Sugar Wash R+D

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:54 am

I have been trying to develop a new,simple,sugar wash recipe but want to keep it as flavorless as possable.There are lots of things you can add to these to make them work{tomato paste,orange juice,fruit juice etc.} but they all lend a small amount of flavor to the end product.
Im not refluxing these washes,but potstilling them,and some flavors remain.
Potatos always ferment like mad,rather you did a conversion or not,and it got me thinking why? Because there loaded with neutrents.
So instead of adding the tomato paste or juice,Boil some potatos with the skins on,and add the water to the sugar wash.I dont think you would have to add a large quanity of it,say a quart,and you should be able to cut back on the multivitimans{they also impart flavor}.
The potato water should be almost flavorless once fermented.
I have also been using a liquid vitiman for these washes that you only have to use a few drops,so you dont get any flavors.
I will be trying the potato water next.
Tell me what you think of this idea.
Heres whats in a potato

Nutrients in 100/g of potatoes Unit Baked Potato Potato boiled with skin
Water % 71.2 77
Energy kj 456 365
Carbohydrate g 23.3 18.6
Protein g 2.3 1.9
Fat g 0.1 0.1
Fibre g 1.09 1.5
Potassium mg 418 379
Phosphorous mg 57 44
Magnesium mg 27 22
Vitamin C mg 13 13
Calcium mg 10 4
Sodium mg 8 1.04
Niacin (Vit B3) mg 1.6 1.4
Iron mg 1.4 0.3
Thiamine (Vit B1) mg 0.11 0.11
Riboflavin (Vit B2) mg 0.03 0.03
This is why they ferment so violently.
wineo

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:51 am

cut em up an put em in cotton pilow case an then boil em.
just put sack in barel an fermint then lift an drain
cant see wheres there much flaver in one noways.
i no some boys that made one of them never agains with sweet taters.
so im tole

copperhead · Post by **copperhead** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:21 pm

what is the liquid vitiman you use? I'v only done a couple sugar washes and they both went really slow. are you going to put vitamans in with the potatos?

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Its geritol tonic.A bottle cost about $8 but I dont use but a 1/8 tsp in 6 gallons.It will last for a year or better.I started a wash yesterday with some potato water and some of that vitiman.Its been 14 hours,and its bubbling away.This is the first attempt with the potato water.Heres the rundown.
10 pounds of sugar {1080SG no higher}
4tsps DAP
4tsps Tartaric acid {Ph of 4}
2 1000mg biotin{crushed}
1/8 tsp of epsom salt
1/8 tsp of geritol tonic
1 quart of potato water
I boiled 2 cut up medium size potatos for 15 minutes{needs more}
poured off the water,let cool to 100f and pinched 2 packs of 1118 lalvin
I let it work for 2 hrs
I mixed the sugar with hot water,added more water to the 6 gallon mark
and airated it for 1 hour with my air pump.
Pinched the 2 hour old starter
I will let it work and see how it does.
On The next one I will use 6 potatos for the water,and leave out the geritol.My goal is to be able to do this with potato water and Dap and acid.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:22 pm

The first one has been working steady at 64f,for 8 days.Sg 1020
I started another without all the extra stuff.
10Lbs sugar 1080SG{6 GAL}
5 Tsp DAP
5 Tsp tartaric acid
1/8 Tsp epsom salts
Water from 6 potatos boiled for 20 minutes.
1 pack of 1118 in a half gallon starter that worked for 3 days.
Its getting more simple,if it works.When this one finishes,I will distill them both together,and see what we get.

Edit-8 hours after pinching,its bubbling 2-3 bubbles a second out of the airlock.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:58 pm

Had something interesting happen tonight.I was cutting a small portion of my mexican sugar wash with the tartaric acid,and I was dumping the extra booze in my hydrometer jar into a carboy of mexican sugar wash with citric acid.I noticed some ghosts of sedement forming on the bottom.
By adding some with tartaric acid in with the citric acid it formed some white sedement quickly.Its just a dusting on the bottom of the carboy,and the ghosts settled and disapeared.Does anybody know why this happened?

