Malt Recommendations for Scotch?

[Pamulli]

Does anyone have any recommendations for what type of malt to use for a Scotch style single malt? I've almost got my new still ready and wanted to see what others have found to work well for this type of run. I tend to like the smoother scotch's like Balvenie, Glenmorangie and Macallan. I've seen some mention of Maris Otter and Golden Promise for Scotch and wondered if anyone has any other favorites? Also, would you mix different malts to add flavor? I'll be aging it in oak barrels and adding a bit of sherry to help the flavor.
I know trial and error is the best way to determine what I like, but funds are a little limited and I've already done a couple of not very successful runs so I was hoping to try something that others have had success with.

Thanks

[Dnderhead]

the cheapest light or base malt you can fiend, the same for malt extracts.
you will need to smoke the grain , or add smoke flavoring to git scotch.

[kiwistiller]

If you don't want to pay for peated malt, you might like to investigate Harry's peat essence. here's a snip of it from way back - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=875 (read down)

[Nies]

Another Idea, I do this on occasion with good results. Take Maris-Otter(British Two-Row Pale malt) and spread it out over a steal screen. Use as much as the screen will hold, but the layer should be no more than a 1/2 inch deep or 10-11 MM. Lite up the weber gill to get some coals going. And then separate the coals so that you have a dead spot in the middle of the grill. You don't need much heat so you will not need a lot of coals. If you want to do a peat smoke than you can get some at a local garden shop. Just do not get the prepackaged or mixed versions. It should be a dark black in almost clay like lumps and it will smell just like crap. Make sure that it is moist enough to just be easily lumped and than stick two golf ball sized ball of it on the coals on either side. Wait about a half hour for the smoke to start rolling and then place your screen of malt on the grill and cover. I try to keep the temperature at about 140F. Vary the time for stronger or lighter peat smoke flavor. Note of warning: Peat smoke is very strong, so start out with only little time over the smoke and then work your way up to what you want. I like to use beech wood as well, this has a softer taste and aroma to it. It might also be good for scotch mashes. S.

[Pamulli]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not a big fan of the peaty flavor, but I'm sure the Scotch's I like have some level of peat, just not all that over powering. For the next run I'll probably just buy some already peated malt, but I definitely like the idea of smoking the barley to enhance the flavors. I guess I'll have to break out the old smoker and give it a try.

[Samogon]

My plan is to buy some peated malt at the brew store to mix with regular 2-row base malt.

What percentage do you guys think would result in moderate smoke? The homebrew guidelines recommend never exceeding 20% on smoked malt, and I know from experience that smoky flavors are quite volatile and WILL come through the still into the whiskey. So I'm looking for a range where the smoke will be present, but not overpowering. Something less than Islay, but still recognizably scotch. Maybe this is a meaningless question without knowing how smoky the commercial malts are. Anyone know if Scotch distilleries use 100% peated malt?

[thebrewer]

dude, i'm going through the same process right now, though aiming for a reasonable peatiness

what i've discovered : the 'islay' malt grains are peated at around 50ppm. The peated brewers malt you can buy (ie, bairds peated brewing malt) is not even close (i've heard a few numbers bandied about, but generally 4-6ppm). So you could use 100% off the shelf peat smoked malt and not get remotely close to an islay. HIstorically at least, distilleries used 100% peated malt as this was the source of fuel for drying the malt. It wasn't until the 1960's and the introduction of coke as an alternative fuel that non-peated whiskies appeared.

If you want a lightly peated whisky, try malt under 15ppm.

I know bairds also make a range of distilling malts with higher peat levels, but I don't know if you can buy them.

I'm trying to peat my own malt, but without equipment to measure the phenol levels... its really going to be experimental...could be a peat monster...

[Dnderhead]

""distilleries used 100% peated malt as this was the source of fuel for drying the malt. ""
they still do "most of what you buy Is blended, with other grain alcohols.to lighten them as most do not like the heavy peat.
so basically they run off X gallons of peated,age and mix with X amount of unpeated that has been adged. this goes for most all
unless you buy singel barrol,singel peated malt.

If i was to make "scotch" id not be concerned with over peating ,,Id make a batch of peated and "age" and make a batch of unpeated and age,
then "blend" to suite.

[thebrewer]

If i was to make "scotch" id not be concerned with over peating ,,Id make a batch of peated and "age" and make a batch of unpeated and age,
then "blend" to suite.

That makes a lot of sense really. You could well end up with a whole range of whiskies then... depending on how you blended... whiskies for different days, guests, weather...
Personally i find the idea of having a whole shelf of single malts to be mighty fine

[jaerp]

Buying real peated malt made from real British base malts can make the price of copper look reasonable

I've been thinking about making 'scotch' using simply a solid base malt--i.e. Great Western 2-row--then passing the vapor through a sachet of peated malt. Similar in concept to vapor infused gins (which I personally love, and I'm sure that's not the right name for the technique). Anyway, haven't tried it yet, but it's on my list of things to do.

