Jackson Crossflow Condenser

[Bursal]

After much reading I think I will build one of Harry's design still heads. It looks excellent. One issue for me is cooling water supply is rain water and LIMITED, so an efficient recycling system is necessary. Space is a problem so it cannot be too big, large garbage bin is ideal. I can either use a washing machine pump or a pond pump, have both from previous systems.

It is going on a 25lt stainless steel boiler with two elements and one of Pint's controllers.

My questions are to users of this design are there any issues I should be aware of either in building or operating.

I live in North Queensland and the climate has been known to get hot so efficient cooling is essential, I would like to get the size of the water cooler smaller than a car radiator, any thoughts on a car conditioner condenser or a small room air conditioner condenser with an appropriate fan. Would either of these create a pressure problem for a small pump?

[Dnderhead]

sense nether pump is positive displacement i do not think you would have
problems and you could put a T with pressure relief so as to run back in tank thinking about it adjustable relief would give flow control

[pintoshine]

I am in the same situation as you. I have no running water and rely on rain water in the winter. Usually there is none available in the summer and I have to haul it from many miles away from a pay outlet. I hav learned to use air as a coolant. Most of my condensers are oversized and forced air with electric fans and such. I have a system where I circulate water through my column, through a copper heat exchager which is air cooled and then back to the column. I built the heat exchanger out of an automatic transmission fluid cooler. It was not that cheap but it removes sufficient heat to recirculate the water to the reflux using a hot water recirculation pump. This is a cast item which is used in hydronic heating systems. I get mine through a hvac supply called John Stone supply.
Not having utility supplied water is hard on a person. Next year I am thinking of a geothermal system for my column.

[Dnderhead]

Pint I could show you some pitchers that you would drool bout ,,but
it so cold hear i have to use heat in summer all but big ferments
some day i will try if i git brave i would have to be selective if you know
what i mean i have some i jest cant show

[wal998]

Bursal, i live in se qld and as i didn't like using a lot of water to cool my still when my split system air conditioner leaked gas and the pump blow up i strip all the guts out of the outside unit it bar the fan and the condenser which is used with a 1000ltr hour pond pump 10-15ltr bucket to cool the still, even on 30+ days and the 2400watt heating element the cooling water doesn't get above ambient. Hope this helps
Wal

[tracker0945]

Bursal, Welcome to another aussie.
A reflux still uses more cooling capacity than a pot still but if you are stuck for room, make your holding tank no smaller than your boiler and keep the water cool by adding ice bottles as required.
I probably have hotter weather than you and use 6 x 1.25 litre ice bottles for a 10 litre run.
Don't worry too much about water because if all else fails and your cooling containers are clean, just run your overflow back into your tank.
Cheers.


p.s. How far north are you as I am heading up that way at the end of this month.

[byacey]

It was -40C here the other day. Probably just a copper coil outside would condense real nice. I noticed my 94% stuff thickens up a little in the cold, but it isn't even close to freezing yet!

[manu de hanoi]

continuous setup allows you to use wash as coolant. I get 70 % purity with my first expriment with wash used both for reflux & cooling

[Bursal]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

One thing that comes through is we all have different situations that effects the way we have to setup and work. From freezing cold to hot and humid. Many with water problems.

From comments I assume that a small air conditioner condenser and pond pump will do the job.

I am going to town today and know where there are a couple of old A/cs so I will grab the condensers and test with the pump to see what flow I get.

I am also starting my scrounge for copper bits and pieces. There is no rush as I have lots of other things happening at this time.

Tracker0945 I live in the Mackay area. Send me a email from the members list and I will reply.

I will keep you informed of progress and will welcome further comments and suggestions.

[tracker0945]

You may have a little trouble cooling your water sufficiently with a fan and condenser, particularly if you are having ambient temperatures in the 30's.
I think it is mostly those who live in colder climates than us that use them with any success.
But then, you never never know.

[Harry]

Tracker0945 said

You may have a little trouble cooling your water sufficiently with a fan and condenser, particularly if you are having ambient temperatures in the 30's.
I think it is mostly those who live in colder climates than us that use them with any success.
But then, you never never know.

Well I'm the one who designed & built the system in question, and I live in the tropics a few hours north of where Bursal is. Same climate. My setup runs a 50 litre reservoir, auto radiator and a household electric fan and pond pump.
I've never had any problems with it. Because of the unrestricted coolant flow (compared to coils), it will run all day and the coolant hardly goes up in temp at all! Throughput of coolant is ~6 litres per minute, way more than coils, therefore far more effective at stripping away heat. It's all about thermal transfer capability. As designed according to the specs in my pdf, this tiny 140mm x 55mm condenser will handle 2kW standing on its ear. There's quite a few in use now. Several people have built larger versions. One local fellow has a crossflow condenser double the length (at 300mm x 55mm) and he does 3.5kW fuel runs at azeotrope in one pass. The crossflow concept is specifically designed to handle large volumes of vapour in a phase-change situation. It was adapted from huge industrial steam recovery units.

[Blind Eye]

Pond pumps should be good,I'm a bricklayer and on side jobs where there is only pond water I've always used an old submersible pump with the outlet necked down for a hose fitting.



I have let this pump run for days on days and have pushed a 100' of hose to the top of my scaffold 26' in the air and still had enough pressure and volume to wash the brick, just my half arsed approach to the cooling problem!!

