Practice mash in the making. + Still questions

[Pita]

Hey there everyone! I have been reading around the forum for quite some time now - great info and you guys are awesome! Well, while I was making brownies with my girlfriend, I decided to whip up a quick sugar wash just to try out. I started with a gallon of water on medium heat and added a little over a pound of sugar. (based on the "tried and true" recipe section). As I was mixing that, I decided to add some blueberries and strawberries that were laying around. It was enough to cover the surface. Then I figured what the heck, and added a tablespoon of agave nector (kind of like honey, but made from cactus). It smelled glorious!

From there, I mixed it around until most of the color was gone from the strawberries, still on med heat. It was at around 150 deg. F. when I stopped. I poured all of the fruit and most of the liquid into a water container, leaving a bit of room at the top. I added in half of a 1/4 cup of bakers yeast, which was pretty much the ratio I found consistent throughout the recipes on this forum. I covered the top with a rubber glove with a couple holes in the fingers (pathetic, I know. But I have heard of it working well for mead and such). I then stuck that bottle in a bucket lined with a blanked and tucked it in well to keep it warm and set it in the garage for a little warmth.

Now, I was by no means making this intending on drinking all of it, or it tasting great, but rather to test out how the whole process works. I definitely plan on making a more thought out product afterwards.

But now to the point; a couple questions!
1) Did I do this correctly - or more importantly - did I mess up horribly anywhere along the line?
2) I read that fruits produce a higher concentration of methanol than a regular sugar wash - Is that something to worry about? I have also heard that to minimize this, you discard the first however many (I forget exactly) liters.
3) I haven't found what to use to test the mash.. what is it called and is it completely necessary? (no objections to using - just curious)
4) I'm planning on using a simple pot still. Is there a preferred diameter for the copper tubing?

Thank you all in advance for any tips/advice, it's much appreciated. I have some pictures that I can post up after I get them on the computer. Wish you guys could smell it, simply awesome!

[Dnderhead]

Basically you made a cheep wine- witch is ok - but if distilled would not have much flavor- but a good start-- most make sugar wash (see sugar wash )and ditill then soak fruit/barres
in it .on the scened part we use two hydrometers wine/beer that test low alcohol and one for spirits or high alcohol ( both can be bout at home brew shop or on line) And stills theres a great variety ,look around the site and read to fiend the one you like, basic- the larger the pipe/tubing the faster
you can distill ,If you make it too small you will be there for ever

[Freedave]

I'll qualify this with 'i'm a newbie here too'. But
You did not say if the mash you concoted has started to perk or not. I am not sure exactly what temp will kill yeast but it's got to be somewhere in the range you pitched at.

What is your prefered spirit? what do you want to make? this will help decide what kind of still. I just finished a 2" dia bokabob reflux still using a half barrel boiler and propane heat. have only done one cleaning run but i'm very happy so far. i do plan to start out with vodka, but as i'm told if i just take out the packing and run it right i can make anything.

but also a lot of people with a pot still just run thier vodka through two or three times and it works great. maybe a horse a piece.

good luck, keep us posted.

[Pita]

I'll qualify this with 'i'm a newbie here too'. But
You did not say if the mash you concoted has started to perk or not. I am not sure exactly what temp will kill yeast but it's got to be somewhere in the range you pitched at.

What is your prefered spirit? what do you want to make? this will help decide what kind of still. I just finished a 2" dia bokabob reflux still using a half barrel boiler and propane heat. have only done one cleaning run but i'm very happy so far. i do plan to start out with vodka, but as i'm told if i just take out the packing and run it right i can make anything.

but also a lot of people with a pot still just run thier vodka through two or three times and it works great. maybe a horse a piece.

good luck, keep us posted.

My concoction started to do its job right away. It inflated the fingers, and is now smelling like a yeasty-bread. I love all kinds of spirits and I will defiantly be experimenting with all different types. I am hoping on sticking with a pot still for a bit seeing as I don't have a welder, exc. I think I can get away with a pot still construction without using one. Vodka and Tequila are a few of my favorites. Gin is great in pepsi max - perfect compliment. However, I will DEFINITELY not be trying to make gin as it has a lot of ingredients.

