Trouble malting barley

[hank]

I've been working with all grain mashes ...25# corn 10# barley malt 5# rye.
I'm having trouble malting the barley.. it seems very inconsistent, sometimes it works sometimes not. 4x I've tried it. 1st I thru out thought it started to rot, 2nd worked good, 3rd some over modified, some under modified. Working on the 4th batch now, all batches were done the same I.E., I wash the grain, then soak for about 8 hr. drain, air for 8hrs. soak another 8hrs. then spread out on plastic to germinate, at which time some chits are just starting. Thing is it starts to smell like horseshit. The first batch had that smell then it kind of subsided smelled faintly sweet then like horse turds again, threw it out. Is this a normal thing. I have been buying barley malt but would like to get barley from local feed store and do it myself. Any ideas? By the way just got me an aerator to try the bucket in a bucket method I read about. Been readin awhile and have made a few runs, learnin enough to start askin questions. Thanks guys

[Dnderhead]

don't keep soaking-- just the once then keep damp. turn so as to git air. (stir from bottom and turn over and mix needs air or will rot)

[hank]

that was my first thought Dunder, but then everything I read has said to soak and air out in cycles over 2,3 even 4 days. Guess I should follow my instincts. I have read about your malting and how quite a few have asked how you do it. So looks like there will not be as long a soak. Does the aereator in water under a bucket with holes in the bottom work well? Fixin to give it a try

[Dnderhead]

Iv used a bucket ---1) soak 4 hours--drain --2) fill bucket with water stir(from bottom up) and let it drain--repeat daily
(corn needs more soaking then others) never tried the aerate thing . Don't thank grain sets in water just the vapors from water/bucket below

[big worm]

dunder, at what point do you stop the malting and start drying? roots twice as long as grain? i have some corn malting and some have small 1/8'" sprouts with 3/4" roots but some are just beginig to get roots. i gotta stop it at some point but i feel i should wait a little longer. any advice?...hank not hijacking your thread but were both malting and your thread was handy
i soaked the corn 3 days changing water daily, on the third day grain was giving off some kind of gas. then spread out on screen and coverd with damp cover misting every other day stirring each day.

[Dnderhead]

corn about 1 in (25mm) sprouts,, others about the length of grain. if it has a hull on you have to cut open to see.

[hank]

By all means go ahead Big.. we can gang up on dnder and pick his brain . Seriously though dnder thanks for the help. and by the way big...i have noticed that as my barley is smellin like a barnyard, and slow to malt if at all....the stray grains of corn, and soybeans in with them seem to sprout right fine, if only the barley would. Just an obsevation. lets keep goin

[hank]

I have been gettin the feelin that most of my problems stem from the fact that differant grains need slightly differant malting techniques, they kinda get mixed together. As with my problem now, I have been soaking barley for a day or more, reading that it takes up to 4 days of soaking. I think that may be good for corn but too much for barley. I could be wrong just the feelin I get

[Dnderhead]

right corn needs more hears some wheat "no halls" ----if had halls it whould be hidden.need to cut open to see.

[big worm]

bag of malted barly at brew shop $44. bag of grain from feed store $30 because the have to order it....brew shop is cheap compaired to work involved malting. barley just ain't popular here like corn and wheat an rye.

[big worm]

is that pic of wheat reddy to start drying?

[Dnderhead]

yes, with out halls, if it hade halls you whould not see the sprout it growes up the side under the hall,

[big worm]

thanks, gonna do some wheat now

[Dnderhead]

more beer has for 32$ but shipping

[Hack]

I'm working on my barley malting technique also.

One of the books I've got recommends that you soak the barley until you can crush it easily between your fingers. On my latest batch, I changed the water once a day, it probably could have used being changed twice a day. It got a bit smelly before I changed the water. I ended up soaking for three or four days until I felt like it crushed easily. I used the bucket inside a bucket method for soaking and it worked really well.

