Malt Extract? Real easy batches with it

[porter]

What's the feelings on using canned malt extract? If you're into production and consistent batches I've found the extract with some additional sugar to be the best. Bypasses the long mashing / malting problems with grains. And if you figure your time is worth something, the the malt extract comes out cheaper. Getting ready to order a 33lb tub, somewhere around $50. That's enough for 6, 5gal batches using an additional 5lb cane sugar per batch. The Crosby-Baker distiller yeast has been working perfectly for this and clears up to nearly a beer look in 5 days.

Main question, hear some comment on using malt extract?????

[olddog]

I have made whisky using canned malt, rolled barley, sugar and yeast, turns out quite good.

[rubber duck]

I have not used malt extract except for one time in a high gravity beer. I have had whiskey made with it and it's good.

So I guess if you can get it that cheep use it. I have considered gooseing my malt whiskeys with the stuff.

Where are you getting it that cheep? Can you post a link?

[Slow & Steady]

I like using Peated Barley. It would be nice if you could purchase peated malt extract.

S&S

[Usge]

Put 1.b or so of peated malt in a grain bag and steep it for flavor at about 170F. Then, remove the peated grain bag, bring it up to a boil and stir in your malt extract.

[mfradman]

Hey porter, do I have some questions: I ran this recipe and came up with some nice tasting whiskey, it was easy to make but certainly at a higher cost, I used this recipe
I started this mash on 02-16-10, ran it 02.27/10
It is 7# dark malt extract
5# sugar
1# roasted barley
6 gallons water
Start SG 160
The temp has been kept at about 73 degrees
It is under a lock and I have not stirred it, or even opened it to air.
I took a reading yesterday and the SG was at 1.10
What is the difference between malt and malt extract?
Is 7 pounds to much?
Did you take a reading before you racked?
A confused Radman

[Nies]

Hey radman,

To answer your question, the difference between malt, and malt extract, it is this, malt is a barley, wheat, or a cereal grain in general that has been germinated and then kilned to stop the growth process. This makes it possible for brewers and distillers to convert the starches in the grains to fermentable sugars. Malt extract, is malt that has already gone through the mashing process. It is wort that has been condensed to a thick liquid syrup or dehydrated to a powder. So malt extract is more processed, or processed to completion and the dehydrated. Malt still has to be fully processed to become wort.

[mfradman]

Hey Nies, thanks for that great explanation.
Radman

[Samohon]

Hey porter, do I have some questions: I ran this recipe and came up with some nice tasting whiskey, it was easy to make but certainly at a higher cost, I used this recipe
I started this mash on 02-16-10, ran it 02.27/10
It is 7# dark malt extract
5# sugar
1# roasted barley
6 gallons water
Start SG 160
The temp has been kept at about 73 degrees
It is under a lock and I have not stirred it, or even opened it to air.
I took a reading yesterday and the SG was at 1.10
What is the difference between malt and malt extract?
Is 7 pounds to much?
Did you take a reading before you racked?
A confused Radman

Would love to know how this turns out man..

Regards...

S...

[mfradman]

Hey Swill Maker, I like the flavor of this run much more than the few other batches I have cobbled together. The only thing I was unhappy about was the ending SG 1.10. Would anyone recommend adding anything to keep it going to 990?

I picked up the stuff for the next batch, this time I am using 7 pounds of Brewcraft light malt extract and 1 pound of light roasted barley, along with 10 pounds sugar. I think the rest of the recipe will be the same as above. Should I cook the grain?

[Nies]

Radman, you could use a bug to sour the mash. This would do two things, one the mash would sour and two the sp would drop some more. You most likely have hit the bottom of the attenuation ladder with yeast. You could try putting some champagne yeast into your fermenter. Champagne yeast has a higher tollerance for alcohol, but if you are using any darker grain, you will have a difficult time getting below 1.00 SP. The bugs by the way are able to eat different sugars than the yeast, enabling them make a beer more alcoholic after the yeast is done. This is a good idea for whiskey mashes as it allows a guy to use every last little bit of fermentable sugar and aid in a certain complexity that is hard to achieve otherwise.

