All grain horse feed.

[blanikdog]

Does anyone in Oz know of a brand of this stuff that's available? Everything I've looked at has pellets or/and lucern (sp?) in it and the blokes don't seem to know wtf I'm talking about.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

can you git oats? and corn ?jut mix your own.

[blanikdog]

I didn't think of that, dunder. Thanks.

Should I start half corn and half oats and alter the quantities to suit my taste, or is there a 'standard' quantity?

blanik

[Hawke]

I think 50/50 would give a fairly light flavor. I really like the corn flavor and would probably start out with 75% corn for myself.

[Dnderhead]

It varies depending where you buy .but its about ---75/ 25 I run threw roller mill I like my corn finer and some of the oats do not look
cracked. I use barley mal to convert. maybe something like makers mark? (so Iv bin told) cant say myself because I don't drink commercials
but I know I cant keep it.

[Dnderhead]

I have 4 of these


I use 100lb of grain and about 25%MAL Do a double cook/convention first cook use enzymes second use mal
comes out about 1.048---1.05 sg? and 7-8%? cooks off 6-7 gal us 40-50%. sort of guessing cause dont maser much no more.
keeps me bizzy and out of trouble ?????????????????

[punkin]

Spoke to my mate in the industry BD, he said there's plenty that are all grain, mostly race horse brews like Barastocks Pharlap, but they all have a component of mollasses, and they have all sorts a shit you won't be interested in like chickpeas, sunflower seeds, lentils etc.

Best thing is to get some feed grade barley, triticale, wheat etc and start playing round with those. My advice after trying all of em so far would be to stay away from the corn to start, unless it's ujsm style you're doing. Mashing is hard enough without learning to cook it for hours first.
If you use barley, wheat, triticale (maybe oats a brew site willl tell you) as an adjunct, you won't have to cook it for hours, just add hot tap water to it till it's at 75 or 80 c and hold it there for a little while. then cool to 65 C and add your malt. Much easier learning curve and you can maybe get that bit right first.

I like the oats, but i like just plain steam rolled barley heated and pitched with 30% malt barley too.
The triticale is nice, a little more taste (or spicier taste anyway) than the barley, so you could do 20% trit, 50 % sr rolled barley and 30% malt barley for a great brew. Or swap the trit for oats....

[Dnderhead]

Yes! as punkin said if you haven't mashed before don't start with corn. takes a lot of cooking. (about 2hours) other grain dont take no where as long
as you gain experience add a little corn at a time.(so you can see what it does)

[I-GOR]

Maybe this has already been covered - I vaguely remember someone asking a similar question, but couldn't find the thread.

I can buy a 50# bag of this for $12. Question is, will it ferment with those preservatives? I'm afraid I already know the answer.................

[blanikdog]

Thanks guys, I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[muckanic]

Question is, will it ferment with those preservatives? I'm afraid I already know the answer.................

The bad news is no it won't. Sorbic acid, for instance, is used to halt wine fermentations (so that no refermentation occurs in the bottle). Unlike preservatives like metabisulphite, this is not just a yeast inhibitor but a yeast killer, and it can't be eliminated simply by aeration.

The good news is that all those preservatives (including the parabens which the label doesn't flag) look to be water soluble. Try wiki for more information. So, step one would be to rinse them out just before use. Technically, a number of those preservatives look like they might be more water-soluble under alkaline rather than acidic conditions, although there shouldn't be much in it. Try a couple of test batches under both conditions, using some heat if you get really desperate. There may be enough ammonium hydroxide in there that a water soak settles out alkaline anyway, in which case you would want to correct that before mashing. Under alkaline conditions, ammonia will vent off, whereas under acidic conditions some ammonium nutrient would be created. I'd be inclined to rinse more than once if necessary until achieving neutral pH. You probably wouldn't want to soak the flakes too long, as you could lose some starch to the rinse water, and that process is likely to be accelerated if you use heat or grind before rinsing. The least water contact would be achieved by sparging the feed. I'm now trying to cover every contingency and will shut up!

