Where did I go wrong?

[Cackalacky]

Hey everybody. I hope I don't get flamed for my crude technique here but I have what I think is a legit question. Hopefully some of the "old-timers" will chime in for me...

Like everybody else, I've been lurking and reading and rereading and rereading again. Now, I have my first "where did I go wrong" question.

There's so much to learn about distilling I thought I'd break it down into its component parts and start a step at a time. Grabbed the basic sugar wash recipe (5 gals water, 3 lbs granulated sugar, one packet Red Star yeast) and cooked it up, nice and sterile and everything. Poured one batch into a carboy and a second into a bucket, both fitted with three piece bubblers. Set 'em up in the crawlspace with a heating pad underneath and for five days the carboy bubbled like mad, though the bucket never really did. But, opening the lid on the bucket showed it to be bubbling at the same rate as the carboy.

I should mention, I'm kind of a trial-by-fire learner. So, I got the wash started and then set out to build the still while the wash cooked. Only then did I buy a hydrometer, not understanding that it's a "before and after" kinda thing. As a result, I have no idea what the percentage of alcohol is in my wash. But, it did bubble like mad. When I finally measured both batches with the hydrometer, they were reading a SG of around 1.065, after the fermentation had mostly stalled and the yeast was settling in the bottom.

So, I have this wash, I've twisted up a lovely 1/4" coil for my soon-to-be Bokabob, I have a 12qt stainless pot ready to go and I go down to my local industrial supply house (where I have an account, fer cryin' out loud) thinking I can just pick me up a nice three foot section of 2" type M copper. They tell me it's gotta come from the warehouse in a far away town and that I have to buy the entire 10' stick, at $8 a foot. Needless to say, I've got some calls in to a few plumber buddies of mine, though I know it'll cost me some product...

None of them called me back tonight so I start getting a bit itchy. I had read somewhere that I could just use an inverted lid on a pot and distill some rotgut booze, so I start looking at the Missus's Crockpot thinking "hmmmmmmmm"... (The following is the part that's likely to get me accused of making cellhouse shine, but it seems to me like a legit way to squeeze a bit of hooch out of a wash, even if it is a bit crude.)

I ladled off some of the bucket wash into the Crockpot and cranked it up and then started wondering how the heck I was gonna get rid of the head. I recalled that the ethanol doesn't start boiling until 172 degrees F and thought, hey, why don't I just put the ol' BBQ probe in there and leave the lid cracked until it gets to that money temperature and then put the lid on, put my ice in the lid and collect the prize until it gets to 190F? Every so often, as it cooked for about 45 minutes, I put the probe in and watched it steadily climb, while the bowl was ever so slightly collecting what I hoped was the magical elixir. When it got to about 188F, I lowered the temp and never let it get above 190F. I wasn't trying to be greedy, I just figured I could catch it all until it got to 190F.

I even put one of my copper pot scrubbers, destined to be the column packing, into the wash to smooth the flavor.

Once the alarm went off, I killed the heat, shook the lid into the bowl and pulled out about an ounce of clear, sweet liquid (from about a quart of wash). I cooled it and took the first sip with baited breath. What I hoped would be a hefty sting with a bit of a yeasty twang was nothing more than WATER! (with a yeasty twang)

Where the hell did my booze go?

[kiwistiller]

into the air by the sounds of it lucky you didn't have a fire on your hands.

[Cackalacky]

lucky you didn't have a fire on your hands.

From a Crockpot? Where's the fire risk? Am I missing something?

[Dnderhead]

First at 3LB. to the gal. whould be about 4% wash. next you stopped at 1.065,not finished , so you probably only had 2% wash (I did not figure it out)
you probably cooked that off in the first 2-5 minutes with the lid open.

say it was 3% wash and you had 2 qt. ,,,, 2qt= 64oz. ,, 3% of 64= 1.9 0z total alcohol

came back to say something is not right: 3lb sugar in 5 gallons = 4% with a SG of 1.028 how you git finished at 1.065?

[Cackalacky]

Dnderhead, Thanks for chiming in.

I'm trying to sort this out. I've seen that temperature isn't an absolute indicator but how could I have cooked off the alcohol, no matter how small the volume, below the boiling point?

Hopefully, even though I've made a mistake, this will help my process in the future.

[Cackalacky]

3lb sugar in 5 gallons = 4% with a SG of 1.028 how you git finished at 1.065?

I'm not sure... (!)

Is "I don't know" a reasonable answer? I just checked it again, thinking that perhaps it was bubbles on the hydrometer. It seems to be going UP??? Completely bubble free, it's now reading 1.072. WTF???

[Cackalacky]

Completely bubble free, it's now reading 1.072. WTF???

Aha! Not so much of a mystery there. I took it off of the heating pad to ladle it into the Crockpot. The temp has changed and, with it, the SG. Should I also mention that I'm half a mile above sea level?