[Usge]

In the batches of beer I've made using extract and grain, they never finish at zero. It's quite common for them to finish at 1010 or even 1015. There are always some residual unfermentable sugars that are meant to give the wort body and mouthfeel. This can be especially true if you use processed malts (like crystal malt or chocolate/very darkmalts). Crystal malt is made by heating the malt in an oven so it converts starches to sugar inside the grain..then they keep heating it until it's denatured. So, it's very sweet, but completely devoid of enzymes. It's a steeping grain to add sweetness, flavor and body to the final wort. Same for some of the very dark/roasted and other malts. Because of their residual unfermentable sugars, they aren't ever going to finish dry to zero (or below). Nothing to worry about.

[mfradman]

Hey guy's, thanks for the great info. This is a really nice forum, I can't believe the quick response and quality info.
Radman

[kazanas]

Good day boys
I have a question. Is malt extract converted to sugar or not?
I mean, can I use it directly with water and yeast or need something else?

[kiwistiller]

Yup, use away, it's converted.

[kazanas]

Thanks a lot Kiwistiller!

[goose eye]

it gonna want to puke

so im tole

[Dnderhead]

id use the lighter malts.the darker ones can have a lot of sugar that wont ferment and as Goose says
they will/can puke.

[kiwistiller]

I think Barney was boiling his extract washes to get a hot break, and reduce the foaming problem later. Haven't done it myself though.

[porter]

Well, since I sort of started this thread I ought to put in something.
Rule of thumb on malt extract is jsut the same as for sugar wash. 2lbs of malt extract per gallon will yield approx. 10% alch mix BUT you have to use a good champagne yeast to hit this mark. What you are making is an Imperial class beer, so beer yeast won't work. I wouldn't add any cane sugar to the mix. If you want to kick up the alch add brewers corn sugar. It directly converts to alch without any residual flavors. Cane sugar has to go through conversion and has a fermented flavor all it's own.
Have 3 gal. @ 100prf been setting on toasted oak for a year now. As with all grain based products, it takes a long time to age out.
Regarding light, medium, dark extract, there aren't any adjuncts in the extracts. It's a matter of how hot they were vacume evaporated at. Color is the only difference. Don't use hopped extracts though.

You can use all the adjuncts you want in order to get some flavor to this; Roasted barley, Chocolate barley, etc. But don't use Crystal grain as it can carry over the sweet flavor if you pull the tails down too far.

[DrMalt]

Adding Beano or GA-100 will break up most of the complex sugars in malt wort and reduce them to glucose which will make them fermentable and allow the yeast to finish the wash to 1.000 or below. I'm not sure about the GA-100 as it is a Gluco-amylase and this may not get 100% of the Oligosaccharides but Beano is Alpha Galactosidase which will reduce best at 132F to 140F.

[blind drunk]

Hey DrMalt, how much beano per 23 liters of wort and if you add at 132-140, for how long? Like 90 minutes?

Thanks,

bd

[DrMalt]

Hey DrMalt, how much beano per 23 liters of wort and if you add at 132-140, for how long? Like 90 minutes?

Thanks,

bd

I wish I could say for sure. It depends on the gravity and concentration of Oligosaccharides of course. That is dependent on the mashing process. I would try 6 crushed tabs to start. This enzyme will remain active for some time below 132F but above 140f it will be denatured quickly. I would leave it in the optimum temp zone for 1 hour and that should do it. Again it's not a definitive answer and trials are needed. Either via a forced ferment or try 6 caps this time for an hour. If it finishes at 1.000 this time try 5 caps next time. Let us know what your gravities are and what malt you experiment with.

[grizzlypee]

Nies
Had a question about the "bug" you speak of. Are you talking about leaving the lid off for a bit to get a secondary infection? Sure would like to hear more.
Grizzlypee

This might help some readers too.