Where I ran into problems is in the sprouting time. Some seemed to sprout more quickly than others. I'd like to get things more uniform. I think the problem was that it wasn't kept uniformly moist. I've got a cabinet I built with trays for shelves. The bottoms of the trays are perforated aluminum sheets I found at the hardware store. The idea was that I could fill the trays with soaked grains and let them sprout. I could pour water down through the trays once a day to keep them moist. There is a catch tray at the bottom of the cabinet for the water. Once things sprout adequately I can empty the catch tray and fit a small ceramic disc heater to it. The sprouting cabinet turns into a drying cabinet. The drying part of things works great. I crack the lid on top of the cabinet so the hot air entering from the heater at the bottom has a place to escape. When I first started using the cabinet, sprouting corn, I had trouble with it molding. I was closing the cabinet up tight to retain the moisture and the lack of airflow was promoting mold. This last run with barley I kept the lid on the top of the cabinet, and and the heater port open a bit. I didn't have any problem with mold but things sprouted really unevenly. My trays only allow me to pile the grains about 3/4" deep. With the added airflow during sprouting, I'm having trouble keeping the grains uniformly moist. I'm guessing that's why they are sprouting unevenly.

Any helpful ideas out there? I'm considering leaving the grains in the bucket I soaked them in just drained of water while they sprout. Then just roll the bucket around once a day to stir them up and rinse them with some water to keep them moist. I'd use the cabinet only to dry them once they sprout.

[Barney Fife]

I've had great malting results after Dnder told me about his bucket with drain holes method.

What I did was drill about ten 1/8" holes in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. I fill it about half way up with barley(roughly ten lbs), then top it up with lukewarm water, and cover it with a towel. It slowly drains off, and I refill it at about 4 hour intervals until it begins to sprout(end of day 2, usually), and then only once a day. At every fillup, I reach in my my(clean) hand, right down to the bottom, and give it a good, thorough stirring. After letting it settle a few seconds, I'll screen off everything that floats, also.

I've had excellent results with this method! And it's so easy.

[hank]

just started the bucket with aereater method, I found that without the air the water drains slowly thru the grain, about a gallon a minute, into the bottom bucket, now with the air on the water takes forever to drain if it does at all, after 2hours looked like same amount of water in upper bucket, BUT air constantly perculates up thru grain. I have the air hose running thru the side of lower bucket, snug fit no air leak, The 1 bucket fits snugly inside the other to make an airtight fit. I guess the air being forced thru the many small holes in upper bucket does not allow water to drain. As soon as i start to pull buckets apart water starts to drain.
My question is is this good or not?
I guess there are 3 ways to go 1) forget the air just run water thru grain till it begins to sprout
2)use air let water stand areated on the grain till it drains (if ever), or for 4-8hours whichever comes first
3)let water drain thru grain into lower bucket THEN turn on air so humidified air is forced up thru grain bed
any thoughts, experiences

[hank]

CORRECTION....2 buckets DO NOT MAKE an airtight fit,they just fit together snug enough that very little air from air pump is able to escape from between them. Most is forced thru holes in top bucket. Should have realized water would not drain not matter what if the fit was truely airtight, unless the displaced air from bottom bucket escaped thru drain holes in top bucket..those creating bubbles (duh). Still wonder which is beeter route to go with

[Hack]

Me, I'm looking for the simplest way to do it, with the simplest equipment, that produces reasonable results. What Barney said a couple posts up has got all kinds of bells, lights, and whistles going off.

I've had grains sprout for me with a variety of methods and ranges of time soaking. What I've had trouble with is stink, mold, and uneven sprouting. Stink comes from soaking the grains in water and not changing it often enough, doesn't seem to affect sprouting though. Bubbling air through might help that, but I've never tried it. Mold comes from not enough air circulating through the grains after they've been soaked. Uneven sprouting, I'm guessing, has come from not keeping the grains evenly moist after soaking.