[Dnderhead]

your still not right, it should have started at 1,024SG . and , it should finish at or below 1. (the hotter the wash the lower it will read)
you got to be reading that wrong.
just like water,only more so, alcohol evaporates even at room temps. the hotter it is the faster it evaporates.
you simply evaporeted all the alcohol out (what little there was) into the air.

[kiwistiller]

lucky you didn't have a fire on your hands.

From a Crockpot? Where's the fire risk? Am I missing something?

maybe crockpot means something else to me...

[blanikdog]

Great explanation of where he went wrong, dunder. As soon as I saw 3lb sugar/5gallons of water I thought uh oh.

blanik

[Cackalacky]

OK, now I'm a little less confused but also a little more so. My paltry amount of alcohol evaporated. I'm guessing there's really no way to gauge the cuts with a jailhouse setup like mine. Hopefully, I'll get my hands on some 2" copper in the next few days and do it right.

As the the SG, I don't know what's going on there. It's a new "True Brew" hydrometer from the local brewers store. In clear water, it floats at exactly 1. In my wash, it floats at 1.070, or 9.4 % potential ABV, or 24 sugar ounces per US Gal. Unfortunately, like I said, I didn't test it before I put it away so I have no idea where I started, at least in regards to the SG.

While it might be a bit heartbreaking, I have no qualms about pitching both batches and starting over. More importantly, if I've gained a bit of working knowledge then it's no waste at all.

I'm not here to make prison hooch. I'm here to develop a working knowledge of a distinguished art form. The designs and the ingredients have gotten so refined, due in no small part to the communities online like this one, that it's tough for a Noob to just dig in and figure it out so, please, bear with me.

Blanik, why did you think "uh oh as soon as you saw 5 Gals water / 3 Lbs sugar? That recipe is everywhere on the net and all over this site.

I'm starting to feel a bit like I did at 8 or so. Wander into a room filled with adults, ask a question that they think is hilarious but I think is quite relevant. Stand there waiting as the adults all roll on the floor and backslap one another, until finally walking out of the room with no answer and feeling like an idiot. I've read thousands of pages on this site and the forum. I didn't just plunder in here and ask a question that's in every thread. I'm trying to expand my knowledge and, simultaneously, expand the searchable database in this forum. Am I to be excluded from the club?

[Whitedog]

First of all, I do not beleive that you have read on this site a recipe that calls for 3 pounds (1.36kg) of sugar to 5 gallons (~20 liters) of water. Secondly, if you are getting that high of a reading on your hydrometer then you added much more than you are saying. Typically I shoot for 2 lbs to the gallon of water which gives me an OG (Original Gravity or starting SG) of ~1.080. You might need to ensure that you understand how to read your hydrometer.

About the evaporation, think of when you run a hot bath for the misses.... the steam rising off the water is not due to the water being at boiling.... the same with alcohol, vapors start coming off very early which is why the system has to be closed but not restricted otherwise pressure will build up..... well anyway, thats just some of the problems you've just encountered.

About the 8 year old in a room full of adults comment, you pretty much nailed that one! I don't think you will be excluded if an attitude isn't developed. I have seen these guys display alot of patience and guidance for those willing to help themselves, until they develop an attitude....

Hope this helps you.... WD

[Dnderhead]

trying to answer your questions,, with a still it is closed,with a vent, so the alcohol evaporates condense and runs back into the pot, until it has enough vapors to escape. then you condense them (lower their temps. back to liquid) a still is never 100% efficient at removing all the alcohol out of the wash,
their will be a bit left you cant git out,maybe 1%.

(meanwhile study up on reading that hydrometer. you cant be doing it right or you don't have the right one?)
if you place it in water it should read "0" as you add sugar the reading should increase(float higher)(this is referred to as"OG"),,,, then as the yeast "eat" the sugar
it should decrease (sink)back to "0" (this is referred to s "FG")

[Cackalacky]

OK, now I see my error. In reading WhiteDog's post I realized that I had the recipe right, but typed it wrong. It was 5 lbs sugar in 3 Gals water. I can't seem to locate the formula for calculating the original SG but now it should make more sense. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I'm certainly not trying to get an attitude, more like I got my panties in a toss because I felt like everyone was making fun of me. I now see that it was my own error that caused the consternation.

I understand the idea of steaming away the vapor, which is where my booze went, and I will take advantage of in my Bokabob column. What's lacking is an understanding of the basics of the distillation process. Fortunately that's building, thanks to all you guys who chimed in to help.

I know there are very few here who condone the use of a "jailhouse" still, but I'm still curious about its operation, if for no other reason than to understand the basics. Is there any way to separate the cuts in this type of rig? Or, do the prisoners just drink all of what's been collected?

Also, if someone could give me the formula for any way to determine the ABV of my wash, I'd be much obliged.