When will I know when to stop fermentation? When it is done, is it "technically" drinkable as it is? Is there anything special to do to get rid of all the chunks and yeast or stop the fermentation process? The yeast is still hard at work, so I guess it was not too hot.

Thank you both for responding so quickly!

[Pita]

also, should I be shaking it or anything - or just leave the yeast at the top?

[Hawke]

also, should I be shaking it or anything - or just leave the yeast at the top?

Some stir, most don't.
It would be drinkable as a wine. Running it once or twice through a potstill would make a brandy.

You want the ferment to finish out. Your glove will go limp when it's done.

Use a racking cane to transfer the wash into another container, let set for a day or two and most of the solids will settle out. Then do a careful racking and you can leave most of the sediment out. If you don't have a racking cane, you can pour it through cheesecloth to get rid of most of the solids.

I would also suggest doing some more research, both here and on the parent site.

[Pita]

Well, it just finished. It smells pretty nifty. It looks a lot like a strongly made strawberry-kiwi crystal light, smells like nothing I have ever smelled (not that it is bad, it smells alot like before fermentation, I just haven't smelled anything like it), but with that tone of alcohol. I can't say if I like it or not. The alcohol taste hits at the back of the mouth. Kinda scared to drink it to tell you the truth.

Can that flour paste be used for all joints on a still?

[Pita]

I decided to try it out on an ice-water still since I had all of the stuff lying around right there; it was horrible! I don't know what it was about the wine, but it made the whole area reek!! I'm definitely not making that mash, EVER again. I stopped midway through. What I had collected did smell like alcohol, though. I guess I will try my hand at a sugar wash instead.

[Barney Fife]

Most washes taste awful. Distill it like you're supposed to, and judge it then.

[Nik Onay]

I've made wine quite a few times and there's a reason why you let it age for a year or two. I made a concord grape wine a few years ago and left the seeds and stems in, it was the most tannic thing I had ever tasted. Even after letting it age for over a year it was still too tannic, I distilled it and it was great. Tasted just like grapes. I'd go ahead and distill it and see what happens.

[Tater]

You will find that most fruit washes smell good as well as most grains.Like wine or beer as that for most part is what they are.Taste before fermenting and after is usually the absence of sugar and addition of alcohol Difference is in distilling final taste of product doesn't always depend on taste of wash/mash.In some washes/ mashes that is a good thing.

[Pita]

The smell while distilling was so bad that it was through the whole house and made me sick. What I did collect before stopping did smell like a fruity alcohol; strikingly like Smirnoff Watermelon Vodka. I only got into the heads. It seems like I would actually have a descent end result, but I can NOT do that in the house again. It made me so nauseous. Maybe the seal was horrible, I don't know.

On a happier note, I did find a 12 quart stock pot with a descent and clamp-able lip for 16 bucks! Perfect width, and nice and tall. If I flip the lid it curves up in the middle, and the lip has the edge rolled over so it'll hold the clips really well. I can't wait to make it into a still. I'm not sure about whether to make it into a pot or reflux still. I was leaning twords a pot still with a thumper. I have nothing for welding/soldering, so that is why I am leaning towards a pot still- using corks instead of welds. I was thinking 3/8 or 1/2in. 3/8 would be easier for bending I would think. Am I going to be needing any bending equipment or can I wing it?

Thanks for all of the help guys!

[showrguy]

Pita,
love how you describe your experiences so far, lots of detial, verrryyyyyy funny to read, especially the part about how you can "NOT" do that in the house again..
good luck and be safe.

[tracker0945]

On a happier note, I did find a 12 quart stock pot with a descent and clamp-able lip for 16 bucks! Perfect width, and nice and tall. If I flip the lid it curves up in the middle, and the lip has the edge rolled over so it'll hold the clips really well. I can't wait to make it into a still. I'm not sure about whether to make it into a pot or reflux still. I was leaning twords a pot still with a thumper. I have nothing for welding/soldering, so that is why I am leaning towards a pot still- using corks instead of welds. I was thinking 3/8 or 1/2in. 3/8 would be easier for bending I would think. Am I going to be needing any bending equipment or can I wing it?

