Gin Botanicals

[Sandhusker]

Fellas,
I'm interested in making some gin, so I've been reading all the posts I can find here on it. I've seen a couple comments about guys not knowing where to get certain botanicals. Check out Monterey Bay Spice Co. at herbco.com, they've got all kinds of botanicals, spices, oils, etc...... I've done business with them for four years now getting spices for barbeque rubs and what not. Their service is excellent and their prices very competitive.

GO BIG RED

[Bohunk]

Sandhusker,
I love your new avatar. A guy who makes shine, and is a husker fan just can't be all bad.

The Bohunk

[Bsnapshot]

I see the Monterey Bay Spice Co has some essential oil of some of the spices. I may have to try some of them.

Also a few other places that are good for buying top quality spices are.

The spice house http://www.thespicehouse.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Penzeys spice http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/shophome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Penzeys has a lot of local stores. I was just there yesterday to buy spices for spice rum and gin...

[Oaty]

Thanks guys! I had heard of Penzeys, but they were missing some ingrediemts for the Bombay Saphire recipe. I'll have to give the others a look.

[Bsnapshot]

Hi Otay,

Do you have a recipie for Bombay Saphire you could share?

[Oaty]

The Bombay basic ingredient list is at the Home site. I'm working on a basic recipe,but can't find all the ingredients. Mainly grains of paradise and bergamot which I have no idea about. Most of the other ingredients are available.What I've got now is close , but not quite right. There's no point in continuing until I get the missing ingredients though.
What I have so far: Juniper 10 gms
Corriander 10 gms
Angelica root 1/4 gm.
Cassia 1/2 gm
Liquorice 1 gm
Bitter Almonds 1 gm
This is pretty much a standard gin recipe so far.
The need to add the 'grains of paradise' and I Think I taste a bit of bergamot also? Bergamot isn't listed as an ingredient , but I'd bet it's in there.

Anyway all ingedients are infused. As I said the balance is not right with the ingredients, but there's no point trying to get closer without the grains of paradise and bergamot. First, I'd try with & without the bergamot to see what I've got . Then try to tweak the ingredients. At this point I'd say the Juniper and almonds are too high, but then I might just be adding in to much essence. Just playing around at this point. I've tried orange peel instead of the bergamot, but it's toooooo strong a flavour. Makes it taste like an orange slushy.

I just checked the Spice House and they do have the grains of paradise. They don't have the bergamot. Since, it's not listed as an ingredient I think I'll start playing around again.

Any thoughts on maceration, infusion seems to be too dependent on volume collected. Masceration would allow you to play around alot easier?

[Sandhusker]

http://www.herbco.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow has bergamot essencial oil. Will that do you any good?

[Oaty]

http://www.herbco.com has bergamot essencial oil. Will that do you any good?

It's as close as it looks that I'm going to get. Thanks SandHusker. I didn't think to look under essential oils. Bergamot is apparently a type of orange used in Earl Grey tea. I've never heard of it being used anywhere else, but Saphire seems like it's in there. Maybe not , but I'll try both with and without. Not really going to get Saphire anyway. So, I'll go with what I like.

[Oaty]

For anyone interested I'll list the sources for ingredients:Note I listed Spice House instead of my sources as the prices/shipping is better
The Spice House:
Juniper Berries
Corriander Seed
Cassia
Liquorice
Grains of Paradise

Sutton Bay Spices:
Angelica Root

The Pastry Chef:
Bitter Almonds Essense

Monterey Spice:
Bergamot Oil

Also, Please be advised that Bitter Almonds is apparently slightly poisonous and should be treated as such. Keep away from children. It's a shame you can't get it all in one place. Shipping is killing me.

[QDanT]

It's a shame you can't get it all in one place. Shipping is killing me.[/quote]
I bet you couldn't drive round and collect, cheaper than the shipping price !
and at the other end there's someone to collect it! pack it! and post it! 24/7
stop winging and get on with it!

[Oaty]

As I said , I had everything but the grain of paradise and the bergamot which are both on order.