[Dnderhead]

you can make your own
weigh the grain, dampen the grain then dry the grain over a smoky fire until back to the same weight as it was.
you can use peat or be adventurous and try others.

[Coon-ass]

I am curious if one were to buy malted barley and smoke it over these, if you would achieve the desired result. Not sure.
http://www.irishturfdistributors.com/

[crazyx2]

That's an interesting product none the less Coon, I wonder if they ship it from Ireland

[loneswinger]

I have bought a total of 2-55lb bags of peated malt. They aren't cheap when purchased ~ $70... Well they kinda are when you add it all up, ~ 25 L of fine 'scotch' that I would have easily payed $40 per 0.75 L several years ago.
I would say that the peat level is a little less then Talisker when made with 100% peated malt that I have bought. Don't know the ppm phenol level, it isn't listed and I never looked it up. Ordered it from the local home brew shop. From your taste in scotch, Glenmorangie and Macallan, I would recommend to not use much peat. Maybe in the 1:3 or 1:4 range when mixed with plain 2-row. In fact, I think if you went 100% 2 row with no peat and added some sherry soaked oak you would get something close after aging. The longer the aging the better of course, but I recommend at least 8 months which is impossible when first starting I know, but it really gets good after the first year or so.


I love the peat though so I shoot for it. Just cracking the peated malt makes my mouth water, just thinking about cracking the grain makes my mouth water. Haven't tried any of the home peating techniques even though I would like to. Man I want some scotch. Oh wait, there is 6 gallons of it at my feet.

-Loneswinger

[davidwh]

K,

so i'm no expert on the art of sctoch making but...seems everyone is f'ing about with smoking levels..when u consider what your saving wouldn/t a test kit be a reasonable investment? might only need to use it 4 time to define your taste then convert that to a process/volume then share here...every one is happy!

will this do the trick?

http://www.gogenlab.com/products/produc ... -test-kits

dave

[Pamulli]

I have bought a total of 2-55lb bags of peated malt. They aren't cheap when purchased ~ $70... Well they kinda are when you add it all up, ~ 25 L of fine 'scotch' that I would have easily payed $40 per 0.75 L several years ago.
I would say that the peat level is a little less then Talisker when made with 100% peated malt that I have bought. Don't know the ppm phenol level, it isn't listed and I never looked it up. Ordered it from the local home brew shop. From your taste in scotch, Glenmorangie and Macallan, I would recommend to not use much peat. Maybe in the 1:3 or 1:4 range when mixed with plain 2-row. In fact, I think if you went 100% 2 row with no peat and added some sherry soaked oak you would get something close after aging. The longer the aging the better of course, but I recommend at least 8 months which is impossible when first starting I know, but it really gets good after the first year or so.
-Loneswinger

I am planning on fermenting a batch today and was thinking about doing the peated malt separately and then blending to taste. I have 20lbs of Golden Promise and 10 pounds of peated. The peated came from Rebel Brewer and they say it is a medium peat. I was also planning on adding some sherry for flavoring. I'll report back how it turns out.

What type of yeast are you using?

[loneswinger]

I have used coopers ale yeast and baker's yeast, both with good results. I don't know enough about yeasts to know what flavors they will impart on the resulting spirit. I can promise that it won't be bad with either one of these. It could be better with a different strain but I don't know.

It sounds like your 3 to 1 grain mix will be about right, but if you want to ferment and distill them separately that will give you some flexibility. I have had no problems mashing 100% peated if you are at all worried about how peat might effect enzyme activity. If you could find some used oak casks that contained sherry and aged it on wood from them it would be much better than adding sherry I think. Every time that I have ever added sherry or port or raisins or any of that stuff to my pot distilled spirit I would always later regret it. You just never know how it would have turned out without the flavorings. What oak are you using? This is important, maybe most important.

I can tell you how I distill it: I try to mimic how the commercial scotch distilleries do it except that I take about a 5% foreshots cut that I ditch every spirit run. Then recycle the heads and tails from each run by just dumping them back into the low wines container. I keep the low wines about 30%, if it begins to climb in ABV (after adding heads and tails) I add water to dilute it back down. There is usually a separation layer of oil or something on top of the low wines. I have read not to run these in the spirit still so instead of decanting the low wines to charge the still I siphon from below them.

Don't know what your distilling strategy is but I would recommend some variation of this. That can wait till you get there I guess.