[I-GOR]

Thanks Mr. Muckanic. Also, my apologies to Blanikdog as I didn't want to hijack this thread, but since we were on the subject of horse feed....


Boy, should I take the $12 chance and wash the grains a couple of time? I know I can get crack corn with no preservatives.

I weel not buy ......zees.....tobaconist..............Eet ees scratched.

I'll give it a try simply because the grain blend is sooo tempting.

[Dnderhead]

If your going to try corn start with a thin mash first (1lb/ 1/2 kilo ) to the gallon. it gits thick and hard to stir and burns on bottom.
other grains are not as bad.

[I-GOR]

If your going to try corn start with a thin mash first (1lb/ 1/2 kilo ) to the gallon. it gits thick and hard to stir and burns on bottom.
other grains are not as bad.

Dunder, you've givin me good advice soo many times. Change of heart....think I'll go back to the corn w/ no preservatives; doin the double sparge you recommend. Hey, what's the official recipe for 'Old Nag" anyway?
Meantime-in-between-time I'll check with the feed store to see what they sell with no preservatives.

My hover craft ees full ....of eels.

[Dnderhead]

50lb corn and oats ( run threw mill) put this in 55gal barrel fill with water boil and stir for about 2 hours. cool to 150f add about 4tabal spoons enzymes
let set several hours ,drain/siphon off and remove grain (save) add liqwid back to barrel add another 50 lb grain- sprag used grain with enough water to top up barrel,then cook again , when cooked-- cool to 150f add about 30 lbs crushed malt leave over night. next day drain/siphon off beer and put in fermenter add yeast (most times it is already in fermenter) sprag old grain top up fermenter and save any water that is left for cooking next batch. 4, 50 gal fermenters should keep you going. ( not my recipe just revised )

[blanikdog]

Thanks Mr. Muckanic. Also, my apologies to Blanikdog as I didn't want to hijack this thread, but since we were on the subject of horse feed....

Absolutely no need to apologise GOR. That's what this forum is all about.

[I-GOR]

50lb corn and oats ( run threw mill) put this in 55gal barrel fill with water boil and stir for about 2 hours. cool to 150f add about 4tabal spoons enzymes
let set several hours ,drain/siphon off and remove grain (save) add liqwid back to barrel add another 50 lb grain- sprag used grain with enough water to top up barrel,then cook again , when cooked-- cool to 150f add about 30 lbs crushed malt leave over night. next day drain/siphon off beer and put in fermenter add yeast (most times it is already in fermenter) sprag old grain top up fermenter and save any water that is left for cooking next batch. 4, 50 gal fermenters should keep you going. ( not my recipe just revised )

DUNDER, I was thinking about your recipe above, and just wanted to make sure I was interpreting it correct. Is this right?

DUNDERHEAD'S OL' NAG RECIPE

1. 50lb Corn + 50 lb Oats, crushed, place in 55 gallon barrel.
2. Fill with water and bring to a boil, stirring, and boil for about 2 hours.
3. When temperature has cooled to 150f, add 4 tablespoons enzyme blend.
4. Let sit several more hours, drain liquid wort from barrel.
5. Sparge cooked grains with enough water to top up 55 gallon barrel after adding the wort back to the grains still in the barrel.
6. Add wort back to 55 gallon barrel, top up with thin wort from sparged grains. Bring grains and wort back up to a boil.
7. Let cool to 150f, then add 30 lbs crushed malt, let convert over night.
8. Next day, siphon off wort, put in fermenter, add yeast.
9. Sparge used grains in barrel again with hot water. Use third sparging to top up fermenter; use any leftover thin wort to cook the next batch of grains.


So, you first convert with enzyme, and then cook again and convert again with malt - double cook method, right?
What does ol' nag taste like, can you compare it with any other types of whiskey?

