rum spirit run dunder

[raybren]

Hey all,
Do any of you do anything with your rum spirit run dunder or do you just throw it out? It doesn't seem like it should have that much alcohol in it to be worth saving and running again, and the only reason i can think to save it is for flavor reasons, like the dunder from the stripping runs. Planning on dumping it out tomorrow unless I'm missing something. Its just bothered me the last couple times i was pouring it out.

Raybren

[LWTCS]

No no no don't toss it.
Save it to add back to your forthcoming ferments.

This will add that familiar rum profile.

Some of us even have dunder pits started where we in fact are trying to cultivate mold to further enhance those proper rum notes.

[kiwistiller]

You caught that he was talking about the SPIRIT run dunder right larry?

Personally, I throw it out.

[HookLine]

You caught that he was talking about the SPIRIT run dunder right larry?

Personally, I throw it out.

Same here.

Only keep the backset (dunder) from the low wines run. Also, if you have much excess dunder and some spare neutral*, throw them together and do a low wines run. It will extract a bunch more flavour from the dunder. Add these low wines to the next rum spirit run. Throw out the spent dunder.

(*If you don't have any neutral, then just do a plain sugar ferment in the dunder. Check the pH, can be quite low in dunder.)

[Slow & Steady]

I planning on doing the re-run with dunder pit and clean spirit... I'm giving my Dunder pit time to develop... it has been moldy looking for about three months... as Dunder-Pits are new to me I'm not sure how long I need to let it funk.

S&S

[LWTCS]

Oh I see what he means.
At present I get 82-83 on single runs from my pot still hybrid. So yes, I'm talking about a single/strip.

[raybren]

Thanks for the info. On dunder pits, do you use specific strains of mold, or do you just leave it open and let whatever grows grow? Sounds pretty interesting, I might have to give it a try.

[Slow & Steady]

Thanks for the info. On dunder pits, do you use specific strains of mold, or do you just leave it open and let whatever grows grow? Sounds pretty interesting, I might have to give it a try.

The mold that I have caught is wild... just from what is in the air... but there are strains that the commercial rum producers have selected for their superior nose. I won't know if what I captured is good until I do a distillation from my dunder-pit. With my luck my dunder-pit distillate will likely be chartreuse and smell like Monkey Butt.

S&S

[Barney Fife]

For sure save your Dunder! If there's 'magic' to great rum, that is it. While I haven't delved into the dark world of dunder pits and mold, it is only because I'm not quite in the tropics and am worried that the wrong bacteria/fungi may take hold, or I'll attract some snakes.... Yeah, I have a dislike for snakes! <lol>

But I do re-use -all- my dunder in the following wash. Some will suggest 50%, some more, some less, but for whatever reason (my local water??) I can re-use 100% of my dunder. I let it cool a bit, dump it into a bucket or two, add sugar and/or molasses to dissolve, and when cooled, add this back to the yeast5 cake I left ihn the bottom of the fermenter, and off she goes again.....

[tinboat]

just wondering ..... neutral strip mixed with rum dunder. any reason not to? any reason to do it?

[LWTCS]

just wondering ..... neutral strip mixed with rum dunder. any reason not to? any reason to do it?

Wondering about charging the first thumper stage on the thump tower too.

maybe dunder/water/water
Or dunder/molassas/water
or low wines/dunder/molassas

Or........for christ sake

[Barney Fife]

just wondering ..... neutral strip mixed with rum dunder. any reason not to? any reason to do it?

Yup, that works, but you ends up with a "light" rum. It's a good way to get the last goodness from a run of rums and dunder that's reached its usable end.

Eldubya, I can't provide direct experience, but I have to wonder if charging the first thumper with the deep tails(IE: rum oils) of the previous run might not be a perfect use for these? Lotsa goodness, flavorwise, there!

[trial&error]

what is dunder? whats in the boiler after the run?

[Barney Fife]

You got it.

[trial&error]

if all the yeast is dead, and its not fermenting, and the ABV is really low then why do it??

when whiskey guys say they are on there XXX generation is this the same thing?

[LWTCS]

Yes T n E. Similar concept to sour mash.

Its about installing those familiar rum notes deeper into your likker.

My whitedog rum is rather unassuming till the third generation I'd say. By reclaiming and adding back we are installing the familiar rum profile.

[trial&error]

Yes T n E. Similar concept to sour mash.

Its about installing those familiar rum notes deeper into your likker.

My whitedog rum is rather unassuming till the third generation I'd say. By reclaiming and adding back we are installing the familiar rum profile.

so you put all your dunder in the boiler with your wash or in your ferment? all of the dunder, part? with said mold or do you scrap off the mold for the run

[raybren]

so you put all your dunder in the boiler with your wash or in your ferment? all of the dunder, part? with said mold or do you scrap off the mold for the run

I put dunder into my wash when i'm mixing the molasses and water together. I generally use 1/3 to 1/2 the total volume of my wash in dunder. I've only had mold on my dunder once, before I had heard about trying to get it, and I just pulled it out before I added it to the wash because it was fairly easy to do. The PUGI-rum thread under the tried and true section discusses dunder extensively. Hope that helps you out.

