your sugar.If the % was low,or lower than you figured,then thats why you didnt get very much out of it.What kind of yeast did you use,and how much?And when you said it smelled,were you talking about the distillate,or the mash,or the backset.My first runs are pretty spicy,but it gets better,after a few runs.I always put the first UJSM distillate back in the still,with the 2nd mash run.
wineo

[CoopsOz]

Yeah Wineo, my potential was low but it was still about 7%. As for the smell, it's in the wash, it carries over and then to a lesser extent, in the backset. It's not a rotten or off smell, I think it's supposed to smell like it.....it just doesn't smell good to me.
I've put on my first sour mash (25% backset) and it seem's to be going o.k, only time will tell

[Rudi]

Coops my ujsm washes dont smell strongly if anything they smell like corn

[wineo]

Coop,The smell takes a little getting use to,and will vary depending on what kind of yeast you use.As long as it didnt smell rotten,it will be ok.
The 2nd run distillate will be alot different,since the first was a sweet mash.The first one is a little funky.
wineo

[blanikdog]

I thought my first run of UJSM was going to be a total waste, but I stuck with it and kept it going for eight generations and after marrying the lot I finished up with a delightful surprise. Two years on oak will make one hell of a nice drink. The only problem is, will I be alive in two years? Ah well, it'll be a wake to remember.

[Uncle Jesse]

which kind of smell are we talking about?

the smell of the ferment takes a bit to get used to. the smell of the spirit is generally pretty nice as it's coming from the still. after it's in the bottle it can be a bit strong.

[CoopsOz]

Sorry UJ,
I somehow missed your question.

The smell of the first (sweet mash) ferment was pretty ordinary, it wasn't rotten, the best way I can describe it is a corn wine smell (yeah, I know how stupid that sounds )....it just didn't smell pleasant.

The spirit smell's the same, just concentrated. Bear in mind I went deep into the tails as it was only a stripping run, maybe that has a lot to do with it.

I've got the first sour mash fermenting at the moment, it should be ready to run by the weekend. I'll add the strippings as feints and see how I go.

[Uncle Jesse]

I reworded this to try to make it more clear:

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Uncle_Jes ... #First_Run

[Virginia Gentleman]

Hey ya'll, just finished a second run (double distill) of UJSM through my gooseneck pot still. Ran 6 gallons of avg. 60% low wines + feints saved up from 5 single runs, and have a new, 5 gal. charred oak barrel to put the results in.

My question is about mixing heads and hearts. These ran from about 85% at the start (after foreshots) down to about 62% where tails started. Volume of distilate in that % range is about 3.75 gal. So how much of the higher proof heads should I mix with the hearts for the whiskey that goes in the barrel. I know it's a personal decision to some degree, and I've had good luck going just on taste and intuition, but what has worked well for folks with this recipe? Sure appreciate any advice.

If you wanna see all the data from the run, it's here:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... rK2j27Q-VQ

[Uncle Jesse]

you don't want to age it in oak at more than 125 proof. this is the max proof for aging if you want to call it "straight" whiskey

[Virginia Gentleman]

yup, I always dilute it to 120 proof for aging. then cut it to 90 or 100 proof for dinkin

was asking more about mixing heads and hearts from the run.

[wineo]

I dont know how everybody else does it,but I do it by taste.I collect in 12oz bottles,so my begining heads are seperated from the middle heads,and so on.I taste each bottle,with a little water,and deside by taste,which ones to add.I do the same thing for the whole run.
wineo

[blanikdog]

hmm 80 abv in a pot still ???? are you sure its not 80 proof? No way can I get 80 abv from one run in my potstill

Nor can I, but it starts at close to 80abv and I cut at 40abv which usually gives me around five litres of about 70abv, and my potstill is as basic as it can possibly be.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I dont know how everybody else does it,but I do it by taste.I collect in 12oz bottles,so my begining heads are seperated from the middle heads,and so on.I taste each bottle,with a little water,and deside by taste,which ones to add.I do the same thing for the whole run.
wineo

thanks wineo, that's pretty much what I do as well and check that against the proof of each quart jar. how much of the higher proof heads do you usually end up keeping?

Is there an easy way I can drop the spreadsheet I use in the Wiki? A couple of folks have asked for it. It's basically just a modification of the tables from Ian Smiley's book.