Weight per U.S. gallon
dried malt extract:
very approximately 5.8 lbs. (0.69 kg/L)
liquid malt extract:
very approximately 12.0 lbs. (1.43 kg/L)

Weight per 1 cup (8 fl. oz.)
dried malt extract: very approximately 5.8 oz. (0.69 g/mL)
liquid malt extract: very approximately. 12.1 oz. (1.4 g/mL)

Volume of 1.0 lb.
dried malt extract: very approximately 2.75 cups or 22 fl. oz.
liquid malt extract: very approximately 1.3 cups or 10.6 fl oz

[HookLine]

Recently made some whiskey using barley malt extract from the supermarket. Just that for the first run. There was still lots of flavour left behind in the backset so I mixed plain sugar in it and did a second ferment, and that worked out pretty well. Combined both low wines and did a spirit run to get several litres. Hearts-tails cut was at around 63%. If I was doing it again I would have cut a touch earlier, maybe 65%.

Still ageing on oak, but tasted pretty promising out of the still.

All barley malt extract ferments foam and puke like nothing I have experienced before. Don't say you weren't warned.

[porter]

Since I started this line, might as well weight in on results.
I 'm not sure where you found 'barley extract' at a grocery store, only brew shops have it around here.

I've been sampling out my 100% malt extract batch that's been setting on oak for 12 months. Everyone really want's to see it on the shelf around my circles. Someone said on a professional forum they couldn't get anything tasty out of extract. To me there's more taste in this than a grain batch.
When this was made I was still taking cuts down low, around 40%.
....Many batches of various things later.........
I'm now getting ready to make another larger run and will cut at the standard 63-65% mark. Then back-mix using some of the 65-40% for flavors. Ordering a 33lb container of plain light extract for this. I should be able to get 17gal. of wash, yielding around 4-5gal of finished product, depending on how much of my flavoring cuts to the hearts.
And that will go into stainless with toasted cherry wood for another year.

[rubber duck]

Your going to get 4 or 5 gallons of finished product from a 17 gallon wash? Kinda seems like more malt extract then water. What would that be if you where using grain 5lb per gallon?

[HookLine]

Since I started this line, might as well weight in on results.
I 'm not sure where you found 'barley extract' at a grocery store, only brew shops have it around here.

Don't know where you are, but in Australia the Woolies food supermarkets carry it in the jam and honey section. About $9 for a kg tin, very sweet and sticky. Not sure of the fermentables %, but I just did a straight substitute for sugar by weight, and seemed to get a pretty good yield.

[porter]

Since I started this line, might as well weight in on results.
I 'm not sure where you found 'barley extract' at a grocery store, only brew shops have it around here.

Don't know where you are, but in Australia the Woolies food supermarkets carry it in the jam and honey section. About $9 for a kg tin, very sweet and sticky. Not sure of the fermentables %, but I just did a straight substitute for sugar by weight, and seemed to get a pretty good yield.

That's interesting. The only way we get it here in the USA is by 3.3lb (1.5kg) tin. About $13. It takes 2 tins to yield a 5% wash.
I own a home brew supply shop so buying wholesale makes it nice. Little side note. I have had wine folks with bad batches wanting to know what to do with them. Answer it....we can help dispose of that old product just fine.

Don't bother trying to use the specialty grains like crystal, unmalted barley, chocolate grain, etc. it just gets cooked out of the mix. Hops though are starting to be used in a malt wash to make a beery whiskey. Rouge Brewery in Oregon is making their Rouge Ocean aged whiskey from their surplus Dead Guy Ale.

[HookLine]

I just did a straight substitute for sugar by weight, and seemed to get a pretty good yield.

Of course, it was less than plain sugar, but was still pretty decent.

I own a home brew supply shop so buying wholesale makes it nice.

Wish you lived down the road.

Little side note. I have had wine folks with bad batches wanting to know what to do with them. Answer it....we can help dispose of that old product just fine.

Very community minded of you.