First pot still... Comments please!

[phanmo]

I put this together last week and ran my first wash through last night (jerusalem artichoke or sunchokes , if anyone's interested). For a couple of reasons I wanted to avoid soldering. The lyne arm is attached to the lid of the pressure cooker by two male/female brass connectors, one on the inside, one on the ouside and the seal is made by a copper washer on each side. I cranked the connectors until the washers were squashed then tested the seal with dishwashing detergent while distilling water. No leaks. The pressure cooker is stainless and holds 10l. I used 10ml copper tubing throughout. I think my condensor is too big, but now I know.... (btw the crap on the lid is dried detergent that I used to test for leaks)

[BW Redneck]

Looks like what you got is pretty good, although the thermometer placement might throw it off a bit. Eventually, you might want to scale up from a little 10L pot to something around 20-25L, or up to a beer keg if ya really get into it.

[HookLine]

What is that you used to seal up the connection between the brass fitting on the end of the copper pipe, and the boiler?

And make sure the coils on your condenser always slope downwards, to prevent condensate pooling and blocking vapour flow, which is a problem.

Otherwise, looks fine, and demonstrates just how minimal the gear needed for a working pot still can be.

[theholymackerel]

Phanmo, I removed yer first 3 oversized pictures to stop the sidescrollin' problem.

Fell free to repost small versions of em.







I wish ya luck.

[phanmo]

The coils are all sloping downwards... I ended up removing one turn because I didn't think they were angled enough. I sealed the fittings on the lid of the boiler by using two copper washers(one on each side) and cranking the fittings together enough to squash the copper. I tested the seal with dish detergent and couldn't find any leaks, but to be safe I smeared on a bit of silicone on the outside. I'm using a gas stove so I just felt a little better knowing it wouldn't leak. Here are some resized pics.... I forgot that not everyone's on the same size monitor:

[GingerBreadMan]

Nice job. It's a great set of pics for someone that wants to go solder free.

Is the 10mm copper tubing thin or thick walled? (what's the inside diameter). The only thing I would keep in mind is the amount of heat you put in the boiler. If the output is sputtering and making a lot of noise, you might be running it too hard. My gut feeling says if you run the stove on maximum you'll exceed the capacity of the copper tubing, only going to a wider tube will solve that.

[phanmo]

Regarding the thermometer... Yeah, actually it's completely useless where it is. Well, not completely, but it was reading 99° celsius when I started getting the first drops. I'm going to use it as more of a general idea of when to turn on the condensor water rather than a strict guideline.
The tubing is 10mm inside diameter, 12mm outside. I ran it with the burner pretty low because I only put in about 1.8l of wash. Next time I'm going to do more and run it at a higher setting, but if I start getting sputtering I'll just run it lower. As it was I was getting steady cold drops with intermittent heavier streams. Next time I'm going to build a gin still with a bit more capacity but at the moment I have space considerations.

[paps]

Thanks phanmo for the report, I will try the chokes and run it through my reflux column. Sent the Mrs out to buy some at the local international market but they haven’t come in yet in my area. BTW your rig looks great and it works…..’simple is as simple does’. I am a tinker and a builder, enjoy the process of making stuff, most of the time OVREKILL.
http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc26 ... n_Spirits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Thank again and welcome to the fun

[goinbroke2]

What are you using to seal between the lid and the pot?

Excellent, I have a 20L or so big aluminum pressure cooker I was thinking of doing the same thing.

[phanmo]

I'm not using anything between the lid and the pot. It's a Moulinex pressure cooker; it's designed to seal metal to metal. Almost all the pressure cookers I've seen have rubber/silicone seals, but this is a much heavier-duty design. I've been here in France for about two years now and I still can't get over all the pressure cookers here!! You can get 'em second-hand for a couple of bucks(even in stainless!). We had 4 of them lying around the house so I just grabbed the biggest one in stainless.

