Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[Dnderhead]

another reason that some recipes call for so much yeast ,is to help prevent infections ,yeast gits a good start before anything else can

[wineo]

Using quite a bit of yeast is the key to sucess when fermenting plain sugar like this recipe.Its my understanding that 1118 is a killer strain of yeast,and if mixed with other strains,it will kill them,so you might not want to mix it.With bakers yeast,you would want to use the correct amount,or it will be real slow.If your doing alot of this recipe,like I do,dont skimp on the yeast.I have got the best results from using Crosby+Bakers superstart distillers yeast.It is a little cleaner than the bakers yeast,and it clears faster,and ferments faster also.I make it 26 gallons at a time in a 30 gallon rubbermaid can.
I use a cup of distillers yeast.When using the red star,or the SAF,I use a pound of the stuff.{4 cups}It only cost 2.12 a pound,and always does the job,but it takes alot longer to clear.The degassing helps a bunch.The epsom substitution wont matter.What makes this recipe so clean,is that theres nothing added to it,to cause off flavors,as long as it ferments healthily.Get some distillers yeast.You wont be sorry.Its $ 8.00 a pound,but that will do 4 large batches for 2 bucks a batch.
You can also reuse it over and over.The bakers yeast wont let you do that without adding more.

[EuroStiller]

I have seen distillers yeast for sale in bulk but the label says you need nutrients and what not. Judging by what your saying, I'm guessing that the additives in the standard recipe are enough? The DAP, Citric acid, etc., So your saying is use somthing like this http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/4,10042.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ?

Thanks in Advance

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[wineo]

Thats the stuff!Just follow my recipe.As long as you keep the SG low enough to avoid osmotic stress,It will work just fine.
Just remember,the more crap you add to a recipe,the more that crap will cause flavors.Im going to try to set up and run this week.I have 10 gallons of WPOSW thats been setting for months and needs to be ran.After that run,I will have 12 gallons of 45% WPOSW to run a 2nd time.Ive already made some hard cuts on it,so it will be mostly keepers.
Ive got 10LBS of elderberrys in the freezer{from 1 plant}and 25LBS of white seeded grapes.I will make wine out of the grapes.I still have 12 gallons of elderberry wine in carboys from last years berrys.I dont need anymore elderberry.I will save them for flu season.

[casino_boy]

I got some White Labs calafornia ale yeast will this work ?
Love your post thanks

casino_boy

[EuroStiller]

Thanks a billion for the info Wineo!! You know I have theat recipe comitted to memory! Gonna order a pound of distillers yeast tonight!

My Elderberries that I planted in the front of my house were only good for flowers this year. Which is still a good thing because I do make a liqueur from that and I use it for sinus congestion. The 3 Elders I have in my yard are already netted to keep the birds out. My great aunt told me an interesting story recently. I guess that the people in our village who could not grow enough grapes way back when, would harvest sambucca berries and add the juice to the must, to "stretch" out the fermenting wine. And to think, it was considered low-brow practice!

Amazing how time sorts things

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[wineo]

Elderberrys and concords make really good wine together.I know where there are lots of elderberrys around here,but found 1 real special plant near by.I bet that plant had 50 pounds on it this year.Its about 20 ft tall,and 20 ft wide.Shes a monster.
That white labs yeast will work,but keep the starting SG at 1060 or below.Just make a big starter with it first,and let it work for 48 hours to build up the cell count.

[EuroStiller]

Be careful when you go pick all those berries! My God, I would be in 7th heaven! Odd to see trees that big in the states. I wonder if it is a S. Nigra or S. Canadesis. At any rate, enjoy!!!! I ordered the distillers yeast and it will be here by this weekend. Then, hopefully on Saturday, we can start the quadruple batch!! Fiancé picked up the sugar today. Made me feel like a lazy ass on my last day off cuz all I did was get the propane tanks filled and wash the BOP!

You said something about re-using the yeast. I think I know where you are going with that, but just in case would ya mind bringing the "class back into session" for a tutorial?

Thanks again!

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[onreybear]

I am a TRUE NOVICE... waiting on reading material etc... it was suggested that I take an already produced WINE and distillate do you know or can recommend a recipe or link for this.. using2.5L Alembics/// Thanks in ADVANCE
*)o(*

[wineo]

Heres a link to easy recipe.Thanks Jack Keller
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques65.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I was talking about reusing the distillers yeast.It does well,just save whats on the bottom,pour it in a gallon jug,add some PHd water,and add some sugar.When the starter gets done,drain most of the liquid,and start it again.You will have one hell of a starter.Ive reused it 3-4 times on sugarwashs and rum.Just stay under 1080SG for best results.That elderberry plant has green stems and really dark juice.There are lots of red stem ones around,but this one has darker juice.I bet its a real old plant.

