Mashing Corn, First Time Distilling

[irish69]

Hi-
I've just joined today after reading up about distilling for a few weeks. A friend of mine and I are getting ready to try our hand at making whiskey. I have already purchased the cornmeal and 5lbs of 6 row malt is on its way from Brewhaus. The recipe I'm planning on using calls for 10lbs of grain for every 5 gallons of water. I would like to use a ratio of grains similar to the bill that Jack Daniels uses. I was thinking 8lbs corn, 1lb malt, and if I can find rye, 1lb of that. If no rye is to be found I will probably up the corn poundage. So now down to the questions!From what I have read it is necessary to cook the grains prior to pitching the yeast.
1. From my knowledge of biology I know that if enzymes are heated past a certain temperature they will denature and not work. Is the 70 degrees Celsius that it says to cook the mash at cool enough for the enzymes in the malt? If not, how do the enzymes catalyze the starch? Do I add the malt after it is cooked? I have also read that Beano contains the same enzyme that the malt does. Should I cook the grains and then add Beano when I pitch the yeast?
2. After my mash is cooked should I strain the grains from the wash?
3. If I should, how do I do this? Won't 10lbs of grain in 5 gals water make a big mess of thick porridge?
4. If I shouldn't separate the grains, won't they burn on the bottom of my still?
5. Should I add yeast nutrient to my mash when I pitch the yeast?
Finally...
6. I am still in the process of making my still. So far I have the condenser finished, and I am almost done with my thump keg. For the boiler I plan on using a 15.5 gallon Guinness keg. Seeing as its whiskey I'm after, I want to build a pot still. All the instructions, plans and pictures that I have been able to find are for reflux stills. Does anyone have suggestions for how I could turn my keg into a pot still? Is a gallon jar large enough to use as a thumper or should it be larger?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[big worm]

this is just my opinion....thats all, take it for what its worth. start with a couple easy ferments like wposw or ujssm or even a dwwg learn how to distill and run your rig before jumping into a corn mash. most folks do wheat,oats stuff like that before mashing corn. corn can be hard to work with at first. you have way to many questions for one post to reply to. every question you asked is in the mashing and fermenting forum. receipes in the tryed and true section. for what its worth

[junkyard dawg]

worms got good advice... and welcome here. You can find everything you need here. I would second what he said and add, Take your time... There is much to learn and its not gonna come together with out a few hands on tries...

Beano... alpha galactosidase... Its just a small part of the picture... it won't do the whole job, but it does have a place in boosting your yields. more research will help...

wait on the thump keg... thats a bit more advanced. get the basics first...

fermenting and straining and whatnot... I'd ferment on the grain, and let everything settle.(be Patient!) When its clear you can rack off the clear portion and run that in the still. No burning grain, no problem...

It sounds like you have a good grasp, but could use some more study too... (like all of us...)

Lets start with your still, what are you building?

[irish69]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know that I posted a lot of questions, they're the results of reading through as much info as I could find. Big Worm- could you tell me what those abbreviations stand for? I've seen some of them, but apart from ujssm, I don't know what they mean. I realize that corn is harder to work with than other mashes, but I would still like to use it anyway. There are a few reasons for this. While this is my first time distilling, my uncle and father have both made moonshine before. My father when he was much, much younger, and my uncle still does. I have helped my uncle a few times, and my father will most likely come over to oversee the process, so I have a pretty good idea about the steps involved and such. I don't want to do the ujssm method because my uncle makes a mash without cooking it, and it never comes out too great. Granted he doesn't save the backset, but I still want to go the cooked mash method, and I already bought the cornmeal.

As far as the still is concerned, I have a keg that I would like to use for my boiler. I have seen photos of keg with various methods of attaching the column to them, but I am really just concerned with making a pot still, not a reflux still that can be used as a pot still. Most likely I will start off like the ones I have seen online. Luckily my dad does a lot of metal working as a hobby, so I have plasma cutters, mig welders, etc. available, as well as someone who is good at using them. We're planning on using the plasma cutter to put a hole in the keg. Then we want to braze or weld some bolts to the top. These will be used to secure a metal mixing bowl to the top of the keg. From there we just have to figure out how to create a lyne arm to attach to this, as well as a thermometer. An example of what I'm talking about can be seen here: moonshine-still.com/page18.htm

I have already built my condenser. I made my worm out of 3/8'' copper tubing. I plan on connecting this to the still or thumper using flare fittings. The worm is in a 4gal bucket. I put a valve on the bottom to allow the water to drain, and i think I'm just going to run a hose into the top, instead of fitting it with some sort of input. I'll try to post some pictures of this tomorrow.

