UJSM Vs. Mashing

[WhiteLightning]

I was curious to which "Mash" would yield a more efficient brew? I understand from homebrewing that Mashing grain with malt converts the sugar in the starch, and all that good stuff. But im curious about the difference in ABV. and also taste? will the "traditional" backwoods method taste better than the more "common" method?

[trthskr4]

I just ran my first cooked mash yesturday. I don't mean to sound negative but I wasn't impressed. Although my mashing isn't the greatest in the world I still got a 8% potential from the last cooking. I ran 4 gallons of wash and got 5 pints of distillate from 65%-20% and none was drinkable. I'm waiting for this second mash to ferment (Just put it on yesturday) and we'll see what I get. I may just go back to UJSM if this one doesn't turn out. I have also spoke with UJ and am going to try to put together a picture tutorial with his help and probably others on cooking a mash this weekend. For now though I'd say UJSM all the way. Converting starch to sugars is alot of work compared to no cook method.

[Usge]

That would be awesome.....a pic tutorial.

[WhiteLightning]

hmm, im pretty concerned about flavor, cause ive ran some homebrews through the still and they came out alright, never really tried UJSM, i mean early on yeah, but for the last couple of years its been all rum or beer 'distills', not a big drinker of beer.

[trthskr4]

I think I've found my "magical" process for the UJSM. My 3rd generation is always the best and for a while I couldn't figure out why. I think the only thing that makes sense is that the first gen. I put in with the 2nd and then put both in with the 3rd wash and run them and it's always really good. Thing is by the time I get to the third generation that first is triple distilled and the 2nd is double distilled. I have quite a bit of 4,5,6 generations that are single distilled and am going to put them together this week some time and dilute them and run them for a 2nd distillation. I will do the same with my cooked mashes and see if there's any difference.

[Oaty]

WhiteLightnin, I can recommend a book, 'The Complete Joy of Home Brewing by Charlie Papazian. It's a brewing book but it has an excellent section on mashing complete with infusion guideline charts. It was my tutorial for brewing and worth a read. All the mashing techniques are directly transferable.

[WhiteLightning]

Oh i understand mashing, I just cant ever seem to get it right when im doing it in my kitchen, lol. Im getting get though just not good enough, thats why i have my homebrewer buddies make my mashes for me, lol. Thanks guys
Btw, I triple distill everything I make, its just an easier way to make a cleaner, smoother spirit.

[Dnderhead]

I know what you will find out mashing will give a lot more flavor, sugar wash ( like UJSM) will give more yield , I also like to run off at the proof
at witch I want to "age" at .that also gives more flavor

[Hawke]

Just got through doing a side by side with UJSM and an all corn cooked mash.
The cooked mash had way more flavor, about 1/2 litre less product for same size ferment, but needs to age before I would consider drinking much of it. It will definately be a better whiskey. If you want instant gratification, UJSM white dog can be an acceptable sipper, but it isn't whiskey.
UJSM is a good way to start for learning purposes and I will continue to do them.(Friends like it and it gives me some to drink while my mashed whiskey ages)

[trthskr4]

All right, I'm gonna try it again. I'm gonna try it though with finer ground corn, maybe 8-9 pieces per kernel rather than 5-7. Also gonna try to use enzymes as it takes too much malt which is hard to come by, then again I think I'll malt some corn and use that at say 25% of the grain bill. It is waaay easier to use sugar and just starting out UJSM definately has its place in the 'stiller's school. I'll give it its due.

[punkin]

"I just ran my first cooked mash yesturday. I don't mean to sound negative but I wasn't impressed."

So was it the corn's fault? It's just your lack of 'familiarity' with the process. UJSM doesn't make whiskey,
it makes "corn liquor" "corn vodka".....but not whiskey. Anything with sugar added is going to get you some yield....but taste is up for grabs...most people tend to favor the taste for mostly psychological reasons, because they themselves made it and we turn the tenderest eye to self. And....if one person on here who drinks his own stuff says..."It's smoooooooth...." Well...that's one person's viewpoint. You can make your "smoooooooth" sugar vodka all day long.....just don't try to convince me that you're being true to the craft of distilling to the highest possible standards......no....you're making sugar vodka. To each his own.