[hank]

started soaking yesterday late morning 11:00am soaked till about 7pm drained left in bucket overnite, then spread out on plastic covered table in basemnet this morn. Alot of chits forming some sprouts already. Got to thinking... you can over soak and cause spoil.. but if you UNDER soak nothin happens no harm just add more moisture. Will kkeep updated. gonna make a rum tommorrow think i'll mash wed. instead of doin it all in 1 day. at the rate malt is goin i think it might be ready by then. dont know where this 5-15 or 25 days to make barley malt comes from. seems a helluva lot quiker than that

[Barney Fife]

you can over soak and cause spoil.. but if you UNDER soak nothin happens no harm

Right; that was Dnder's point, I believe. I started with just a few drilled holes, but found the draining took too long, so I kept adding holes until the bucket drained in about 20-30 minutes. I leave the bucket in a tub, by the way, so there's no reason for double buckets. The towel over the top keep the humidity up and prevents the grains from drying, while still allowing them to breath.

Sure enough works.

[Dnderhead]

Exactly and I thank also by filling/draining you rinse mold spoors etc off, Barney sounds like you've got it down the same way I do it
and it is easier to mix when the water is in the bucket.number of holes? just gist.

[hank]

Coming along very well, thought about starting to dry it today but looks like it could go a bit longer. Lots of roots, acrospires look to be about 1/3 length of grain at most, some with roots show no arospire yet. been leaving in a mound on table and turning then misting with water at least 2-3 times a day. I dont want to use the tub Barn, dont wanna make wife upset, would be nice though,thats the reason for the second bucket. by the way i do have a smell, but it has a tinge of sweetness, pleasant anyhow, no manure . Made a run yesterday but decided to make a hybrid UJSM for next run instead of all grain mash, but thats a different story.

[Hack]

I started five pounds of barley last night using Dnderhead's bucket method as Barney described. I'll only be able to soak it twice a day because of my work schedule so I put less holes in my bucket to give a longer soak. We'll see how it goes.

[Hack]

This is working great! After three days it looks like I've got real close to 100% of my grain sprouting, and its sprouting evenly. I haven't found any grains that aren't sprouting. Right now I've got rootlets about twice the length of the grain and the acrospire isn't yet visible.

I used a five gallon bucket and drilled five 1/8" holes in the bottom of it around the outside edge. I've got it sitting in the laundry sink on the back porch and have been filling it with body temp water twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. I've been giving the grains a gentle stirring with my hand while the bucket is full. Then I cover it up with a towel and leave it to drain.

No mold, no smell, even sprouting. This looks good so far.

[Barney Fife]

Sounds a lot like mine does at this point, too. Glad it's working as well for you as it did for me.

All hail the King, Dnder!

[hank]

gotta hand out the thanks to all you guys, especially dnderhead. 1 batch done another comeing along nicely, third started. Gonna make an all grain mash sun. or mon. after runnin UJSM hybrid. will use all homemade malt, see if it converts as well as readymade in my bourbon grain bill. Gettin ready to finally buy a aging barrel but will post in Flavoring and Aging. THANKS guys

[blanikdog]

All hail the King, Dnder!

Yairsss, dunder is one good bloke!!!

blanik

[Dnderhead]

I have another way I do 50-100 lb (23-46kg?) batches, the idea is used, but developed as to cut much of handling.





thanks guys, but just an old hillbilly doing what I have to.

[punkin]

I have another way I do 50-100 lb (23-46kg?) batches, the idea is used, but developed as to cut much of handling.





thanks guys, but just an old hillbilly doing what I have to.

That's what i'm interested in. Was thinking i'd drag the boat outa the shed and floor malt it. There's plenty of room in there to use a hose on the concrete and a snow shovel to turn it.

Just been waiting till i build my new jerky drier, was guna do some screen trays and have it double as a malt drier/smoker.

Would pay carefull attention to what you have to advise dunder.