[EuroStiller]

Onreybear,
What can I say but Welcome! I have a 13 Liter alembic my grandfather brought to America from Italy. This year marks it's 50th birthday. Apart from a few minor repairs, it is used ALOT, even more so during winemaking season to produce Grappa. I recently got a small 5 Gallon (almost 19 Liters) Reflux still. Of course, you cannot put that much in there at a time, but using the alembic for the first pass and the reflux for subsequent passes has yielded me a neutral spirit between 91- 93 % abv. One happy camper!!

Wineo,
That’s what I was thinking, just like a sourdough starter for bread! You save a piece of dough from the previous batch and keep "feeding" it with flour, water and pinch of sugar until you bake again. I was not sure. Ya think I really need to do some more reading about sugar washes I feel stupid sometimes asking simple questions.

As for your Elderberry tree. Sounds like you have one fine example of whatever species. It is hard to tell sometimes. It is probably S. canadesis or American Elderberry, judging by what you have said about the size and geographic location. Even though they grow like mad! I only had 3 years of Biology at school; most of it was related to the body. On annual trips back to Italy we would go and "fa la raccolta", hike and pick the medicinal and non- medicinal herbs, plans, etc., to make liqueurs and flavor grappa. September is right around the corner, so we both will be picking Sambuco berries very soon!

Thanks again for the help!

EuroStiller- The Doctor

[wineo]

You better start lookin now,because there already getting close to being done down here.You dont want to miss the boat!

[EuroStiller]

W

The weather was odd this year and the berries came up slowly. I lost alot of the flowers, I use those too. The trees are netted now so I'm hoping soon! Gotta go, back to work!

ES- The Doctor

[JohnnyFox]

Wineo -

Awesome recipe - I'm trying to dial it in for my situation; I believe my differences from your situation are predominantly water and ambient temperature.

I have very good well water - 7.5 pH, with Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) ranging from 200-400 ppm, depending on the season. The solids are almost completely lime; NO iron. For my first run of WPOSW, the TDS was ~300 ppm. So I would characterize my water as being 'hard'.
Temperature range of the wash is 75-79*f during fermentation.
Is used nutrients instead of DAP, and 1/4 cup dry distiller's yeast.

I pitched dry yeast at 85*f, and got a dog head within 5 mins - a nearly violent reaction. I stirred after 15 mins, and things slowed WAY down. For 9 days I had about 1 bubble per second. At 3 weeks now I'm still getting a bubble about every 5 seconds. There never were more dog heads, or any collection of surface action. The fermentation is running much more slowly than I would have anticipated. The wash is a homogenous milky, somewhat yellow and opaque. I have not measured gravity yet. Starting gravity was 1.082 - slightly above recommended.

For the next run I think I will skip the gypsum, as I believe my water is already hard enough.

QUESTIONS -

1) At what temp do you suggest adding the citric acid? At some different temps, it breaks down into various other acids/ions, and the pH adjusting ability varies.

2) What pH are we shooting for? I have read that 4.2 is good. Is that for the starting water pH, or the final pH of the wash prior to fermentation?

3) What is the optimal temp and range during fermentation? This may be difficult to answer, I understand it depends on the yeast used - but could you offer a rule of thumb for 'distiller's yeast'?

Thanks in advance - love your work, the passion shows....

JF

[wineo]

First of all,thanks for the compliment.It sounds like your water is plenty hard,so skip the gypsum.I add the acid to a cooled down wash.I usually add everything else to the hot sugar water mix,and add cool water to cool it down before adding acid,and yeast.I wouldnt pinch your yeast any warmer than 80f for best results,and try to keep the sg lower than 1080.At 1060SG,it works real good.As far as PH goes,anywhere between 5.0-6.0 is good.Yours was a little low.
I think that between the high pinching temp,and the 1082SG,your yeast got itsself too wound up,and stressed out,making it finish slow.
One thing about this recipe,its very forgiving,and will finish good with time.You can always add a little more yeast to help it out.
Just make sure to clear it good before running it.Its much cleaner that way.

[darel]

Is it necessary to stir the wash at anytime during the fermentation? I am using 1/2 cup redstar backers yeast with an SG of 1.079. Would it be different if I was using distillers yeast? Thanks again for this great recipe.

[wineo]

I usually stir mine in the first 24 hours to mix up everything,but its not really required.

[Dnderhead]

most do not , it gives a chance of contamination most aerate before pitching yeast, then leave undisturbed after until finished
then shaking/stirring can release co2 and helps clear wash.

[EuroStiller]

I started aerating Wineo wash with my big wooden spoon in the beginning, but now I just use the paint mixer/ drill and really give a good spin before I add my yeast. But then again, I am now culturing the yeast and pitching it in a liquid state. I have had no problem with clarity. When making the small batches, in the buckets, after fermentation was done I would rack to a new bucket and set it in the coolest part of my basement, which is about 60F. After a week you could see the bottom of the pail and the little bit of new sediment that had fermented. Easily siphoned off. It always either looked like apple juice or white grape juice.