Thanks for all of the help guys!

I believe that as a general rule, the larger diameter the pipe, the slower the vapour speed, the smoother the product and the easier it is to condense it.
I would always go larger than smaller.
Thumpers may make a difference, no experience in this field.
Cheers.

[Pita]

Well guys, money that was supposed to make itself to me is yet to show, so I've yet to make me a still I did make myself a sugar wash last night though. I don't know how well it will work. I basically took 3 gallons of water, 4lbs of sugar (someone stole a lb from me ) heated it up slightly to help dissolve the sugar, cracked open a vitamin C into it, tbs of agave nector and a splash of some lemonade. After it cooled a bit I tossed in 2 packets of red star active fast rising bakers yeast. There would have been a 3rd...but again, someone stole. It started bubbling up and invading the whole thing really quick. It looks like it has done a lot of its job already. BTW, yeast smells very strongly like butt-crack-and-cheese, how do I go about getting that nasty smell out after fermentation? Anywho, I am excited to see how this one turns out!

I went to farm and fleet today...it's my new favorite store. 10lb bags of cracked corn for under 10 bucks...5 gallon jugs of molasses for I think it was $8. They even have compression fittings, torches and copper for cheapest that I've seen! Also, they have heating elements there..for water heaters. They range from the low 1ks to 3k watts. Is that something I can use in the future? (http://farmandfleet.com/catalog/product ... =050401004)

I'm still back and forth with what kind of still I want to make. Maybe a reflux I can convert to a pot - If I actually have the money to spend on everything. I still have to finish the incubator for my snakes future clutch before I get to play with this.

[tracker0945]

A pot still is the cheapest to make, add a reflux column when you have more cash.
The only thing to remember is that you will use the same boiler for both so make sure you buy the biggest and best you can afford.
Also the column connection will be the same.
Cheers.

[Pita]

A pot still is the cheapest to make, add a reflux column when you have more cash.
The only thing to remember is that you will use the same boiler for both so make sure you buy the biggest and best you can afford.
Also the column connection will be the same.
Cheers.

You're right, pot stills are definitely cheaper. I can't afford to build a huge reflux out of 2" tubing with the prices at what I hear they are (med school, mmm ). I was thinking of my column for the pot to be a 1", T-ing off into a 1/2 and reducing to a 3/8, bending, and going through a liebig. I drew it out, but no scanner handy. I'm hoping to use a water heater element for the pot still with the 21Q stock pot that I got. It's not the greatest quality ever, but it's my first and certainly not last.

I don't even think any stores here carry 2" copper tubing. I'll have to look at the HD again. When I get to a reflux still I want to use a keg with an electric heat source. I'm going to be in an apartment so I can't do propane.

What size should the in and out tubes for the liebig be? I know it depends on what hose you have going to it, but what is most common? Anything too small?

Thanks for the tips.

Pita

[Hawke]

With a 20qt I would go 1 1/2" into 1/2" use about 3 feet of 1/2" inside 3/4" for the liebeg. If they have them, use 3/4x1/2x1/2 T's to build the condenser. If not, use 3/4x1/2x3/4 T's with a 3/4x1/2 reducer on each end. Add a 1/2" union and 45* bend at the top of the Liebeg and you will be able to position it properly.

[Pita]

With a 20qt I would go 1 1/2" into 1/2" use about 3 feet of 1/2" inside 3/4" for the liebeg. If they have them, use 3/4x1/2x1/2 T's to build the condenser. If not, use 3/4x1/2x3/4 T's with a 3/4x1/2 reducer on each end. Add a 1/2" union and 45* bend at the top of the Liebeg and you will be able to position it properly.

They have the 3/4x1/2x1/2 T's. I'm not quite sure how to construct the liebig. The main part I have an idea of, I know how it works, it is just that I would think you could construct the sleeve with the reducing T's and 3/4 tubing and slide it on over the 1/2 and solder. At least with these T's, that is not possible, since all of them (at the one store) have stops. So then would you have to find some way to solder in the 1/2" inside the receptor for the 3/4" sleeve? Do some come without the stop? That's where I am stuck in my design. Thanks a lot for the dimension suggestions!