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:20 pm

{I edited the recipe some because I improved it.The amount of DAP }
{ was too much although it still worked.Using less insures that it all }
{ gets used up during fermentation,which will make it cleaner.}
{ I also cut back on the acid,and switched back to citric for better}
{ flavors.}

I ran both of those washes last night with good results.It made a clean tasting neutral with a mild vodka flavor.This will be a good recipe for the new distillers,or a change in flavor for the ones running the tomato paste recipe.
For the record,heres the recipe with a few adjustments.
8 potatos
10 pounds of sugar
2 tsps of DAP
1 tsps of citric acid
1/8 tsp of geritol tonic
1/8 tsp of epsom salts
2-3 packs of 1118,or 1/4 cup of bakers yeast in a gallon starter.
Make the starter at least 48 hour ahead of time so you have lots of yeast.
Make the starter with a 1/2 cup of sugar in a gallon of 100f water,and leave it open for 48 hours.{you can cover it with a coffee filter}
After 2 days,Litely wash the potatos,and cut them up into large pieces.
Boil them gently in a large pot for 20 minutes or so,and dont cook them till they start falling apart.Remove the potatos from the water,and dissolve your sugar in the hot potato water.{you can eat the potatos for dinner}Add this to your fermenter,and add more water to the 5 gallon mark,and add the DAP,acid,geritol,and epsom salts,and stir it up real good to mix in some air.Shake up your gallon starter,and pour it in.
Leave it open for 3 days,then put an airlock on it.{you can cover it with a cloth or something,but it needs the air}
If you keep it in a warm place it will ferment out in 14 days or so.If its cooler,it will take longer.
This makes a good vodka with a potstill.Much better than turbo yeast,and its cheaper,by far.
Im going to post this for everyone to try,and if everyone likes it,move it to proven recipes.

mtnwalker2 · Post by **mtnwalker2** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Wineo,

I lilke the idea of useing a pot still for a good clean neutral. I presume you just made one run? If so, what was your ABV for the keepers? And did you use any scrubbers or reflux at all?

Have you had time to judge the final taste yet? OOps, I see that you already have!

Mtnwalker2

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:03 pm

One run with scrubbers,and no cuts! It started at 63% and I ran it down to 35%.I threw out 250mls of forshots/heads and its mixed all together.
It has a vodka taste and is real drinkable as it is,but I will be potstilling it again and making some cuts on the 2nd run.Im saving it up for an 8 gallon spirit run.I have 6 gallons uncut now,and will be running another 10 gallon batch in the next few days,and the spirit run after that.

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:47 pm

Even though I haven't posted on this topic, it really catches my attention.
I am sure I am going to be down that way during my kids spring break. I am curious about the flavors you are getting, especially with the Geritol.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:06 pm

The geritol isnt really adding to the flavors.{I think}It would if you used more,but 1/8 tsp of it in 6 gallons isnt going to do much.I will save you a bottle of 1st run stuff for you to taste.It sure does work good as a neutrent/energizer for the yeast.Better than the commercial stuff they sell.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 pm

I made the 2nd run on that batch,and made hard cuts and kept only the hearts.By the time I cut the hearts to 80 proof,I had 5 gallons.Its the best neutral Ive made so far.Its very,very clean,but still has a small amount of flavor.I am still trying to make a simple clean wash for vodka,and this is my new wash.I have a batch fermenting,and my distilling partner has already ran this wash,and its even cleaner with 1 run.
We use 8 pounds of white sugar{in 5 gallons}1 tsp of DAP,1 tsp of gypsum,and 2 tsp of citric acid with a pinch of epsom salts.We didnt use anything else.Now for the yeast.We made a gallon starter with a 1/2 cup of boiled yeast{dead},and added a 1/2 cup of distillers yeast to the starter with 2 cups of sugar.Let it grow for 2 days,and add it to your wash.
The dead yeast provides enough neutrents to the wash to ferment good,and by using a 1/2 cup of distillers yeast,theres no problem with osmotic stress.This wash was extremely neutral.The one that I have going is made with the mexican{raw}sugar and will have more flavor than using white.You dont have to use distillers yeast.Bread yeast will work fine also.The key is using a huge yeast colony with the dead yeast in it.If anyone trys this,let me know what you think.I think you will like it.

Post by **MisterSteve124** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:34 pm

I have to give this recipe a try. I'm gonna try it as soon as I get some diammonium phosphate and tartaric acid. This sounds perfect since my last sugar wash is stuck. I will try it asap and post the results.

erbachem · Post by **erbachem** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:34 pm

Hi Wineo,

Any reason why you don't just mash the potato and add it to the wash as well?

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:52 pm

I just extracted the neutrents from the potatos without the mess.
I have been playing around with these sugar washes for a while now,and have made some real breakthroughs.The one I have been running,and fine tuning is by far the cleanest neutral that I {and others} have tasted,and its potstilled.I will be posting the recipe soon so everybody can enjoy it.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:12 am

Just a note on water hardness.I have been using gypsum for some extra hardness on these sugar washes and on the last one used calsium cloride instead.It seems that the cloride produces more heads and tails than the gypsum,but alot of it went away when I aired it out.Stick with the gypsum for best results.