And...we get quickly accustomed to certain taste profiles and habits of making to where we slip into thinking that our way is the only way. Witness the 'one zillion and two' different methodological variations you read here. It's very very interesting to read!! It seems too, that people in the South just come out of the womb as DIYers, and other areas too I'm sure, but I'm from the South so it's more obvious.

Personal convenience is one thing, the craft of making whiskey.....is quite another. I'll be the first to admit of swearing up and down at low yields on all grain mashes and wondering what went wrong. All that work for a little bit of whiskey is frustrating. I'll also quickly attest to how much easier it is to make sugar mashes, many personal experiences with both.

Nevertheless, comparing "Uncle Jesse's sour mash" to all grain mashes is apples and oranges. Look at the originator of UJSM, who is now a legal distiller. If you think he's now just making huge batches of UJSM you'd be dead wrong, he's making pure corn whiskey, no sugar, and doing it by the book. There are photos of this right on this thread list. You see, if he made UJSM it could only be classified as 'corn liquor' and not 'corn whiskey' as corn whiskey is all grain. He's stepped into the arena of professional distillers and it's now about crafting the highest quality product to sell. This is no longer about running a batch of sugar vodka, taking a sip, and running to the distillers forum and going..."it's smooooooooth."

All this business of "corn likker" or whatever derives from a couple of places. They already knew how to make Rum from sugar cain. But when corn took over as the grain of choice the all corn mash was what you made whiskey with. Why not just add sugar? Because there wasn't any!! At least not in mashing quantities. Think about the Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia backwater farm life....you couldn't run down to the general store and buy a 50 lb. sack of sugar. Especially not when you've got 40 acres of corn to get to market, and the market is a long way away. What do you do.....you distill it of course.

It wasn't until prohibition times, with widely available cheap sugar, that the unwitting moonshiner turned to adding sugar to an otherwise corn mash to get better alcohol yields. That's the true origin of something similar to UJSM.

I'm nevertheless impressed with the results of pure sugar washes that are possible with good mashing techniques, and you can get a good neutral spirit....it's, again, not whiskey, but sugar vodka. And...there are some very very clever people here, I've learned alot here. Practice and repetition, clean equipment, and great care in the process should get you better grain mashes.

I guess it just gets on my nerves a little that the two are not differentiated enough in our discussions, so pardon my hangups.

Sorry, Dan, have a bit of trouble pardoning your hangups.
The snobby, snooty, purist stuff gets up my nose a bit.
I'm trying to learn both.
All grain and sugar enhanced stuff, whatevers good and whatevers a new skill, i'm into it.
I just can't afford to give allgrain whiskey away to my mates, but i can afford to supply em with UJSM till the cows come home. I've got mates who have said they don't care about better stuff, so long as they get ujsm they're happy. Not everyone is a whiskey connesuir, some just guzzle it with coke. Don't mean they shouldn't have something that's nice...or smooooooth.

S'only when the allgrain blokes look down your noses at the people who use sugar and say the things you do 'Sugarhead ect'.

But there's about 4 or 5 blokes on here at the moment that are trying to break into the allgrain world, we're trying to learn, we've done our apprentiship with the UJSM and DWWG ect. Cept we're having probs.
The same probs you've had and all the other allgrain blokes on here have had (as you aluded too) but have now sorted.
We've tryed to learn cuts, aging, flavouring, different grain profiles, wood charring and all the rest. We've done that with sugar based liquor before stepping up to allgrain brewing, cause no-one can afford to make all those mistakes and discoveries with stuff thats costing what allgrain does when you start.
But where's the help coming from with you blokes who are doing it week to week?