[Dnderhead]

I Do half the grain convert then the other half both corn and oats git thick "thank oat meal" Iv seen some cook corn/oats then stir enzymes
in the top layer then stir again in a few hours until down to bottom . but that did not seem to work for me. Since you have them separate Id try
cooking corn first (takes longer) then cook oats (not long at all). oat whisky is gooood ! but not easy to make. I think the last commercial made was in the 1970s?

[blanikdog]

So far my attempt at Steamed rolled barley has been dismal to say the least. My boiler was too small, I couldn't filter the mash and on and on it went.

After a few frantic PM's I'm in the process again, this time with much more confidence. Shit, this is a wonderful forum!!!!

No cooking the steamed barley cos it's already been cooked, whacked it all in a large fermenter, poured hot 70c water over it and will use the stuff I collected first time round as a starter to ferment on the grain.

I will continue to report my progress. If you never hear from me again you'll know I failed and slashed my wrists.

blanik

[duds2u]

Note to Mrs Blanik. Hide all sharp instruments, we cannot afford to lose him.

[Dnderhead]

Steamed rolled ????????? anything does not need cooking , just a good"hot bath" but------ does need converting with either a base malt,
or enzymes (gluco/alpha amylase)

[blanikdog]

Yairsss Dunder. Thanks for your help. I think I have it now.

I used a much larger fermenter and it's sitting cooling as we speak. I'll put some LDM and enzyme in when it gets to 65c, then add my yeast starter at about 20c. I'll let it ferment on the grain and use one of those braided SS hose covers to filter the grain out for distilling

Picking up some rolled oats today.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

I just wanted others to know. did not want some one thanking they could just cook grain and ferment (could be done but whould take months)

[blanikdog]

What a frigging disaster!!! All that effort and stuffing about for something that had an og of 40. This is roughly about 6%. I'll distill it anyway and try to sort out what went wrong.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

how much grain did you use?

[blanikdog]

how much grain did you use?

9 kg barley but absolutely no sweetness. what sugar that was there fermented in one day.

Rather than dump it I threw a few kg of sugar in it to make an UJSM style. It's fermenting well so it may make something OK. If not I'll try again.

blanik

[punkin]

What a frigging disaster!!! All that effort and stuffing about for something that had an og of 40. This is roughly about 6%. I'll distill it anyway and try to sort out what went wrong.

blanik

Sounds about right


You shoulda kept going mate and made a few more batches





ItsWorthTheTroubleForABottleOrTwoPunkin

[Dnderhead]

about 2lb (1kg) of grain per gal (4qt/L) water should come to 1.058 sg/ 8% mash, that's what I generally shoot for. with corn/oats I do a dubble
convertion others don't seem to bother.that figer is aproxament. depending on grain etc.I also rince grain and use that water to cook next batch
with.or ferment on the grain but the grain takes up so much room in fermenter and hard to get out so I generally don't.

[blanikdog]

Thanks for that dunder. It looks as if I hadn't used enough barley for the water I used. Nine kg barley/ 20 litres water.

Ah well, there's always tomorrow - I hope.

She'llberightblanik

[muckanic]

Your mashing efficiency looks terrible. If that was a sparged beer, it ought to result in a gravity of at least 100 for that volume of water. Fermenting on the grain, however, is a different matter because the sugars produced by mashing are simultaneously being consumed by the ferment. A lot depends how long the mash took to cool down before the yeast was added, and in particular how long it spent in the 50-65C range where sugar production would have been at a maximum. Another consideration with fermenting on the grain is that the grain absorbs both water and sugar and if it doesn't absorb each equally, that could muck up the gravity reading. For mashing, the stiffness looks about right to me, but note that Dunder is recommending double that amount of water for fermenting on the grain, not more grain.

Bottom line: the hydrometer could be misleading and there could be more alcohol in there. Assuming you're not planning to run the grain, sparging the fermented grain could extract a little more as well.