The crappy part is any tubes I get that aren't 3/8" or 1/2" have to be bought in 10' lengths. So 2" is $95 US, I believe 1 1/2" X10' is $58 US. Which is ridiculous seeing as I only want a third of the full length! If I did get 1 1/2" tubing, could I use it to make a reflux in the future (or while Im at it!)? I forgot who has that awesome multi-function still.. I believe the column was 1 1/2" with some smaller types. Anywho, I'm sure everyone knows the one I am talking about.

Sorry for any incoherence in this post. I've had a really long day; I am unbelievably tired!

**Update: the sugar wash smells deliciously alcoholic.

Pita

[Hawke]

Use a file, drill or moto-tool to grind out the stops. slide the 1/2" inside the 3/4" then slide the reducing T's over each end. Use a 45* ell and a union between the liebeg and column.

You can use 1 1/2" to make a Bokakob 'mini' or a VM for that matter.

[Dnderhead]

adding to hawkes Post Id say use coarse File or stone fine will plug

[Pita]

Use a file, drill or moto-tool to grind out the stops. slide the 1/2" inside the 3/4" then slide the reducing T's over each end. Use a 45* ell and a union between the liebeg and column.

You can use 1 1/2" to make a Bokakob 'mini' or a VM for that matter.

Wow, I really should have thought of that. I was waaay too tired.
For the 1 1/2 Bokabob "mini", what size should I use for the condenser? I would imagine pretty small to pull off a double helix in there.

My friends mom is already asking me for some finished product when I'm done XD

I finally found a hobby that is impossible to get bored of!

[Hawke]

Doing a double coil for the 1 1/2" column does take some patience. 1/4" tubing will need to be salted to make that tight of a coil.

[Pita]

Doing a double coil for the 1 1/2" column does take some patience. 1/4" tubing will need to be salted to make that tight of a coil.

hmm...would I need a mandrel to bend that? Am I better off with a cold finger? Or a coil/coldfinger hybrid?

[Dnderhead]

do you really need a double coil in a 1 1/2 ? over kill ?

[Hawke]

The single coil/cold finger hybrid would be more than enough to knock down what the column can push. You would need to wind it around a mandrel no more than about 7/8" diameter. (3/4 hard copper is about the right size) To go that tight you will need to fill the tubing with salt to keep it from collapsing. Once it's finished, gentle twisting, back and forth, will loosen the salt enough to get it cleaned out.

[HookLine]

The single coil/cold finger hybrid would be more than enough to knock down what the column can push. You would need to wind it around a mandrel no more than about 7/8" diameter. (3/4 hard copper is about the right size)

Agree with that, a double coil is overkill for a 1.5" column. (Also, you might get away with using a 1" mandrel.)

To go that tight you will need to fill the tubing with salt to keep it from collapsing.

It is possible to wind on a 16 mm (5/8") mandrel without salt, though it takes some practice.

[Pita]

So, would I be able to do a single coil by bending 1/4" tubing around a 3/4" pipe? Any specific reason that you should use salt instead of anything else? Hopefully I don't need any expensive equipment as I am a poor med student! I should really set up my scanner so I can post up some concept sketches I have done. I think my friend is going to lend a hand with the soldering, or at least the equipment. I wish I had enough saved up for everything right now..... I have expensive hobbies; at least this one will actually pay for itself - and very fast.

Thanks for all of the fast responses, you guys are great. I get 4 responses the same day as my post - incredibly awesome.
Pita

(sugar wash still going strong)

[Rudi]

at least this one will actually pay for itself - and very fast.
)

Yeah good luck with that

[Hawke]

Use salt instead of sand. It will pack in pretty tight after it's coiled. Salt will dissolve when you put water to it. (as opposed to using sand)
I have done a coil around a 1" without filling it. You need the right tubing though. With the price of copper going up so much, companies are starting to produce thinner walled tubing that collapses a lot easier.