[goinbroke2]

Change of plans #23!
Ok, basically I'm going to copy your still. However I have a question. You have a coupling between the still and the condensor, I think it's a great idea and I'd like to do the same. But it looks like a brass fitting which is supposedly bad (has lead in it).
So the question is; Is that connector brass or copper (and how do you tell the difference) and also, what if the connector was closer to the still and pointing up so any lead leached out would go back to the pot instead of travelling further down the line like yours? Would this be acceptable?

[Hawke]

Although it does require soldering, you can get a copper pipe union. It has a brass clamping nut, but the seal is copper to copper.

[goinbroke2]

Thanks, I'll have to ask for that at home depot. I definately want to be able to disassemble it, but don't want anything that can possibly go wrong/be bad.

[phanmo]

Although some brass has minimal amounts of lead used in its manufacture in some countries (the US is one), it's only present on the surface and can be cleaned using a hydrogen peroxide/vinegar solution. There are bunch of threads regarding it; just do a search for "cleaning brass". Here in France it's illegal to use any lead at all in the manufacturing of fitting for water pipes. I still cleaned the fittings before I put them on but more to remove any residual surface grease and general crud.
I wanted to be able to break down the still into the most easily manageable parts, which is why I put the fitting just before the condensor. Broken down, it's the boiler, the Lyne arm, and the condensor fixed in the bucket.
If you want to avoid all brass, and don't want to do any soldering, you're going to have a tough time fixing the Lyne arm to the boiler lid. I used a brass tank connector with copper washers to keep it sealed. Even if you're going to solder, copper to stainless steel is pretty difficult. If you're using an aluminum boiler, I've heard that soldering copper to aluminum doesn't give a good join, but I'm not certain about that.

[phanmo]

Here some condensor measurements:

coil height(output spout to start of first coil): 23 cm
diameter: 18cm
It has 5 complete coils and a bit extra because the spout is at 45° from the top.
It cools to room temperature with the faucet turned on as low as I can get. The water enters the bucket at the bottom and flows out through the top.

I bought a 30m coil of copper tubing and a spring-style tube bender. Because the tubing was already coiled, all I had to do was tighten the coils bit by bit 'til I got to the diameter I wanted. It's a lot easier than with a length of straight tubing.

[phanmo]

Third post's the charm!
I did my second run the night before last. I started off with about 6l of Jerusalem artichoke/sugar wash(sugar 'cause I didn't have enough sunchokes at the house). Ran through once, ended up with about 500ml of 65%vol and another 500ml of 50%. I cut the 65% with enough water to get 45%vol and bottled it. The 50% had a lot more flavour to it(not disgusting but not great either) so I'm gonna try aging it, half with oak chips, half with charred oak chips. I figure that if it doesn't get better I'll just chuck it in the boiler next time. Next time I'm going to do 2 runs, then combine them and run them through a second time to see how high a % I can get, and how close I can get to a neutral spirit.
I'm looking forward to warmer weather because we have 2 pear trees, 2 cherry trees, a peach tree and loads of rasberries!

[phanmo]

For a little update.... I did a second run of topinambours, two stills worth to get a low wine, then combined them and ran 'em through again. I ended up with about 2L of 80% that I cut to 40% then charcoal filtered. The result was a pretty decent vodka with a tiny bit of vegetable/gin flavout to it. Almost all of it disappeared pretty quickly at a friend's housewarming party. Most people here in France are pretty familiar with eau-de-vie from their grandparents but it's usually pretty rough stuff. Everyone was pretty impressed with the vodka.
I'm dropping the topinambours now because I'm sick of the smell when you cook them; just ran through my first batch of apple brandy and damn it's good!!!! I'm aging 1/3 on toasted oak, 1/3 on toasted pear, and keeping 1/3 as is to see how it is in a couple of weeks.