I realize that a 15.5 gallon still and a corn mash is a large undertaking, but I'm a pretty ambitious undertaking. With the experience from the older members of my family, I think I can swing it though. I tried my hands at making some pear wine this fall too, and that came out pretty well. From what I've heard that experience will help me with fermenting the mash. I hope I don't seem impetuous or cocky by insisting on trying this method!

[big worm]

i quit reading after the first section, i got several things going on at the same time. wposw is wineos plane old sugar wash all the abv. things are in the recipe section. it takes a bit of reading to figure out the lingo here. use the search feature and read a few of the results its not hard to catch on to. i would still build the rig then run a few simple washes to learn and make cuts. personaly i would rather learn on something easy rather spend a bunch of work then scorch it or miss my cuts find the leaks in the still ...you get the jist. ujssm is fine made from corn meal or any other grain. crawl,walk,run,.....drive.

[junkyard dawg]

I hope I don't seem impetuous or cocky by insisting on trying this method!

not any more than any of the rest of us who have been down these roads....

sounds like you have some great resources on your own... I might be asking you some questions before long! Good luck with your build and let me know if I can help...

I still recommend reading a lot here on the forum... Its like college without that pesky tuition...

[Hack]

Here's a link to some pics that may give you some ideas.

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Still_Gallery

Also once you get your rig done you can add your pics there as well.

[irish69]

i would still build the rig then run a few simple washes to learn and make cuts. personaly i would rather learn on something easy rather spend a bunch of work then scorch it or miss my cuts find the leaks in the still ...you get the jist. ujssm is fine made from corn meal or any other grain. crawl,walk,run,.....drive.

Sounds fair to me. I guess it would not hurt to run a batch or two of ujssm before I get to doing the fancy whiskey. Thanks for the advice and the support!

[Hack]

Doing UJSM is a great way to get your distilling skills sorted out without having to worry about your mashing skills.

[irish69]

Thanks a lot for that link Hack, those photos do help, especially the ones of your still. Thats the way I think I'll do mine.

Junkyard dawg- I'll put pictures of the still up once I finish it. Thanks also for the encouragement.

Now that I am going to do a ujssm, I have some questions about that!

1. If I'm using cornmeal, how do I separate the spent corn from the good? The instructions for ujssm are for cracked corn, not cornmeal. Will the cornmeal float to the top like the cracked corn does?
2. Can I still add my malt and rye to give it more flavor?
3. Would adding the beano help at all or will this not significantly affect the process?
4. Also, how do I measure my ABV? It says a bunch of stuff about certain ABV's.
5. Lastly, what are the "cuts" mentioned? It tells you to make "generic cuts" like 80%-70%.

[big worm]

corn meal works, scoop some out and replace with cracked each time. yes on the malt or rye. beano can't hurt.
now %abv and cuts .alchol by volume the have hydromoters to read that. cuts are heads, hearts and, tails...you best go read and figure that out on your own. this is basic stuff in the faq i will give you this nugget on cuts.....no matter how much you read or how much anyone tells you YOU have to learn how to make them on your still. sugar wash and hands on learning skills. cuts take time they are what will make you or break you as a distiller. you said your uncle makes no cook corn and tastes bad.....most likely his cuts are off. you have read some but i think you skimmed across alot and not sure how to put it together yet....build your still....make an easy wash... do lots of reading. your asking very very basic questions here. this is the place to ask them but, most all the questions your asking leads me to think you did a lot of skimming and very little in depth reading.

[Hack]

I'm glad the pics helped. I've upgraded my rig since those pictures, but it doesn't get much easier to build than that setup. A larger column and a tapered lyne arm being the biggest improvements, but that will get you started for sure.

Don't worry about the corn meal. The best way to scoop off the spent stuff is actually after the wash is fermented and you've siphoned the wash out. After you do that the spent grains will be the ones on the top of the pile in the fermenter.

I'd recommend getting the UJSM started. Follow the recipe as closely as possible. My UJSM usually takes two to three weeks to ferment, and then I let it settle for another week or so. This will give you time to do more reading and get some of your other questions answered. I'd wait til the last bit, when you've done more reading and pondering, before you get your rig put together though.

[irish69]

Here are those pics of my condenser and the beginning of my lyne arm. I'm short one elbow, but once I get that I can finish it.

