pollen would do as a nutrient

[Ayay]

I wonder how bee pollen would do as a nutrient as well as a source of wild yeasts.

In Zimbabwe traditional millet beer is drunk on the grain, it's like a sour thin porridge fermented in open containers with wild yeasts. Usual serving is in a half gallon plastic bucket which will get you pissed good and it's nutritious too. After racking my DWWG brew the leftovers smell and taste very similar!

[zymos]

I wonder how bee pollen would do as a nutrient as well as a source of wild yeasts.

I've used it in meads with good results. However once I used I bunch that I'd collected from our hives that also had lots of propolis mixed in, and it seemed to inhibit fermentation.

[blind drunk]

Wild yeasts are symbiotically linked with a variety of souring bacteria. Both the wild yeasts and souring bacteria are linked but work within different parameters. The trick is learning how to control both as they coexist in a single grain or fruit based medium.

However once I used I bunch that I'd collected from our hives that also had lots of propolis mixed in, and it seemed to inhibit fermentation.

Beehives are the original anti bacteria soaps, so parts of it would inhibit wild fermentation. I just read a great little book called The Robbing of Bees. Everything I learned in grade school but forgot. Certainly have a new appreciation of bees - hell, even their stings help people with MS and arthritis.

[zymos]

I read a book on Mead many years ago, before I knew anything about beekeeping, that claimed that the ancient meads of yore were different than what anyone makes today, due to them being fermented with wild yeasts from the hive itself.
From what I can remember, they said modern beekeeping methods somehow prevent the yeast from even being present. It didn't have to do with miticides or anything chemical, but something about segregating the queen in some way. Which doesn't really make much sense with what I now know about beekeeping.

I'll have to see if I can find the book somwehere...

[Ayay]

but something about segregating the queen in some way.

Yes modern beehives keep the queen with her combs of pollen and grubs separate from the honey combs. The queen is kept in the brood chamber, and the bees put the honey in separate chambers called 'supers' which can be taken by the beekeeper to get honey only.

When robbing a wild hive we get a mix of combs containing honey, pollen and brood along with dead bees and other debris.

Propolis is the stuff that bees use for sealing the hive. It's like a varnish and gap filler and has some amazing medicinal properties, I think mummies were preserved with it.

[zymos]

but something about segregating the queen in some way.

Yes modern beehives keep the queen with her combs of pollen and grubs separate from the honey combs. The queen is kept in the brood chamber, and the bees put the honey in separate chambers called 'supers' which can be taken by the beekeeper to get honey only.

When robbing a wild hive we get a mix of combs containing honey, pollen and brood along with dead bees and other debris.

Propolis is the stuff that bees use for sealing the hive. It's like a varnish and gap filler and has some amazing medicinal properties, I think mummies were preserved with it.

I've only kept top bar hives, which I guess are not considered "modern". If the queen is off by herself laying eggs,somehow separated from the rest of the hive, who takes care of her and the babies?-they are helpless on their own. In our hives, the bees can go wherever they want, but of course they know not to start putting honey in the cells where eggs or larvae are.

Sorry-getting off-topic here...I should just read a book...

Anyway, the point was that this honey, or rather the wild yeasts in it, gave the mead magical or psychoactive properties, beyond alcohol, and that modern methods of beekeeping would preclude it. Or honey has been produced by ancient means, but I probably "ruined" it by adding modern store bought yeast

[Dnderhead]

I do not want to git off topic but I Thought that if bees lost the queen the produced another?
now to the question that I would like answered . I have a bee hive given to me , it has to be moved ,when do I move it
any time before the flowers come out?

[Hillbilly Rebel]

DH,
Check out this link. The newsletter talks about moving hives among other things. http://www.ksbabeekeeping.org/Bee_Lines ... 202007.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[goose eye]

ole boys was raised on wild yeast unlessin it was beer. ole doc got em to tryin store bought in wine.

ole sayin in bee keepin you get 2 bee keepers together an youll be getin 3 opinions.
if you lose queen an aint got no brood it only a matter of time til it dies out unlessin you put a frame of brood or requeen cause youll be getin a drone layer. if you got bees dont move that hive into your bee yard till you no it aint got no problems cause you putin all your colonys at risk. i no some that if they catch a swarm not from there yard they will give it away cause of the risks. i dont use queen excluder it just one more thang to keep up with

dunder whats it heritage ? id get it now it lighter on your back an easyer on them then feed em some fumagilin b. more bees starve this time of year than any other. id check mite count. bee keepin aint cheep. i would split an requeen - read up on that -. they say one big hive makes more honey than 2 small but that dont mater cause you aint gonna be robin this first year. i hate killin producein queens but sometimes you gota do what you dont wana do for the good of the colony.

so im tole

[Dnderhead]

This was a empty hive someone "donated" over time bees moved in and doing good. but this hive is just out side there door.
I have the room (and lots of blackberry's/ locas) just thought Id save the bees and in the proses have some honey/and pollinators.
I m not worried about contamination that whould be the only hive.

[goose eye]

id move em now . you gota be careful of swarmin if you aint splitin. a supercede cell is diferent than swarm cell .

[zymos]

I have a bee hive given to me , it has to be moved ,when do I move it

Make sure when you move it that it has the same orientation (north, south, east, west) that it did before.
We've caught swarms that insisted on trying to build comb perpendicular because of what they had been used to, and it's a ton of work, and not always successful, to keep correcting it.
...oh...I guess if you actually buy comb for them to live in that may not be as much of an issue- I've never known anyone in my area that DIDN'T keep top bar hives...

[Dnderhead]

I want to save the little buggers from certain death. If I git some use from them good if not that is ok .

[rangitang]

If you want to save them from certain death put them in any box and feed 50/50 sugar syrup until you can evaluate them, are they queenright etc. Feed syrup out of jar inverted with holes punched in the tin lid.

[blanikdog]

If you want to shift hives you have to move them at least a couple of miles AT NIGHT, or for a smal distance slowly move them toward the new location about FOUR feet every four or five days, preferably at night again. They get very confused with a small move and will continue to come back to the old site. They'll do that anyway with a four foot move, but can eventually find the hive. When they settle down move the buggers again until you have them where you want them.

blanik

Edited for clarity

[Dnderhead]

Thanks for info. just want to give them a new home where they wont be disturbed , I git along with all the little creachers. Iv been around
bees but never took care of them,Iv put hives back together after bares knocked them over, we git along just fine.maybe I dont taste good to them

[rangitang]

I wonder how bee pollen would do as a nutrient as well as a source of wild yeasts.

I've used it in meads with good results. However once I used I bunch that I'd collected from our hives that also had lots of propolis mixed in, and it seemed to inhibit fermentation.

Propolis kills bacteria, virus and fungus and will have a very negative effect on the yeasts being a fungus and their development in brew. My experience brewing mead has me boiling the wort to kill foreign yeasts that can give a poor taste to the mead and can produce the most sickening gut ache among other distasteful things. The traditional recipe for mead however that is the same from Pacific to Atlantic across the entire land mass calls for using as a nutrient pollen, but not simply loose pollen but beebread, the pollen that the bees store fermented with the honey and enzymes from the bees. This while labour intensive, separating the pollen plugs from the combs could get tedious, the results are worth it tho' and it is trad as hell too.