[Pita]

Hey man, great still. I have a question about the connectors that you have. I went to home depot and there was only one kind of connector that was solderless, the "Shark Bite" connectors that are only available from 1/2" and up. What kind of connectors are those? They look soldered; am I right?

[phanmo]

They're compression fittings; at least that's what they're called in England (I'm pretty sure it's the same in Canada and the US). Basically you undo one end, slide it onto the tubing and then screw it back together and crank it really tight. The tubing gets squished together with the fitting permanently; hence the "compression" name. No soldering.
Here's a site I found through Google: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/compress.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I know you can get them anywhere in the UK and Europe but having never done any plumbing stuff in North America(even though I'm Canadian) I dunno if they're readily available. I'm sure if you ask they'll be able to get them at Home Depot, even if they don't stock them all the time.
Good luck man, and post some pics when you put it all together!!

[Pita]

They're compression fittings; at least that's what they're called in England (I'm pretty sure it's the same in Canada and the US). Basically you undo one end, slide it onto the tubing and then screw it back together and crank it really tight. The tubing gets squished together with the fitting permanently; hence the "compression" name. No soldering.
Here's a site I found through Google: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/compress.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow I know you can get them anywhere in the UK and Europe but having never done any plumbing stuff in North America(even though I'm Canadian) I dunno if they're readily available. I'm sure if you ask they'll be able to get them at Home Depot, even if they don't stock them all the time.
Good luck man, and post some pics when you put it all together!!

You're a life saver, man! Thanks so much! Those fittings sound a lot like these Shark Bites, only with them you slide the pipe in and its secure, but you can detach it with a special key. Super expensive though. I'll be sure to get pictures up as soon as I finish my still!

[StabbyJoe]

Nice. Really nice.

That's more or less exactly what I'm looking at making... Considering a reflux because supposedly you get less of a 'rocket fuel' / rubbing alcohol type outcome (how decent a neutral spirit can you get off a pot? not as good as a reflux... but I'm probably going to produce rum or whisky and the like, mostly... but my friends love vodka) and where could the thermometer be better placed in the lid? And wasn't it expensive buying a full 30m of copper tubing? (how much approx do you think you used?

Basically I'm cheap as crap, as I have expensive hobbies... the home distillation one looks expensive to start (to me at least) and my lock picking hobby keeps me wanting more and more picks...

So I'm wanting to know how much of the tubing you used? (I'll buy more than that, just in case... but yeah)
How much did your setup cost you, at a guess?
Is it ok to use a pressure cooker with one of those giant rubber seals?
is it better to have the copper pipe go right up into a 90 degree bend out of the cooker, then another 90 degree bend down into the condenser?
And lastly... I know copper is best because it naturally absorbs impurities... but I can get a 25L SS still for $275 NZ ($200 US)... would i save much making my own?


Hooray for all this being legal in NZ!
Still think it should be everywhere else though... if dumb people don't kill themselves drinking methanol they'll do it doing something else...

[tracker0945]

Hold on there StabbyJoe, have you really read enough and thought this thing through sufficiently yet?
You mention wanting to make Rum, Whisky and Vodka.
Do you plan on making sugar washes and then flavouring your product or are you looking at cooking grain mashes for whisky or molasses for Rum and then how about the Vodka.
You want a Pot Still for flavoured spirits but for a clean neutral Vodka spirit of a high %abv you would be looking at a reflux still. A bit difficult to do both with the one still. It can be done but takes a bit of practice to get it right.
Why not have a read of all the stickies at the top of the Novice Distillers section as a starting point, decide what you want to make then examine all your possibilities.
It takes some time but it will be time well spent.
Slow down and smell the daisies for a bit.
Cheers.

[phanmo]

Pita: Those Shark Bites sound about the same, as long as there are no plastic bits in the vapour flow. If I were you I'd try and find compression fittings, if only to save a bit of coin; each fitting cost me about 2 euros( maybe three bucks US) so since I used four in total, it only cost about $12 US plus a few extra bits for attaching to the lid of the pressure cooker.