Sittin there in your big white tower while everyone else is banging they're heads against the wall...sure the outlines are here, and searches provide the info the same as everything else here.
But when we have questions, aside from Dunder, there's been a wall of silence.
UJ himself (who you point to as a golden example) said in emails that he was keen to help me along with advice on my enzyme journey, but when it came down to it, he wouldn't answer a PM or an email.
His perogative for sure, and yours to if you don't want to help people, but it just reeks of snobbery to come out and give others a lashing cause they're not up to your standards, while not offering word one of help.

As usual the establishment won't like what i've got to say, but i spose you can refute it, live with it or delete it.



edit; By the way, my UJSM (thank you UJ, not looking a gift horse in the mouth) sugar/corn/vodka/likker shits all over Jim Beam commercial allgrain 'Whiskey' in anyones estimation







OutThereAsUsualPunkin

[trthskr4]

I bit my tongue before Punkin there, and played nice. Yes that was a bit of a chastizing post Punkin.

I don't think Rembrandt thought his art work was hard to do either, he loved it I imagine. But I don't figure he chastened every kid he saw fingerpainting. All grain is a whole different beast with a whole lot of different issues, esp. corn. Everyone has to start learning somewhere. Right now I am not interested in the guvmint definition of what I make, I'm just learning. When I get to the right point I'll fly or fall to the ground. I would urge some of you other guys to assist us fledglings who are struggling. Dnderhead is a great resource who shares his knowledge with anyone who asks a halfway intelligent question and has earned my resect and gratitude. Husker helps alot of newbs also as well as others in their particular area of expertise. I have known alot of people who know alot about a subject but won't share it with others for what ever reason, that's fine, it's your knowledge and experience keep it locked up if you like but don't look down at others trying to learn without all the available resources.

[theholymackerel]

Sorry yer so stressed Punkin.

I hear yer frustration, and understand why yer lashin' out, but lashin' out will tend to make yer prophesy self-fulfillin'.

If UJ hasn't contacted ya yet, and he said he would, then it just hasn't happened YET. (He's got a marriage with a child, a new business with partners, a forum to administer, and a whole life to live... You know: A Full Plate.) As things reach fullness they happen.

Yer mention of a term I use frequently (sugarhead) makes me think yer talkin' 'bout me too. All I can say in my defence is (1) "sugarhead" is a old and traditional Northamerican term for sugar liquor. I don't use it to disparage, just to differentiate. Whiskey is whiskey, rum is rum, cats are cats, dogs are dogs, and sugarhead is sugarhead. And (2) the section I have posted more replys than any other is this "mashing and fermenting" section. Folks seem to have more problems with these two topics than any others. I try and help. If a question is asked, and someone hasn't allready stepped up to the plate, then I do (or try to).

I'm sorry yer frustrated, and I understand yer frustration. No-one here is hidin' or withholdin' info from ya. No-one is Lordin' over ya or tryin' to hold ya down. Keep askin' question, and everyone will keep tryin' to answer 'em as best they can.

I truly don't see this "wall of silence" that you mention. If you have asked any questions that didn't get answered, "bump" that post and I'll happily try and answer it to the best of my poor communication skills. I'm sure everyone else will too.

So, basically, understand no-one is screwin' with ya, we want to help, and the next time yer frustrated have a big glass of sugarhead and relax. ( )

[theholymackerel]

Somethin' "Grizzly 1" posted in the Novice section would be great advice here.

Look up yer local homebrew club. Runnin' a still may be illegal where you are, but mashin' grain definately isn't. Some folks learn MUCH easier watchin' somethin' bein' done, rather than readin' instructions from someone like me that doen't communicate well.

If ya hook up with yer local brewclub they can point out who are the allgrain brewers and ya can ask them to let ya watch a mash and ask questions. Ya might even be able to find folks who would trade bottles or kegs of extraordinary beer for bottles of yer fine product.








I wish ya luck.

[Dan Call]

I'm sure the problem with your nose can be fixed...Punkin....whether or not UJSM is better than Beam....again,
absolutely subjective.

Apologies if that post was offensive to anyone.....we all have things to learn, especially me, no offense intended.
I'm here to learn, and I take this whole distilling thing seriously.