Raybren

[LWTCS]

I fly by the seat of my pants most of the time. I ain't much for note takin but I do try and pay attention.

I prolly go with a 25 % to 35% total volume water to dunder at present.

[blanikdog]

I fly by the seat of my pants most of the time. I ain't much for note takin but I do try and pay attention.

I prolly go with a 25 % to 35% total volume water to dunder at present.

I tend to go this way too, Larry.

blanik

[HookLine]

I use 30-50% dunder in the ferment.

[Barney Fife]

100% dunder re-use here....

if all the yeast is dead,

Don't let your yeast die! They, too, get better with the generations. When I charge the still, I leave the yeast behind, in the fermenting bucket, add a quart or so of lukewarm water and a spoonful of sugar, and give it a good shaking to add air. This keeps the yeast happy as all get up while I do the run, and they're just begging for some new sugar and molasses(though I may not add molasses every time; if the dunder is still full-flavored, it doesn't need more molasses), which I'll add to the hot dunder and add back to the fermenter when cool enough not to kill the yeast. Some of my rum yeast is now going on 3 years old! Even if you take a vacation from rum making for a few months, the yeast will keep well in a closed container with just a pinch of sugar every now and again to wake 'em back up. Don't know about rums made with blackstrap, but with fancy molasses, the dunder smells so great there's no way I'd leave any of it out! Seems to get better the more runs I put on it.

[trial&error]

100% dunder re-use here....

if all the yeast is dead,

Don't let your yeast die! They, too, get better with the generations. When I charge the still, I leave the yeast behind, in the fermenting bucket, add a quart or so of lukewarm water and a spoonful of sugar, and give it a good shaking to add air. This keeps the yeast happy as all get up while I do the run, and they're just begging for some new sugar and molasses(though I may not add molasses every time; if the dunder is still full-flavored, it doesn't need more molasses), which I'll add to the hot dunder and add back to the fermenter when cool enough not to kill the yeast. Some of my rum yeast is now going on 3 years old! Even if you take a vacation from rum making for a few months, the yeast will keep well in a closed container with just a pinch of sugar every now and again to wake 'em back up. Don't know about rums made with blackstrap, but with fancy molasses, the dunder smells so great there's no way I'd leave any of it out! Seems to get better the more runs I put on it.

ok ok ok, wait back the truck up.........
how are you separating the yeast from your wash? the specific gravity of alcohol cause them to sink to the bottom? I was under the impression that the yeast pretty much die off when the ABV get to high ~15-18% or if you run out of sugars and do the run they are killed off by boiling them for 5+ hours......

[LWTCS]

Most round here don't shoot for that kind of ABV firstly.

Siphon the wash down to the top of the trub with a cane.

Do all of your inversion prior so temps don't kill your yeast. Or boil (stir lots so ya don't scorch it) your previous trub for nutrients for the forthcoming ferment.

I do the later as yeast is cheap but the first method is on the list too.

[Barney Fife]

I don't save my yeast to save money, but rather, because they become better! The weaker yeast die off, and the ones that survive are better adapted to the rum, and every generation of yeast gets better and better acclimated at my wash's ingredients.

[trial&error]

I don't save my yeast to save money, but rather, because they become better! The weaker yeast die off, and the ones that survive are better adapted to the rum, and every generation of yeast gets better and better acclimated at my wash's ingredients.

this is what i was driving at by asking.

i've been reading up on "breading" yeast, so i could get a fast fermenting yeast, that has a high tolerance higher ABV washes, and better tastes.

[blind drunk]

i've been reading up on "breading" yeast, so i could get a fast fermenting yeast, that has a high tolerance higher ABV washes, and better tastes.

and the more you recycle the yeast the better able it is to ferment in a lower ph environment. bd.

[Slow & Steady]

I just finished doing a smell test on ten separate gallons of rum dunder that I let mold/age/whatever all spring and summer. Most smelled of molasses and mold but one of the ten had a smell of pineapple rum, very pleasing to the nose. I poured three quarts of that into my still and added three quarts of heads and tails and rumoils and I'm distilling it now. Very pleasent smell in the stillin shed. I just made the heads cut so I will see what the hearts are like in the next hour or so. Here's to high hopes.

S&S

[Slow & Steady]

Well to be completely honest the great smell that was in the dunder didn't come across with the distilate... the smell was in the air during distilation but not in the product... not in the concentration that would have made a great improvement in my rum making. It has been a week and I have tested the distilate for aroma and it is still heavy on the molasses smell and light on the rum smell... CRAP!

I may never become much of a fine rum maker

S&S

[LWTCS]

Two things Slow & Steady.
1. How have you been? Wish you'd come round more.
2. Bet your being too critical.

Put it to sleep for a moth and check on it.

Lets not forget all them rums that get the "fine rum" distinction are a bit older than a week or two.
Cheers
Larry