StabbyJoe: I have to agree with tracker0945; first figure out what you want to make and then build what you need to make it. Read http://homedistiller.org;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow it helped me a lot before I came to the forum.
Regarding your questions.....

1. I used most of the roll of tubing; a lot more than you think goes into a serpentine; and it take a bit to get the hang of bending without kinking the tubing.
2. I figure that the whole setup cost me about 45 euros (about $70 US) including the pipebender(just one of the springy ones). Of course I already had the most expensive part, the pressure cooker(the 30m roll of copper tubing cost about 30 euros or thereabouts).
3. My pressure cooker seals metal to metal; there's a lot of debate on this forum about seals, the general consensus is to use flour paste, but a teflon seal seems to be ok too(but expensive). Food grade high-temp silicone seems to be acceptable to some, anathema to others; ultimately it's your choice.
I use flour paste around where the lyne arm comes out of the lid, I don't think I need it but I use a open flame gas burner so I prefer being safe.
4. I used a curved lyne arm because its easier and more traditional around here(the Poitou-Charentes region of France). Check out the parent site Designs & Plans section.
5. Apparently if there's no copper in the still you can get a rotten egg (hydrogen sulfide) smell to yer booze. I've never experienced it 'cause I have copper in mine.*
6. I don't even use the thermometer anymore, I stick a cork in the hole. I just check the lyne arm periodically to see where the vapour is(where it's too hot to touch). When it gets to the midpoint I turn the water on. For making cuts I use taste and smell, it's not difficult.

If you want to make vodka build a reflux still. That being said, I can get a pretty neutral tasting product from my pot still if I try. I usually do fruit brandies so I want loads of flavour but if you make stricter cuts you can eliminate a lot. I recommend doing a couple of stripping runs then combing them and running them through again. I ferment in 20L batches so I strip it all down to about 20%ABV before running it through all together. I do all my cuts on the second run, which comes out at about 75 to 80% ABV.
Anyways, good luck and happy shining!!!

[StabbyJoe]

hmm.. rather than me not knowing reflux for neutral, pot for flavor, it's more that I want both and for that reason have a lot of deciding to do, as I may have to give up hope of one or the other. Trying to decide if I should go reflux and if I ever want something with flav, add it to the final distillate or go pot and have to try hard and not quite get there for a neutral spirit lol.

It seems I've got everything I need to know to make my own still and do my first run... but I do need to decide what I want first... I hear my girlfriend's friend's dad does a bit of this sort of stuff, so maybe I'll drop him an email...

I'll shut up now lol

[Dnderhead]

Make reflux with two part column, so you can take out part to"shorten " for pot

[StabbyJoe]

thanks for the idea... might use that. Someone also said that with a reflux, you can change the amount of reflux back down to nearly zero (got this info elsewhere) and it makes a good pot still... I'm not keen on making a home made reflux.... seems too much time and energy but I could get one for $300NZ.. would that give decent results? (and does it actually work like that?)

[Rocketman]

Looks similar to my first pot still and it looks good. The only real problem that I had with the pressure cooker was that after using it on 5 runs, the sealing rubber swelled making it almost impossible to fit the lid on. Do you have a problem with the alcohol swelling up your seal?

[HookLine]

Do you have a problem with the alcohol swelling up your seal?

Err, umm, ahh...

Nah, I'm not touching that one.

Anybody else want to have a go?

[tracker0945]

Not me bloke. Big Brother may be watching

[Tater]

Looks similar to my first pot still and it looks good. The only real problem that I had with the pressure cooker was that after using it on 5 runs, the sealing rubber swelled making it almost impossible to fit the lid on. Do you have a problem with the alcohol swelling up your seal?

Dont think you would find many on this forum who would use a plastic or rubber seal in their still and fewer who would drink your product knowing you had it in it.Read our rules plastic/rubber topic is covered there as well as some sticky s.