Seriously guys......the seriousness of the post was with regard to the craft of distilling, not to cast aspersion
on anyone's knowledge, I didn't, nor do I, claim to know more than anyone else, plenty here that know more than
I do and the "ivory tower" thing is completely off base. And Uncle Jesse IS a great example because he's done more
than 99% of everyone on here has done, he's legit, and he's now in the professional arena. That's doing something,
that's an accomplishment. Especially if you consider that any of us who've gotten anything resembling drinkable
distillate out of a still from a mash we made are thereby distinguished from 99.99% of the general populace. Even
the most simple and meager of us have done something that is surely not easy, takes time, concentrated effort.
I'm not pissin' on anybody here......just looking to the higher ground, the craft. There's certainly many here that
don't give a rat's about it......so....like I said, to each his own.

I was speaking from the perspective of someone who aspires to be a commercial distiller, in case that wasn't obvious,
rather than just making sugar vodka cheaply to make sure I also have something to drink.

Again, I've learned alot here. It's a simple thing to learn to clearly differentiate what
we call what are doing and how we approach it.

Hangups will be sustained.

[Dnderhead]

Over the years Iv develop "a take it or leave it" attitude if you don't like what "we" or I'm doing just go to another thread
( I love to try to help it gives me a feeling of accompaniment ) so ------- I believe the problem in low yield is in the cooking not in the conversion I have found uncooked particles in the corn
after cooking /mashing . with limited resources its hard to try all the different ways ( iv tried presser cooking, took less time but still will burn) (steam, injection , etc ) The best that I have
found is light mash (1-1 1/2 lb per gal) but even so it takes 1-2hr cooking to git the starch out and that is a lot of stirling
If you can fiend an old ice cream maker that would be a blessing,

[punkin]

Sorry yer so stressed Punkin.

I hear yer frustration, and understand why yer lashin' out, but lashin' out will tend to make yer prophesy self-fulfillin'.

If UJ hasn't contacted ya yet, and he said he would, then it just hasn't happened YET. (He's got a marriage with a child, a new business with partners, a forum to administer, and a whole life to live... You know: A Full Plate.) As things reach fullness they happen.

Yer mention of a term I use frequently (sugarhead) makes me think yer talkin' 'bout me too. All I can say in my defence is (1) "sugarhead" is a old and traditional Northamerican term for sugar liquor. I don't use it to disparage, just to differentiate. Whiskey is whiskey, rum is rum, cats are cats, dogs are dogs, and sugarhead is sugarhead. And (2) the section I have posted more replys than any other is this "mashing and fermenting" section. Folks seem to have more problems with these two topics than any others. I try and help. If a question is asked, and someone hasn't allready stepped up to the plate, then I do (or try to).

I'm sorry yer frustrated, and I understand yer frustration. No-one here is hidin' or withholdin' info from ya. No-one is Lordin' over ya or tryin' to hold ya down. Keep askin' question, and everyone will keep tryin' to answer 'em as best they can.

I truly don't see this "wall of silence" that you mention. If you have asked any questions that didn't get answered, "bump" that post and I'll happily try and answer it to the best of my poor communication skills. I'm sure everyone else will too.

So, basically, understand no-one is screwin' with ya, we want to help, and the next time yer frustrated have a big glass of sugarhead and relax. ( )

Not really that i'm lashing out from frustration (although as dan said, what i'm learning IS frustrating), more that i took Dans words to heart and bucked up about it.

Just figured that there shouldn't be stones cast from the high ground. And i reckon that's a fair call.

I spose i was thinking of you (and others) when i made the sugarhead statement, and i apologise for singling you out thm...mostly my frustration came from trying to figure out my yeild. The rest of my questions i can mostly figure out through reading old threads and general discussion, but i had a problem trying to undestand how the yeild charts worked (and still can't) so posed a question on the Enzyme Quantities thread about 'How much total alchohol can i expect from X kilos/pounds of corn at what percent?' I figure it's an easy question, lots of people could give em a ballpark if the do indeed mash corn without sugar. Just want to know if i'm in the ballpark and i'm happy.
I know when people ask me the same question about ujsm, i can say 'About a litre per kilo of sugar, starting at 68% and running down to 20% on my rig' and i do.
So is spose that's where that comes from and i guess it's not really germaine except as i say, that i reckon those who know what they're talking about don't have the right to disparage people who don't know unless they're also trying to help educate.
Don't feel like helping? Fine, but shutup about how much truer to the ideals of the craft you are.

