Jenever anyone?

[myles]

Do any of you drink or make Jenever?

Its rare over here, and the home made stuff I have tasted in Africa from folks with a Dutch background, has been far superior to the commercial stuff.

Years ago it may have been a rough medicinal product - but no more. At its best it is a pale golden drink simmilar to gin, but with a far more delicate and superior flavour. It is a sipping drink as opposed to a mixing drink.

It has a proportion of malted grain in it which makes the difference. Some blends - and they do tend to be mixed grain blends - contain a fair amount of malted rye.

My vapour infusion still is aimed firmly in this direction, so if any of you have recipies that have worked, both in terms of the grain bill and of the botanicals, I am definitely interested.

[Dnderhead]

you whould need a lot of exspermenting, as what I can fiend is it is made of "whiskey" (in the white) made into gin
both have a lot of leeway. both are a lot of work.

[olddog]

Jenever is just gin in the dutch language.

[kiwistiller]

Nah it's a bit different, mostly due to not starting with a neutral spirit I believe. I don't know a great amount about it but there is some basic info on wiki. I'll be most interested in any progress you make on this myles
CoatTailsKiwi

[olddog]

I am from a dutch family, and in the dutch language jenever is gin.

[Daantje]

Being from the Netherlands I have to say jenever is not gin. Since a little while jenever is a drink that is exclusively made in Holland. I don't like it. I think it is like a whisky but white, made from barley, rye and corn. It is distilled multiple times and herbs are used (best translations I could find):
absinth, koriander, kummel and St John's wort (and of course the jenever berry .

EDIT:

Modern jenever is made from anything that produced neutral.

[kiwistiller]

in the dutch language jenever is gin.

Indeed it is, and with all due respect to your heritage, they are different products.
The distinction arises from the use of malt in the grain bill.
see:
http://www.chow.com/stories/11550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenever" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

posting same time as daantje.

[Dnderhead]

Bothe right,, it is gin but made from grain mash, distilled off at 40-50% alcohol. then juniper ,spices and herbs are added.
it will be tuff becuse you have to figger out what grains to use as well as combanation of herbs.
Manufacturing Jenever
Today, jenever is distilled from a mash of malted grain, similar to the grain used for whisky production.

The two main types of jenever are categorized according to the distillation process used:
1.Oude (old) jenever, produced using the original methods, is usually pale yellow in color.


2.Jonge (young) jenever, the second type of jenever, has more grain and may include sugar-based alcohol.
In addition to different distillation methods, several blends of jenever are available, each with a different combination of berry flavorings.

Jenever is quite sweet tasting and may be aged in casks for up to three years. Under European Union regulations, only the brew made in the Netherlands and Flanders is can officially be called jenever.

[olddog]

Gin
A strong colorless alcoholic beverage made by distilling or redistilling rye or other grain spirits and adding juniper berries or aromatics such as anise, caraway seeds, or angelica root as flavoring.
[Alteration of geneva, from Dutch jenever, from Middle Dutch geniver, juniper, from Old French geneivre, from Vulgar Latin *iiniperus, from Latin iniperus.]


Dutch gin, also known as jenever or genever, evolved from malt wine spirits, and is a distinctly different drink than later styles of gin. Jenever is distilled at least partially from barley malt (and/or other grain) using a pot still, and is sometimes aged in wood. This typically lends a slightly malty flavor and/or a resemblance to whisky. Schiedam, a city in the province of South Holland, is famous for its jenever producing history. Jenever is typically lower in alcohol content and distinctly different than gins distilled strictly from neutral spirits (e.g. London dry gin). The 'oude' (old) style of Jenever, remained very popular throughout the 19th century, where it was referred to as "Holland Gin" or "Geneva Gin" in popular pre-prohibition bartender guides[7]. The column still was invented in 1832, making the distillation of neutral spirits practical. This invention would enable the creation of the "London dry" style, which was developed later in the 19th century.

[kiwistiller]

I'll see your gin definition and raise you another article about jenever

Jenever

The word Jenever [ye-nay-ver] derives from the Dutch ’Jeneverbes’, meaning Juniper. Genever is the Old Dutch (Flemish) for Jenever. Until the 19th century Dutch ’Jenever’ was called ’Genever’, so there is no real difference between the two words. The two words both describe the same product.

Jenever should not be referred to as ’Dutch Gin’; this is because another product by that name already exists. This other ’Dutch Gin’ is in fact an imitation of the English style ‘London Dry Gin’. As Jenever was created before Gin, it would be more correct to identify Gin as ’English Genever’, but as English gin doesn’t closely resemble jenever, that too is inappropriate. Therefore calling the two categories, as they are, Gin and Jenever, is a less strenuous, and more exact practice.