The outlet is on the bottom, and instead of making an inlet I'm just going to run a hose in the top.

Condenser1.jpg (17.12 KiB) Viewed 4225 times

Condenser2.jpg (24.69 KiB) Viewed 4225 times

I still need to add a 45 degree elbow on the end of the pipe all the way on the right end of the pic and then put a strait pipe on that to go down into the still. The largest pipe here is 3/4''. I reduced this to 1/2'' and finally 3/8''.

LyneArm.jpg (23.27 KiB) Viewed 4212 times

[big worm]

how are you going to attach the still head to the keg?

[irish69]

You've read my mind worm! I just posted a thread over on the pot still forum asking how to do this. Do you have any suggestions?

[big worm]

all i have are opinions, conecting a head to a keg can be done a couple of ways, one is with a tri-clover clamp fitting sold at brewhauss on line about $30 or cut a 8" hole in keg and use a s/s mixing bowl. i use the bowl, my bro uses clamp. me i prefer the bowl because of ease of cleaning and charging...and dumping out. i think the extra room in the dome helps.
either way i think you should go with a 2" copper pipe even if its scrap only 2" long. because the clamps are for 2" pipe. when you posted your pic's i nearly typed 3-4 times sudgesting 2" folks on here way smarter than me about the mathmatics of distilling but i would think 3/4'" is going to reduce your thru put. a full 15 gal charge may turn out to be a long ride. if it does your gonna use more fuel in the long run. i really don't know the numbers like others here do.

[irish69]

I was planning on going with the bowl method. How do you attach the pipe to the bowl though? It has to be 2'' you say? I was hoping 3/4'' would be enough. Do you know if I could still use what I made already or should I just put it aside and start new?

[irish69]

So the stage is set! I mixed up a 10gal batch of ujsm tonight. I used 5lbs of malt, 9lbs of cornmeal and 14lbs of sugar. I mixed the grains in slowly so as to not get clumps. Then I pitched it with two packages of Premier whiskey yeast. The cornmeal that I used it awfully fine, so I think that next time I will use cracked corn instead. Also, it was grey when I mixed it up, not the yellow that I've read about. I think thats due to the fine cornmeal and the malt though.

[junkyard dawg]

Do you know if I could still use what I made already or should I just put it aside and start new?

use what you have... Get rolling and see what works for you. I hope you get the bowl thing worked out and get it going. Its a fun ride, experimenting and learning and trying new things... Remember, opinions are like assholes... we all have our preferences and the things that work for us, you get to work out what works for you. Good luck, enjoy the experience.

[irish69]

use what you have...

Thats what I'm going to do, junkyard dawg. Tonight I finished my lyne arm and I cut the hole in my keg. The mixing bowl that I am using is 8'' across so I made a 7'' hole in the keg. Now I just need to attach the arm to the bowl and the bolts to the keg. Then I'll use washers and nuts to clamp the bowl to the keg and seal it with flour paste. How does that sound?

[junkyard dawg]

sounds awesome, welcome to the club

Keep safety in mind. You don't wanna drink the first run through a new still because there will be all kinds of crap in there... flux, sweat, oils... run some cheap wine or a simple sugar wash... something that you don't care about. You can use the distillate as a fire starter, ant killer, glass cleaner... all kinds of things... just don't drink it. save your good UJSM for run 2 or 3.

Let us know how things go.

[Hack]

If you mount your column off center on the mixing bowl you can just use a bungie cord through the handles on the keg and up over the top of the bowl. That's what I use and it works great.

[irish69]

So, tomorrow I'm going to run my still for the first time. Water first, to check for leaks, then some cheap wine to clean it out with. After that I have two washes ready to be ran. My ujsm has finally finished, and I also have 5gal of Pintoshine's Fast Fermenting Molasses that will be done. I'll probably do one or both of these during the weekend. My question now is, which one should I run first, the rum or the whiskey? Also, am I correct in my understanding that I should first to a stripping run, then after several of these do a spirit run? Thanks!

[big worm]

strip the ujssm and restart it, save the strip to combine with the next run. then do the rum strip...if you are doing more rum save it and strip till you have a enuff for a full charge. other wise double and twist the rum and enjoy

[irish69]

So I just got done running water and wine through the still. After some adjustments everything is up and running like a charm. I ended up scrapping the thin mixing bowl i had and opting for a pot with a thick copper coated bottom. I then used a Sil-fos rod to attach my arm to the pot. Tomorrow I hope to strip the ujsm. Wish me luck!