This most recent batch of WPOSW is my first attempt not only using distillers yeast, but making a quadruple batch at once. All I have to say is Holy Crap. No sooner did that yeast hit that sugar syrup did we have lift off! It is a good thing that I did not air lock it, like my heart told me to. It got a little, okay, alot foamy and it would have shot that air lock to God knows where! It's calmed down a bit but it's still fermenting like mad. Electric blanket is keeping it nice and toasty I hope. I should have started using distillers yeast from the beginning. Strong stuff!!

On the elderberry scene. I took the nets off of my trees and the fiancé and I picked a little over 4 bushels. The rest are for the birds. Guess I'll be going to the car wash more often in the next few weeks So I have to make some good old fashioned elderberry wine and my hodge-podge syrup for flu season.

My neighbor gave me 2- 5 gallon buckets full of red cherry plums!!! If I knew he had those trees in his yard, I would have gone and picked them all while he was asleep one night I plan on making something very tasty with them tomorrow. Fiancé already picked them all over and de-stemmed em. I have 1 pound of dried organic tart cherries= 8 pounds fresh, (the good kind with no oil on them and no added sugar) left from our trip to Michigan. I plan to incorporate some of them. I'm thinking of a fine distillate from the wine maybe??


Later
ES- The Doctor

[new_moonshiner]

Wineo , do you think any bicarb. soda would be needed for stripping runs just stripped one run of this and second one almost ready .. I myself don't see any added gain with this wash ,getting ready to get out the reflux for some 95+ . But I could be missing something .. somethings are just hard to improve on.. and I think this recipe is one of those..thanks again for sharing the recipe. folks that have not tried it dont really know what there missing . simple , but very effective.

[wineo]

Doing some bicarb on a already stripped spirit run should clean it up a little more.I have a friend that refluxes this stuff to 85% in one run,and its awful clean,but cleaner cant hurt.I potstill it till I have 12 gallons,making cuts on every run,then potstill all 12 gallons,making more cuts.It taste like water,almost.It gets even better if you go for the xxx run.Most people stop there,but the xxxx run will set you free!
Once you start drinking it that clean,you will be able to taste even the lightest of flavors,good and bad.

[new_moonshiner]

thanks Wineo for the suggestions ... much appreciated .

[phoenix]

wineo,
You sure were right on about the bakers yeast. I did 2 5 gal batches last Saturday, 8 days ago, using re-hydrated starters of EC-1118, 1.070sg, 4.4ph and kept them at 30c for the whole time. They are at 1.028sg right now. I did 2 more yesyterday, the exact same except I used the bakers yeast, Fleischmann's #2139 Instant Dry Yeast, 1/2cup per 5gal, and those are already at 1.016. These are only at 24c as I only have 2 warming pads. I'm hoping to get the still done this week and these may be ready to run by then, WOW.
Kim

[new_moonshiner]

I used to use the EC-1118 almost all the time .. until wineo shared this recipe ... I dont think I have used any since ..

[phoenix]

I put one of the heat pads on one of the washes with bakers yeast in it. 30C and it is down to 0.995 today. The one without the pad is only to 1.010. Quite a difference over 1 day.
Kim

[vajravarahi]

This may be a very dumb question, but here goes...

Why does the baker's yeast work better than the EC-1118 in WPOSW?

My guess is that the EC is geared more towards use in wine (duh!). An environment where you actually want it to produce extra flavors in addition to the alcohol. (Who'd want flavorless, alcoholic wine?) The baker's yeast typically is used in (duh!) baking where you really want the CO2 to raise your bread, and most people wouldn't want weird tasting alcoholic bread. Not that the yeast gets to have fun for that long.

Am I in the ballbark, or way off base?

[wineo]

The 1118 would ferment just as fast if you used the same amount,but 1118 gives a stale taste IMO.If you like the product taste using bakers yeast,try the distillers yeast.Its more neutral,and clears better,and faster,and responds better when re-used.When I get one going,I just use it over and over.The bakers yeast seems to stall out when reused on sugar.

[HookLine]

I have not had much success in reusing bakers yeast either. Given up trying and now just use a fresh batch of yeast every time. Dirt cheap anyway so no loss.

[punkin]

I've been reusing bakers yeast on Pints fast mollasses wash, it's up to it's sixth or seventh gen. It's still working just fine, but getting slow to take off, taking up to 24 hours now to form the cap of froth that used to come within six or eight hours.

I souped up one of the drums with some distillers yeast yesterday, so we'll see what happens there.

[wineo]

It restarts good using molassus,but molassus is loaded with neutrents,and they use molassus to make bakers yeast.
It dont restart good with plain sugar because of the missing neutrents I guess.