As far as people not answering PM's they've found the time to read, i should not have even mentioned it. I'm outa line and apologise, no-ones obligated to help anyone else or even reply to them.

I'm sorry if i snapped at ya Dan, and i mighta got a little more carried away than i normally woulda, as THM say's, the subject is a little touchy for me atm.
I'm sure you didn't mean for your post to come across as much the way it did, but the ivory tower and all that was a reflection of the way your post sounds as it's read.


Subjective as it may be, enough people have backed to backed it for me to put a stake up

[Dan Call]

Punkin......I'm at fault for stating things that way.......you're cool in my distilling manual. I've read tons and
tons of your posts and I know you know what you're doing. And.....one would be forced to admit that it is
possible to make some UJSM that IS better than Beam, in the right hands. So I'll concede that.

Maybe I should say I'm a "Smileyian" in that when I first came to this whole business, Ian Smiley's book was
not long released and in addition one, which is not a terribly long time ago. How you first come to something
will forever effect how you view the rest of it......if your first car is a Ferrari, you look at cars completely
differently than someone who's first car was a VW bug. That's not to say that there can't be mutual appreciation
and benefit.

Nuff' said....I'm here to learn......and that above all else.

[punkin]

Good on ya Dan, and apologies again. I should be more tolerant than i am. Thank you for the compliments, and i have to say i was out of line on the input you've had to help others too, after searching your posts i've found a lot more than i remembered.









AnyMoreOfThisWe'llHaveToGetARoomPunkin

[MountedGoat]

I was speaking from the perspective of someone who aspires to be a commercial distiller, in case that wasn't obvious,
rather than just making sugar vodka cheaply to make sure I also have something to drink.

I want to point out that it is like saying that what you make in the south isn't wine because it isn't made out of Wine Grapes. People are making a beverage that tastes good, can be reproduced cheaply and easily, are learning the craft of sanitation, fermentation and distilling and then taking all of those points and having others try it.

I tried to make beer out of a kit. Boil water, add packet A, simmer half hour, add packet B, put in carboy and ferment for two weeks. It turned out awful and I never drank it. I was inexperienced and had not a clue what I was looking for. What I learned though was that I really want to have some help and advice from some others and make it right. Would I go and try to make an all grain mash now? Not yet and not without help from a seasoned beer maker.

Is the UJSM a gift? Yes! It is making a smooth corn likker that I can make without any grain mashing experience. If I knew how to mash then I might look at the UJSM as being lacking in flavor or being a little light, however, until that day comes it is the most flavorful corn "vodka" I have ever had.

To finish is that I would much rather spend $20 to make my own liquor that tastes ok, rather than $20 on some Seagrams that tastes harsh.

Not taking a shot, just comparing the two items in the topic.

[arkansas]

Well, looks like things are ready to get back to topic, so I would like to weight in. Punk, I can understand your problems better than you might ever understand. Low yeilds is one thing, but low quaility is another, I have had problems with both when doing all grain mashes. Like dunder said, the cook time is important but I also think that the conversion is almost one in the same with it.

I have been having a little better conversion rates with what Tater told me to expect, about 50% at best compaired to sugar. PH seems to be one of the most important factors, at lest where I am, on how well and how much enzymes I have to use to convert X amount of Y.

Please everyone that has tried all grain brewing, give info. good or bad how things came out. We might put something together here.

[Dan Call]

Well.....Dixie Drifter, in his post about using enzymes only for all grain mashes mentions two things that are important, that I myself messed up on.

1. The grind of the corn. The more you grind, (i.e. the finer) the more you expose for starch dispersion and conversion. Problem is, the finer it is, the more difficult it is to filter and you end up with all manner of shyte baked on the inside of your tank.