While Gin can be easily simplified as a diluted neutral spirit which is then flavoured with botanicals, Jenever is far more complicated. Jenever involves the blending of two things, neutral grain spirit and ’Moutwijn’ (Malt wine).’Malt wine’ closely resembles whisky, which is also made from a mash. The ’Malt wine’ mash can consist of a mixture including any of the following: malted barley, wheat, corn or rye. Malt wine is distilled to a minimum alcoholic strength of 46% a.b.v, and a maximum alcoholic strength of 48% a.b.v.

It should also be noted that the Dutch word ’Wijn’, although commonly translated as ’wine’, also refers to other types of alcoholic product, not just wine from grapes.

Once the ’Moutwijn’ is distilled, part of it is distilled again with botanicals; another part is redistilled as it is (i.e. with no botanicals). The two distillates are then recombined, then blended with ’neutral spirit’ (from grain, or molasses). The ratio of ’moutwijn’ to ’neutral spirit’ determines amongst other things what type of jenever the end product will be.

from http://web.archive.org/web/200707151731 ... enever.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[olddog]

Raise you and see you

Jenever (also known as junever, genievre, genever, jeniever, peket or in England as Holland gin), is the juniper-flavored and strongly alcoholic traditional liquor of the Netherlands, Belgium and Northern France (Nord département), from which gin evolved.[1] Believed to have been invented by a Dutch chemist and alchemist named Sylvius de Bouve (in Latin: Franciscus Sylvius), it was first sold as a medicine in the late 16th century [2]. In the 17th century it became more popular for its flavor. Traditional jenever is still very popular in the Netherlands and Belgium. European Union regulations specify that only liquor made in these two countries, two French provinces and two German federal states can use the name jenever. [3]

Jenever was originally produced by distilling maltwine (moutwijn in Dutch) to 50% ABV. Because the resulting spirit wasn't palatable due to the lack of refined distilling techniques (only the pot still was available), herbs were added to mask the flavour [2]. The juniper berry (Jeneverbes in Dutch, which comes in its turn from the French genievre) was chosen for its alleged medicinal effects[2], hence the name jenever (and the English name Gin).

[kiwistiller]

Jenever (also known as junever, genievre, genever, jeniever, peket or in England as Holland gin), is the juniper-flavored and strongly alcoholic traditional liquor of the Netherlands, Belgium and Northern France (Nord département), from which gin evolved.[1] Believed to have been invented by a Dutch chemist and alchemist named Sylvius de Bouve (in Latin: Franciscus Sylvius), it was first sold as a medicine in the late 16th century [2]. In the 17th century it became more popular for its flavor. Traditional jenever is still very popular in the Netherlands and Belgium. European Union regulations specify that only liquor made in these two countries, two French provinces and two German federal states can use the name jenever. [3]

Jenever was originally produced by distilling maltwine (moutwijn in Dutch) to 50% ABV. Because the resulting spirit wasn't palatable due to the lack of refined distilling techniques (only the pot still was available), herbs were added to mask the flavour [2]. The juniper berry (Jeneverbes in Dutch, which comes in its turn from the French genievre) was chosen for its alleged medicinal effects[2], hence the name jenever (and the English name Gin).

Hey, thats just wiki, I sent you that one!
The Maltwine is the difference. Whereas gin uses grain neutral spirit from a column as the starting point, Jenever uses maltwine like a whisky, and pot stills to 50%, resulting in a different product.

Jenever is quite sweet tasting and may be aged in casks for up to three years.

Another difference, gin isn't aged in casks.

Jonge Jenever translates as ’young jenever’, though it refers more precisely to the newer ’style’ of jenever (post-WW2). Jonge Jenever can only contain a maximum of 15% malt wine, while at the same time having a limit of 10 grams of sugar per litre. This means that Jonge jenever is less pronounced, with regards to the taste of ’moutwijn’, while at the same time being less sweet compared with its older style counterpart.

Oude Jenever translates as ’old jenever’, though it refers more precisely to the older ’style’ of jenever (pre-WW2). Oude jenever must contain a minimum of 15% malt wine, while at the same time having a greater sugar allowance of 20 grams per litre. This means that Oude jenever is more pronounced in its ’moutwijn’ taste, and at the same time being doubly sweet.

http://web.archive.org/web/200707151731 ... enever.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
These sugar allowances are also different to gin - a london dry gin is not permitted to contain sugar.

[olddog]

Where as Bourbon, Rye, scotch, are all whiskys but made with different resouces.
Jenever and london style gins are still gins of different styles.

[kiwistiller]

Where as Bourbon, Rye, scotch, are all whiskys but made with different resouces.
Jenever and london style gins are still gins of different styles.