[Dnderhead]

so that should have started with )OG of 1.068 and when you ran it it was 1.065 so you fiend the difference =3 x .129=.387% alcohol
their is another way of fingering it )OG-FG=__ dev by 7.55=alcohol not sure witch way is closest.
as far as the way you did it there is no good way to make cuts. and if you got it right this time you had little or no alcohol in the wash.
you either did not wait for it to finish (that's what it sounds like because you say it is still changing) or it stalled.
a wash can take two days or two months to finish,depending what is in it and how much sugar and the temp.,most try for a week.
that way you distill and make wash once a week/week end.if the wash/mash that we want,takes longer then most make more than one on alternate days/weeks. This is saying if you "love exotic berry love potion", but it takes two weeks to finish but you want to run once a week , you just make a wash every week even if the first one not finished, the following week you have one waiting.but you still make another.that way you always have one to run.
some do this even if it only takes a week to ferment,that gives it a week to "clear".

[Cackalacky]

Thanks Dnderhead.

Another related question... I know that yeast is more active while it's reproducing so that would explain the mad bubbling. Now, I'm getting a weak burp every thirty seconds or so from my carboy. And, it looks like there's quite a lot of yeast settled in the bottom. Can I expect fermenting to continue, even though it seems to be slowing dramatically?

[Dnderhead]

yep just let go untill it stops,most wate a bit longer than that to let it "clear" (yeast goes to the bottom )( sometimes cooked yeast can add a off flavor..)

[Cackalacky]

Thanks again.

[blanikdog]

... Blanik, why did you think "uh oh as soon as you saw 5 Gals water / 3 Lbs sugar? That recipe is everywhere on the net and all over this site.
I'm starting to feel a bit like I did at 8 or so.
Wander into a room filled with adults, ask a question that they think is hilarious but I think is quite relevant. Stand there waiting as the adults all roll on the floor and backslap one another, until finally walking out of the room with no answer and feeling like an idiot. I've read thousands of pages on this site and the forum. I didn't just plunder in here and ask a question that's in every thread. I'm trying to expand my knowledge and, simultaneously, expand the searchable database in this forum. Am I to be excluded from the club?

Because I thought - and still think - that three pounds of sugar into five gallons of water wouldn't give a very high yield. Seems I was correct, and your methodology description following made me think 'deary me', where have we failed.



As for your further comments, I don't see any reference to hilarity in any of the posts you receieved, in fact all have been quite helpfull, however if you wish to feel like an eight year old, visualising folk rolling all over the floor, backslapping, and feeliing like an idiot - especially since you have read thousands of pages - there's nothing that I or anyone else in the forum can do for that. No I lie, there is at least one, but as it's his profession you would have to make an appointment and pay.

Where in gods name did anyone mention you being "excluded from the club"

I personally think that we have been quite helpful, but thats just me.

blanik


EDIT: I see that this thread has been sorted out. Thanks WD

[Cackalacky]

OK, last question, then I'm putting this thing to bed. Is it necessary to have a heating pad going during distillation? I have the washes at a very cozy 85 degrees but it seems like an awful lot of energy to put into it. Can I just let them swing with the temperature fluctuations in my crawlspace?

[LWTCS]

Is it necessary to have a heating pad going during distillation?

Dude. Get it together.

Your all backwards. Walk it off now. Walk it off.

[rednose]

haha, you made me laugh Larry, thanks for that.

He means fermentation not distillation, I'm almost sure, lol.

Is it necessary to have a heating pad going during distillation?

Dude. Get it together.

Your all backwards. Walk it off now. Walk it off.

[LWTCS]

He means fermentation not distillation, I'm almost sure, lol.

Agreed.

[Dnderhead]

first yeast will work 60-90f (15-33c) at the lower end they work slow, at the upper they work faster but can produce off flavors, their very happy at 75f (24c)
they will work even at lower than 60(15c) but not recommended as it will take forever, and not above 110f (43c) that is where they "cook"
(your heating pad is most likely 15-20w about as much as a night light)

[Cackalacky]

Geez, I can't seem to get this writing thing down. Yes, thanks, I meant fermentation.

Walking it off...

Too many days in boiling hot attics is cooking my brain.

[LWTCS]

U a ductman?

[Whitedog]

Whats the average ambient temperature where your primary fermenter is located? What is the temperature swing there also?

[Cackalacky]

U a ductman?

And then some.

[Cackalacky]

Whats the average ambient temperature where your primary fermenter is located? What is the temperature swing there also?

WD, it's a vented crawlspace under the house. It never goes above 70F these days, though it'll swing down to the 40's at night. Seems a bit chilly for a good ferment to me.

See, I'm learning! At least to go back and double check my word choices...

[Whitedog]

Yeah, if it swings that low I would probably use a belt... you may be able to turn it off during the hotter parts of the day, maybe put it on a timer... I would just let it run myself... WD