2. Boiling for maximum dispersion, boil, boil, boil. Drifter mentions a very clever way to get extended
cooking times without having to stir til your arms fall off. He apparently uses 20L pots that will fit in the oven. Put the oven to 250-275 and you can maintain a slow boil in the pot, check for water.

3. The use of enzymes. The only thing close to this that I've used is "beano" which is an amalayse, Smiley recommends it in the Corn Whiskey book, first edition. I can't really see that it made just an overwhelming difference. This led me to believe I was not cooking will enough to get the starches dispersed in the first place. This is where flaked maize comes in, it's already gelatinized and thus requires no rolling boil. I did have much better yields with this, but still less than I'd like.

Dixie Drifter's posts are under the thread "Random notes on mashing corn with enzymes." It's worth a read....and apparently he's gotten a good fermentation going even as we speak, I'm interested to see his results.

I believe that it can be done so that the yields will not be that far behind sugar washes, not too far.

[Dnderhead]

I just mention cooking because that is my biggest problem. a steam kettle would be nice but----------- I have gotten70- 80% conversion by doing thin mash
but then you have that much more to distill

[theholymackerel]

I've been thinkin' 'bout yer post on and off all day Punkin.

One thing keeps comin' to mind, and that is that ya picked a difficult mash to start with. I learned on the easiest mash possible back in the day, and then expanded from there. Once I knew the basics and I had an idea what was a "normal" conversion rate was I could experiment and know when stuff worked right or not. Early success also helped to keep me motivated.

A really easy mash to learn on that makes an excellent drink is a single malt made from 100% base malt. Get either 2-row or 6-row malted barley, and use that for the entire grain bill. Try 2 lbs (or a bit more) per gallon of mash. So for an 18 litre mash 5 kilos of base malt would be great.

Yer shootin' for the PH sweetspot of 5.1 to 5.5. Yer shootin' for the mash temp sweet spot of about 153 F (67 C). Let the mash go for an hour or so. An ice chest is good to hold temp with. After conversion cool quickly... an immersion chiller is easy to make. Add ale yeast. Ferment on the grain, or off. On the grain will give more flavor.

When the fermentation is done do a strippin' run with a potstill: run fast and collect everythin' (makin' NO cuts) till the abv% drops to 20ish abv.

Run a second time through a potstill slowly. Anywhere from an extremly fast drip to a tiny matchstick sized stream. Collect and discard first 150-200 ml per 5gallons/18 litres of mash. Collect and keep seperate the heads. Yer in the heads as long as the distillate is a bit sweet in smell and taste. Collect body down to 100 - 90 proof. Collect and keep seperate the tails if ya bother.

Take yer body cut and water to 110-120 proof and age with 3 or 4 whole, unground, peppercorns per gallon. Either leave white, or use a bit of lightly toasted oak. Age 100 days.





This will make somethin' that can be truthfully called whiskey, and will surprise ya as to it's mild flavor and light, almost oily mouthfeel. Give a shot of it to someone that likes the commercial harsh taste and watery mouthfeel whiskey with a bite. Watch their eyes as their concept of "whiskey" changes.

[punkin]

Thanks THM and Dan.

I reached the same conclusion today as y'self, that corn was not my best starter (although it holds the most interest for me).
I do have a lot of malt barley, and did do exactly what you just said holly a couplea weeks ago.
All but the 'cool it down quickly' bit

It got infected with vomititus and although i thought i could save it as the vomit smell thinned, i just couldn't and i tipped my first ever mash/wash/beer down the drain.

I do need to master the enzymes however and i have some lovely steam rolled barley that would work just as well for an exaple of what to expect, and a learning experience.

I need to wait till the seed graders ring me to say they have my fine crack corn anyway, so may try a single malt without the malt

At least that way i can learn to drive my enzymes and then progress to using the remaining malt that i have.


I was studying DD post this morning when i was talking to you Dan, and i think you have narrowed down my probs, i think a combination of the grind, the cooking and the temps of the enzymes i'm using are at the root of what troubles me.