Well we could argue that one all day but one comes with genever written on the bottle, and one says gin

[olddog]

Since the 16th century, the Bols name has been at the center of the Netherlands' liqueur and spirits industry, specifically with respect to the production of genever, considered by some to be something of the Dutch national drink. Genever itself appeared to have developed from several different origins. Methods for the distillation of alcohol had appeared in Italy and France in the Middle Ages, with these countries' vast vineyards providing the raw materials for the creation of new types of alcoholic beverages. The use of distillation slowly spread into northern Europe, where, due to this region's lack of vineyards, methods were developed for the distillation of alcohol from grains and other sources. The new type of alcohol became known as gin, with the dryer English variant becoming the most internationally known gin type.


Geneva, Switzerland, was purportedly the site of the creation of another, sweeter tasting variant of gin, which became known as genever. Some sources trace the origins of genever to French-speaking Flanders, with the term genever derived from the French word "genièvre." In the meantime, the grain-based distillation had reached the Netherlands, where Dutch distillers developed their own recipe for gin, based on "coorn," a mash of barley malt and other grains, which was then roasted ("branden"), and mixed with water and yeast. The resulting alcohol became known as "korenbrandewijn."

Which ever way you look at it its still gin

[kiwistiller]

fair enough, I took this:

jenever is gin.

to mean that there is no distinction in products. Yes I agree they're part of the same family.

[olddog]

I think there should be enough information in this thread now for Myles to be able to make his own Jenever now.

[LWTCS]

Way to hammer that topic. Great dialog.

I'm reminded of some of the fruit wash (brandy or the like)topics.

[Daantje]

Ok, I searched some dutch sites:

The difference is in the spices and the herbs.
The alcohol method is the same. English warriors called Genever Ginnever, hence the abbriviation "gin". They drank it for courage. They took it to England, where they recreated Genever, but with other spices and herbs.

[blind drunk]

Which ever way you look at it its still gin

With a twist bd.

[myles]

Just to close this down for a bit I am going to try the following.

I will pot still a malted mixed grain bill, and will blend that 50:50 with neutral spirit from the column. That will be diluted and run through the vapour infusion still with the botanicals. There are so many variables here to experiment with so do not expect results any time soon.

Thanks for the input folks.
Myles

[adama_bill]

Found this written in a book I'm scanning through: The World Guide to Spirits - Tony Lord (1979)

In The Netherlands gin was called Hollands or Schiedam. But the English word 'gin' was derived from the common language between the Dutch and British — French. The French word for juniper is genièvre which the Dutch pronounced as genever or jenever. In turn this was corrupted by the English to ginever and finally gin.

Regards

[Boozehound]

I'm certainly no expert because I've only had Jenever a couple of times from an old Dutch sailor guy but I'd rather drink it neat rather than Gin any day. It was quite sweet, quite light and really nice. He doesn't say a lot but he said it was made from wheat.

I really don't like neat Gin.

[Dnderhead]

Much of the "neutral" is made from wheat as it does not add much flavor to the product. red wheat will/can add a bit of "spicy" flavor
as white wheat does not. some "naturals" is made of corn/maze (cheep) and can add "sweetness"

[hstuurman]

You've got diffenent types of jenever:
Grainbased or sugarbased. Earlier all jenever was made out of a mixture of grain, mostly barley, rye and corn. But wheat is also used. This is cold oude (old) jenever. This jenever
Later the dutch started to grow sugar beets, instead of importing canesugar from south america. The molasse left over was used to make cheap ethanol which was used as a base for the jenever. This is cold jonge (young) jenever.

Old jenever is a better taste, no doubt.

Read this side of a very nice old distiller in Amsterdam:http://www.de-ooievaar.nl/english/. It's based in the north corner of an old district "the Jordaan" in a Y-shaped street. On one corner you can see the still's running (in summer the doors are open), the other corner you can see the wooden barrels for aging, and the other one there is a shop. When you are in Amsterdam, go look at this place, you walk in the middle of a distillery! and you can smell the mash.
Also they make the best commercial liquor I've ever drunk.

[hstuurman]

Blowing some spirit in an old post:

Today I was making jeneveressence again, and god I love this smell, guys you need a smell-app on your PC, for this short movie:
http://s944.photobucket.com/user/hstuur ... 9.mp4.html

I filled the boiler with 2 ltr of 40% alcohol (neutral), filled the column with juniper berry's, St.John's wort, anise seeds and coriander seeds.
runned it very slow and recieved 700 ml of great essence

[Bushman]

Wow, now that's reviving an old post but 10 years ago I wouldn't have believed we would be doing the things with our computers that we now do with Skype and such. A smell app could happen in my lifetime!