[Dnderhead]

Out somewair in my shop is a dehumidifier it is a small refrigerator unit it has a spiral
coil to cool ,i think it would be very adaptable to cool a pail of water

[Tater]

Out somewair in my shop is a dehumidifier it is a small refrigerator unit it has a spiral
coil to cool ,i think it would be very adaptable to cool a pail of water

Naw dnder those little units dont move enough b-t-u-s to do any good.

[Dnderhead]

Well I'll cool my beer with it then

[tracker0945]

Harry,
I defer to your experience.
My assumptions were obviously incorrect.
I may try it myself now, easier than making & carting bottles of ice.
Cheers.

[tracker0945]

Back again.
Re-read your post Harry and have become somewhat confused.
From the original post I assumed the condenser would be used for reducing the coolant temperature but from your post it reads almost as if it is used for knocking down the vapour.
Could you post a link please?
Cheers.

[Samogon]

The condenser as originally specified is a column head cooler to induce reflux. So actually it increases the coolant temp! Head over to http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... 20Listings and click on 'Build A Practical Eco-Friendly Home Still' by Howard (Harry) Jackson. At the bottom of page 10, there is a diagram of the setup. Starting on pg 11, step by step instructions are given to build the condenser section.

[Bursal]

Hi All

Here is another post that may interest you,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/41346" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It is modifications for Harry's Jackson Condensor, this is the way I will go as it has the advantage of being capable of both VM & LM. Great design Harry.

[Harry]

Back again.
Re-read your post Harry and have become somewhat confused.
From the original post I assumed the condenser would be used for reducing the coolant temperature but from your post it reads almost as if it is used for knocking down the vapour.
Could you post a link please?
Cheers.

Pics are worth a thousand words...

[tracker0945]

Lovely, thanks Harry. All understood now. It was the car radiator that I was thinking of, not your cross flow condenser.
I was under the impression that car radiators were only effective to remove the edge off of high temps i.e. knocking 95*C back to say 90*C (as an example) but would not be effective in reducing 40*C back to 35*C if your ambient air temp was already 30*.
Obviously though, if it does the job for you at Cairns, then it must work.
Cheers.

[evilpsych]

i really liked pint's wanting to do a geothermal unit. A geothermal heat exchanger is as easy as digging a trench, laying some garden hose or other hose down in a loop, and just pumping water through it.. ground's pretty stable below the frost line at your average year round temps.. Would be pretty darn good for having a stable condensor input temperature.. i.e. always at 68, or always at 57 or whatnot.. very good for those long slow runs - should take most of the fiddling with burner temp out of the equation (but not all)... even better would be if he had a pond.. world largest coil bucket??

[Bursal]

Hi all
Here are the first pics of the new Beach Booze Beast.
http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65 ... e%20Beast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Still lots to do thermometer tube, vent on the crossflow condenser, cleaning, polishing and a support system.

The Beast is based on Harry’s Crossflow Condenser.

I designed it so that it would break down and fit in the cupboard it is standing in. The cupboard will have a hinged top that will form part of the support system. The column has slip joins and there are a variety of flare fittings to assist in dismantling and assembling.

A question I have posted a pic of the copper scrubbers I have, but not sure how to put them in the 2” column. If I just put them in the way they are it looks as though they will make very uneven packing. They are a mesh tube rolled up and they would be easy to unroll and could be stuffed into the column much more evenly.

I look forward to comments and suggestions.

I will post more pics when it is complete.

[HookLine]

A question I have posted a pic of the copper scrubbers I have, but not sure how to put them in the 2” column. If I just put them in the way they are it looks as though they will make very uneven packing. They are a mesh tube rolled up and they would be easy to unroll and could be stuffed into the column much more evenly.

Unroll them, lay them flat and stretch them out till they have no looseness, cut them into 1000-1200 mm lengths* (but cut them all the same length), roll them into a cylindrical sausage and slide them into the column.

*For a 50 mm diameter column.

The sausage looks like this, but smaller, this one is several metres of mesh.

[Harry]

Don't forget that vent tube. It is crucial to the design. It makes the environment inside the still equal to the atmospheric pressure. It also is an outlet for any possible overpressure event (safety first!).

[mavnkaf]

Hey Harry, I think you may have missed the bit about taking the LM fore shots through the VM condenser in your last picture. According to the mikes and your self, that is a no no. ei: keep the each conponents separated?

Take off the nasty crap slowly through the LM part of the still, then, when you’re sure that clear of the heads then switch to the VM arm. Set the drip rate to suit your setup and keep watching!
Cheers
Marc

Ps, Feeling shaky on this one but I'm sure the mikes have mention it.

[smallac]

That's right, The Beast is based on Harry’s Crossflow Condenser

[mavnkaf]

That's right, The Beast is based on Harry’s Crossflow Condenser

Yes I know, I made one some time ago, and made Harry's LM/VM Cross flow still head some time ago as well. These still heads are easy to make, more should be said about them.
Cheers
Marc

[kiwistiller]

Zombie thread! Nice to see you here Marc.

[bum.jug]

Per air cooling: I've been having a little trouble keeping my 55gal drum of water cold for an entire vm run now that it is ~100 degrees outside here, about 15-20F hotter inside my tin-sheathed shop. For my last 16 hr run I just took an old shit doublewound coil coldfinger and put my cooling water through it in the return from the still. Put a fan on it, and the water temp stayed pretty stable around 100F through the whole run. No need for the big radiator/air conditioner coils.