I did have much better yields with this, but still less than I'd like.

Could ya just give me a rough idea of what a corn mash should yeild for me per gallon of stripped low wine or single run?
I reckon if i had a target to aim at (wouldn't matter much what the target is) i'd be able to measure my progress. Atm i'm shooting in the dark. I don't really care what i get yield wise as my UJSM is just fine for friends and family, they're perfectly happy, and i'm a beer man.
I'd just like to have a bottle here and there that i could pull out on special occasions and share, just to show off really

Thanks Arkansas, i've got manufacturers spec sheets on my enzymes and have been following the Ph fairly closely along with temps, using citric acid and soda bicarb to adjust.
I agree, if we can weigh in together here, we might be able to do some paving on all grain to make things a little easier for the next gen that comes along in a couplea months

[theholymackerel]

I do have a lot of malt barley, and did do exactly what you just said holy a couplea weeks ago.
All but the 'cool it down quickly' bit

It got infected with vomititus and although i thought i could save it as the vomit smell thinned, i just couldn't and i tipped my first ever mash/wash/beer down the drain.

I wanted to interject here that a mash that will gag a maggot may still yeild an awsome distillate.

Next time ya have an infected mash, no matter how bad it smells, run it anyway. The odds are you'll end up with a wonderful whiskey you can be proud of.

[punkin]

I do have a lot of malt barley, and did do exactly what you just said holy a couplea weeks ago.
All but the 'cool it down quickly' bit

It got infected with vomititus and although i thought i could save it as the vomit smell thinned, i just couldn't and i tipped my first ever mash/wash/beer down the drain.

I wanted to interject here that a mash that will gag a maggot may still yeild an awsome distillate.

Next time ya have an infected mash, no matter how bad it smells, run it anyway. The odds are you'll end up with a wonderful whiskey you can be proud of.

Nah, there's no way i coulda cooked that in my shed mate, even trolleying it down to the yard sink, i was splashing a little on the grass and the neighbours stuck their heads over the fence to see what the stench was, they'd smelled it inside nextdoor:roll:


But i'll cook a mash on Saturday, i have a coil of half inch in the shed, should be a simple matter to put some hose connections on the ends and make a wort chiller that'll clip onto the disconnects for my condensor pump.

I'll do 5 kg steam rolled barley to 20 l water, cooked for a few minutes and try the enzymes on it.
I figure steam rolled means it needs little to no cooking?





ASmellThat'dOutlastReligionPunkin

[Dan Call]

Punkin....I'm not trying to be smart or sarcastic....but.....what's a 'yard sink?"

That must've been some nasty stuff to get your neighor's attention!

[Usge]

2 lbs grain per gallon of water (or more) gives you "glue" after 1 to 2 hrs cooking it. I know cause I've done it. Following these recipes is pointless. After conversion...you'd have 'loose glue". All of the grain mashes I've attempted have converted and fermented. I actually got decent yield out of it. But, I could not get one (flaked rye) clean enough to cook wthout burning (which ruined it). It had so much sediment in it...it left a black spot on the bottom of the pot and smelled like a burnt tire.

Doesn't matter. You just keep adding water as it dissapears.

Even "that' will leave you with a starch glue if you cook corn for over an hour. Adding 20% malt to that will make it loose. But it's still going to be like cream corn glue. It will ferment. But trying to strain it off or clear it is a bitch beyond pale. You can't even get it to "push" through cloth. It just squeezes out the sides.

And of course...the anwer to that (ie...following the recpie) is....don't follow the recipe....use more water.

My Italian friend laughed when I expressed my frustration with this....and said....it's a like learning to make sauce...uh?

[dixiedrifter]

Thats not been my experience using commercial enzymes... the "glue" will liquify over a period of about 3 minutes right before your eyes as soon as you hit it with the alpha-amylase. But, the mash still needs to sit longer for full converion.

If one is using an electric heated still, it will probably be a good idea to upgrade to one of the ultra low density elements (less than 50w per square inch). Thats going to be the next upgrade for my boiler.