Keep posting on this thread how it is going. I would like to know how this turns out. I think it is nearly impossible that it will taste bad, but will watch anyway.

-Loneswinger

[Pamulli]

I'm planning on using Scotch Ale yeast and I have two oak barrels from Oak Barrels ltd. I charred the 5L barrel myself and I have a 10L that is toasted. I am planning on putting some in the 5L and some in a jar with oak sticks so I will have something to compare. This will only be my 3rd run and my first on this particular still, and also my first attempt at fermenting off the grain in a mash tun so it is very much a learning process. I chucked the first two runs because I thought I screwed them up by letting yeast get in the boiler, but after tasting some other white dog I think my first two runs would have been fine. Oh well.

I'll definitely post back how it turns out and I appreciate your suggestions.

[loneswinger]

From what I have heard. Those 5L barrels will oak your spirit real fast so be careful. After about 30 days you might want to pull it out of there and finish it in glass.

Good Luck,

-Loneswinger

[Pamulli]

I just opened my bag of peated barley and there were bugs in it. That's the second bag of peated that I've gotten that had bugs and they were from two different suppliers. Is that common with Barley or am I just getting it from a bad place? I chucked the first one because it was really infested bad, but I am running this one anyway.

[loneswinger]

I don't think it is very common. I have been brewing and distilling for about 7 years and have never had an insect infestation in a bag of malted barley. The occasional rodent hair maybe, but never insects. The malting houses have very strict sanitary policies and I seriously doubt that the bags are leaving there with insect problems. Most likely, the supplier that you are buying from has an insect problem where they are storing the bags. I would go somewhere else. That sucks.

-Loneswinger

[Pamulli]

I don't think it is very common. I have been brewing and distilling for about 7 years and have never had an insect infestation in a bag of malted barley. The occasional rodent hair maybe, but never insects. The malting houses have very strict sanitary policies and I seriously doubt that the bags are leaving there with insect problems. Most likely, the supplier that you are buying from has an insect problem where they are storing the bags. I would go somewhere else. That sucks.

-Loneswinger

Well so far two different online stores have sent me ones with bugs and none of the local shops around me carry the peated stuff. I emailed Rebel Brewer to see what they would say about it.

Thanks,

[plaztikjezuz]

I just opened my bag of peated barley and there were bugs in it. That's the second bag of peated that I've gotten that had bugs and they were from two different suppliers. Is that common with Barley or am I just getting it from a bad place? I chucked the first one because it was really infested bad, but I am running this one anyway.

they are called malt beetles.
don't worry about it, the malt is fine, it just has some extra protein.

malt beetles are very common in malt, all malt has them, the fact that the smoked malt had an excessive amount also does not surprise me. smoked malt sits around and that will give the beetles time to breed.

i am also not suprised both stores had the same problem, there is only one whole sale distributor for TF malt in the USA. that would be the country malt group.
http://www.fawcett-maltsters.co.uk/export.htm

[Bull Rider]

Freezing your grain will kill the bugs. I put my grain outside for a few days now that winter temperatures are here. Just keep the grain dry.

It was below zero Fahrenheit the other night, that works.

Bull.

[DAveCuds]

I am also a scotch lover and would like to attempt my own. I really love the smokiness of peat as well. Howevere i am in a bind. I am thinking about malting my own barely but i have no access to Peat here. Has anyone experimented smoking the malt with other things that can closely resemble peat?

If so, i would love to hear all about it

[Dnderhead]

Please,,when asking for help finding something give you general area.
we dont need your address, but "I live in north/east/west/south___________?"

[DAveCuds]

Not sure but if that was @ me Dnder but i live in Colombia. I was thinking about smoking the malt with ordinary wood. Im sure this will impart some smokiness no?

[Dnderhead]

yes that will help, as for using wood (or any thing else) weigh the grain,,dampen grain,
smoke grain over a cool smoky fire,until it is back to the original wight.
as for wood,you can use any thing that is used in smoking meat/fish etc..
you might have a favorite.

[loneswinger]

Not sure but if that was @ me Dnder but i live in Colombia. I was thinking about smoking the malt with ordinary wood. Im sure this will impart some smokiness no?

You can, but it won't taste peaty, just smoky. Not all that different from just using toasted/charred wood in your spirit. I was not very impressed with my smoked grain trials and will probably just stick to peated malt, unless I can buy real peat bricks to smoke the grain with. (note it is the peat fuel, not the peat moss) If there is a place that imports malted barley that you can purchase, chances are they can also order you some peated malt.

Cheers,

-Loneswinger

[bencornish]

Follow this thread ->
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=19353

I got some really good results before aging... was quite happy with it.
Im going to Try a all Peat Malt now too and age it too for later blending..