[EuroStiller]

I make a lot of liqueurs and recipes from the old country. I get the majority of my supplies from
http://www.botanical.com/products/bulkh ... kherb.html

They have herbs and Essential oils.

Be very careful with the Bergamot Oil. If it is not bergapten-free, it can cause allergic reactions in some persons, including severe sensitivity to sunlight, all the way to anaphylaxis. You should also know that not all oils will dissolve in alcohol, but rather form a slick on the top. Bombay, uses bitter orange peels. Easily had from most brew shops. I recommend some the dried bitter and the dried sweet. If you are some where in the country where you can get your hands on a real fresh Citron, use the fresh zest from that too! If not, consider a bit of fresh Lemon zest.

I did not see Orris Root, Calamus Root, or Allspice on your list. I have been using those in my gin for some time.

You will not find whole bitter almonds in America, they are illegal. The only place I can find them is when I go back home to Italy. They are used alot there by the confection, medical/phamaceutical, and liqueur industry. In the US, they are used primarily to make hydrogen cyanide, or prussic acid. Although, even that process has been change over to a mostly synthetic system. The bitter almond in America now is reserved for making almond extract. Go to your local health food store, or look online for Apricot Kernels. They accomplish the same task of delivering that bittersweet, cherry-almond taste. The bit of free cyanide that they do contain, is driven off during distillation, leaving the flavor behind.

I don't know what you have considered using as your base alcohol. From my experience I've gotten great taste from distilled wine (white) at 85%abv. I also macerate the botanicals for a minimum of 24 hours at 70-72F in a mason- like jar, in a hot water bath, before distilling.

Those are my two cents. Hope they help some.

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[Oaty]

Euro said

Be very careful with the Bergamot Oil. If it is not bergapten-free, it can cause allergic reactions in some persons, including severe sensitivity to sunlight, all the way to anaphylaxis. You should also know that not all oils will dissolve in alcohol, but rather form a slick on the top. Bombay, uses bitter orange peels. Easily had from most brew shops.

I wasn't aware that Bombay Saphire used bitter orange peel. I hadn't felt the need to buy store bought alc.since coming here. I just assumed the home site was correct in the ingredients. I didn't look at their label.

Euro said

I did not see Orris Root, Calamus Root, or Allspice on your list. I have been using those in my gin for some time.

I didn't use these either as I was trying to come close to Bombay Saphire and I missed the orris root. The others were not listed as Bombay.

Euro said

You will not find whole bitter almonds in America, they are illegal.

I've told that they were after looking forever for them. However, I managed to get them @ The Pastry Chef.

Euro said,

I also macerate the botanicals for a minimum of 24 hours at 70-72F in a mason- like jar, in a hot water bath, before distilling.

I had been infusing them in a gin box. I was thinking about mascerating to get an extract then adding to alc by taste. I'm running a reflux. So, I assume that if I ran a gin flavoured alc that I'd be losing all the flavours anyway. I do have a pot side, but I haven't used it yet. I've been waiting to accumulate enough for a full grain and a full malt run.

Thanks for the info. Especially the oils. In addition, I'm sure we can all use another source for botanicals. I'll try to see if the oils will dissolve after cutting the abv.

[EuroStiller]

Essence is just another term for extract.

2. a substance obtained from a plant, drug, or the like, by distillation, infusion, etc., and containing its characteristic properties in concentrated form.
3. an alcoholic solution of an essential oil; spirit.
from Dictionary.com

Pot still is the way to go. Refulx would strip all the flavors out.

Good Luck!!

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[bigtubgin]

I get some supplies from mountain rose herbs here in the US.

Shipping seemed ok and the selection was good. I ended up with large quantities, so now I have to get busy with more gin.

[Oaty]

Nice selection Big. However, as usual still missing a couple. I had to use about 5 different sources to get everything I needed. Shipping was a killer. Now, I need to get off my ....'chair'... and start working on my recipe.

[chefdaniel]

Bitter Almond substitute: actually an improvement. Mahlab, sour cherry pits, from Penzey's