Starter

[Centimeter]

I purchased several packets of prestige whisky yeast. As a means of making the yeast last a long time, I plan on using a starter with an initial inoculation of 1g yeast per liter of starter. I will be using a magnetic stirrer which should translate to a pitching rate of one liter per 7 gallon fermentation. My question is, do I need to make my starter the exact same as the ferment I plan to do? The idea of spending hours mashing a couple liters of starter seems a little much to me. I know that this is important for beer, but is it really all that necessary for whisky? Would it be all right if I just used sugar and yeast nutrients in the starter? From what I understand, there is a risk of shocking the yeast due to change in osmotic pressure, however it couldn't be more so than pitching dry yeast.

Also, I was using http://powersbrewery.home.comcast.net/~ ... lator.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow to come up with a grain bill and I was a little surprised at how much grain it suggested. At first I was going to use ~10lbs of grain for each 7 gallon batch, however this calculator is recommending upwards of 15lbs to reach a SG of >1.06 (I plan on using 65% corn, 25% winter wheat, 10% barley). Does that sound right?

[Tater]

wait till ya make your mash then make the starter. Starter made from same wash/mash will do better ferments.

[Centimeter]

The issue with doing that is I need the starter to run for ~3 days to obtain the proper pitching rate. Is it ok to just let your mash sit around for three days? It seems like this would make it prone to infection. On that note, is it ok to let a hot mash cool in a PP fermenter?

[Tater]

Ive let washes set weeks.Just make sure its sealed up good

[Drunken Ogre]

If your doing the same batch every time, or at least something similar; what I like to do is make a five gallon batch of wort and then can it in quart jars. Then about two days before I make a batch i just pop open a jar pour it into a flask with the stirrer, add the yeast, and I got a good starter.

[junkyard dawg]

Why not just pitch yeast in the simplest way... make a mash, let it cool and pitch some rehydrated yeast on top, or do as many do and just pitch dry yeast on top of the cooled mash. After the ferment is done you will have plenty of yeast settling out to the bottom of the fermenter. You don't have to add any steps to reuse whats there. just strain off the top 'clear' liquid for the boiler and save the stuff at the bottom of the fermenter to start the next batch. A few scoops of the 'used' grain will fire up a new ferment like nothing else. You can run like that for many generations. After many batches things may evolve into something you don't like, but don't worry about that. Yeast packets are cheap. Minimal effort is needed to keep a strain going and you don't have to worry to much about using one pack of yeast in seven gallons mash. I just used a starter to grow out some yeast to inoculate 30 gallons of apple mush. I only used one little pack of ec 1118, made for 5 gallons. In that case you might want a good starter, but otherwise let the process do the work for you. If you are careful, clean, and mind your temperatures then pitching one pack of yeast in seven gallons of mash will work fine and produce enough yeast in the leftover grain to inoculate many times that volume of new mash.

hope that makes sense, Looong day at work today, and tonight, and all night...

[trthskr4]

The general recommendations of the guru's here usually say 3-4 lbs. grain per gallon wash. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Yeasty beasts are kinda like kids take em out sugar em up hose em down watch em git after it have a drink.

[19Kilo]

I typed out a monster post...then hit the left thumb button on my mouse.... dammit!

So let me paraphrase:

I'Ve never used the yeast you mentioned, but if it is a dry yeast, dont try to propogate it in a starter for future generations. Use the Cake method reccomended in the UJSM thread. Dry yeasts are engineered to be directly pitched, and I have terrible results when I have tried to step them beyond 5 generations.

I would advise using the Cake methods described before.... Ferment your first batch, then add your cooled backset and grain bill to the cake.

JMO
Kilo

[Centimeter]

I feel that my method is being misunderstood. Allow me to clarify. I don't plan on making a starter with the entire yeast packet. Rather I plan on using the yeast packet in increments. The yeast packet contains 25g of yeast and is designed to ferment 25 liters of mash. I will be taking 2g of yeast from the packet and growing it up in a 2 liter starter to achieve a proper pitching rate for two 7 gallon ferments. This will allow me to use a single packet of yeast ~12 times. If you figure in the fact that I will also be using the cake method and subsequently reusing the yeast, this equates to an enormous amount of ferments derived from a single $4.00 packet of yeast. I feel that this method will provide a means to easily reduce the price of yeast while still maintaining the integrity of its genes.

As far as just adding a new grain bill to the yeast cake, how do I go about reducing the flavor input from the previous grain bill? The previous grains will still be present right? I don't want to use a grain bag as this seems like it would impact the flavor profile as well. Do you guys filter out the previous grains? If so, do you have any recommendations for how to remove just the grain and not the yeast? If not, do you notice a difference in the flavor profile when using an entirely different grain bill?